What about Baptism?

Now lets examine the Philipian jailer account.

Acts 16:27 And the keeper of the prison, awaking from sleep and seeing the prison doors open, supposing the prisoners had fled, drew his sword and was about to kill himself.

28 But Paul called with a loud voice, saying, "Do yourself no harm, for we are all here."

29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas.

30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Now this is where the faith only people stop. They will say see all you have to do is belive to be saved. We know from other scriptures that belief by itself  will not save you and what we have recoreded here is not mere belife alone. You would have to assert that one could be saved without repenting or confessing as well. The word belive here is being used in a manner that represents the whole. If you want to take this verse to the extreme you could just as easily say that a person just has to believe on Jesus and his or her entire family would be saved. That is their family members could be saved by one person beliving in God. Thats why we must not stop here we must continue on reading to see what was involved in this beliving on the lord Jesus Christ.

32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.

Now we see the rest of the story. Here they teach them and speak the words that they need to know to be saved. See also Acts 11:14. So they tell them the good news.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed <I>their </I>stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.

Now picture it in the middle of the night and his family has heard the good news and have received it just like those in acts 2:41 and they were IMMEDIATELY water baptized. If water baptism is not important to salvation why did they get water baptized in the middle of the night after hearing the words they needed to be saved by? Why is everyone is such a hurry in all the accounts to be water baptized if water baptism is not part of salvation?

34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

First off notice that they rejoiced after they were water baptized. 2nd notice it says "having belived in God". Again, this water baptism that he and his family submitted to was part of this believing in God. Once again it can be clearly seen that they heard the word and received and just like all the others that received the good news they were water baptized having their sins washed away.

Scott I have answered and dealt with every single arguement you have made and the others have made. If I have missed something I apologize becaue I have tried to get to everything. However, my arguements contrary to your statement have not been dealt with. I am refering to my latest ones and not some of the ones that you have tried to refute. I still want to keep the thread focused on the baptism issue even though you have asked me about 3 new subjects. However I just uploaded a some articles for you to read regarding these 3 subjects.

1. Lords Supper (I wrote this one) http://www.ardmoreweb.com/christ/lords%20supper.htm

2.Musical Instruments (I wrote this one as well and its short)http://www.ardmoreweb.com/christ/ccmusic.htm

3. Womens Role in the Church. (Pretty long article but well worth the read, I did not write this one)http://www.ardmoreweb.com/christ/womenrole.htm

and also http://www.christiancourier.com/archives/womensRole.htm

If you want to discuss these topics further please let me know and we will start a new thread for them instead of doing it in here.

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Ben I have not one time to my knowledge ignored or failed to respond to one of your arguements even when you bring up the sameones over and over and over again which I rufute and rufute and refute again. I appluade you for at least attempting to answer some of my arguements I made. I must say you answer were very weak and sometimes you did'nt really even give an answer you just kind threw some words down. I will point all this out in due time. First I want to keep painting the picture I have started useing the whole bible showing clear passages that teach clearly what I have been proclaiming all along. Then I will tie them all together and use the bible itself to clearly and logicly expose your misunderstanding of the scriptures.

Now I want to show another reason why people are not saved by faith alone but that one must be baptized.

After the death of Stephen, a persecution arose against the church, and the disciples were scattered widely. Some of them went to Antioch, in Syria, “preaching the Lord Jesus” (Acts 11:20). Luke informs us that “the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number that believed turned unto the Lord”

21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number believed and turned to the Lord.
22 Then news of these things came to the ears of the church in Jerusalem, and they sent out Barnabas to go as far as Antioch.
23 When he came and had seen the grace of God, he was glad, and encouraged them all that with purpose of heart they should continue with the Lord.
24 For he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were added to the Lord.

Of special interest here are the terms “believed” and “turned.” “Turned unto the Lord” later becomes the equivalent of “added unto the Lord”&nbsp;Certainly one is not saved until he is “added” to the Lord (Acts 2:47).

The word “turned”&nbsp;is the leading verb of the sentence. “Believed” is a participle in the aorist tense. In New Testament Greek, there is a rule which suggests that an aorist participle reflects action that transpires <B>prior</B> to that of the leading verb (J.G. Machen, <B>New Testament Greek for Beginners,</B> pp. 116-7). The passage might thus be paraphrased in this fashion: “...a great number, having already believed, turned to the Lord....” Thus, clearly, “turning” to the Lord, or being “added” to the Lord, does not occur at the moment one believes. Rather, “turning” occurs subsequent to “believing.” So clearly one does not turn to the lord simply by believing.

Second, lets look at the following verse.

Acts 26:20 "but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and <I>then </I>to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

Again, the word of God makes it clear that turning to God is somthing in addition to merely repenting. Both faith and repentence are preliminary to turning to the lord. Just as a side note on the last part of this verse shows that a penitent life is characterized by doing (present tense- continueously doing) works. The idea that a person can repent, yet continue in his wrongful conduct, is absoultly false.

When does one actually turn to God?

We can find the answer by comparing Acts 2:38 with Acts 3:19.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that so there may come seasons of refreshing from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 2:38&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Acts 3:19
Repent&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Repent
Be Baptized&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Turn Again
Remission of Sins&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sins Blotted Out
Gift of the Holy Spirit&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Seasons of refreshing

Now we see clearly that Peter was preaching the&nbsp;same message here in acts 3:19 as in acts 2:38. He tells them to repent, which involves turning from your iniquities and to turn again, so their sins may be blotted out. The word "turn" (epistrepho , an active verb which corresponds&nbsp; to be baptized in acts 2:38) indicates there is something to be done after repentance.&nbsp; There is an overt act following repentance -- immersion -- with which all who choose to complete their obedience unto Christ comply. The baptism here in acts 2:38 is water baptism and not HS baptism so you can't say this is HS baptism here.

Clearly, one does not enter the state of salvation until he has obeyed the Lord's command to be immeresed. The above passages demostrate that one does not turn to the Lord upon the basis of faith alone, or even penitent faith, instead his obedience must be completed in yielding to the command to be baptized. (Acts 2:38, Rom 6:4, Gal 3:27, Acts 22:16, 1Cor 12:13, Mk 16:16...etc)

Next in this series I will deal with another favorite passage the faith only people like to use where Paul states that God did not send him to baptize in 1Cor 1.

Don't worry Ben&nbsp; I still have'nt forgotton all the time you spent posting your responses which I have already answered in the past but I will do it again. And you should start seeing a pattern as I have been working on these different accounts using the whole bible and not focusing in on the same few verse that you keep holding on to for dear life. My hope is to show you from the rest of this passages I have been talking about that clearly my view is taught by the bible and all these passages shed light on your few passages that you misunderstand. I am getting very close to wrapping up so just hang on.


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1 CORINTHIANS 1:12-17
&nbsp;This passage proves beyond doubt that baptism is necessary in order to be saved. It has often been overlooked, however, as a key to proving its necessity.
&nbsp;In verse 13 Paul set down an undeniable truth. He mentions two things that are necessary to belong to Paul, Cephas, Apollos, or Christ. (1) That person must have been crucified for you; (2) you must have been baptized in the name of that person.
&nbsp;Paul said, "Was Paul crucified for you?" In other words, was Paul crucified so you could be forgiven of your sins? Secondly, "Were you baptized in the name of Paul?" "In the name of" in this passage means that a person baptized in someone's name assigns them to that person. Thus, if any were baptized in the name of Paul they were assigned the name of Paul. They would become "of Paul." This is where the proof resides. In order to be assigned to Christ, a person must be baptized "in the name of" Christ. Gal. 3:27 makes it clear that "As many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." If a person belongs to Christ, Christ was crucified for him, and he must also have been baptized into Him.
&nbsp;Notice further that Paul was thankful that he didn't baptize many people. The reason was because he feared that some may say they had been baptized in his own name. Again, this overwhelmingly affirms that one must be baptized in the name of Christ to be "of Christ!"
&nbsp;Some will argue that Paul was saying that baptism wasn't important when he said, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." (V17). This simply is not true. Again, Paul was thankful he did not baptize many because of his fear that some would say they were "of" him.
&nbsp;Paul would have been disregarding Christs' clear command to "Go and teach all nations, baptizing them ...." (Mat. 28:19). Paul was either disregarding this explicit instruction given by Jesus, or he must have not meant that baptism was not important. Further, if "Christ sent me not to baptize" means that Paul was forbidden to baptize, then he disobeyed Jesus, because he says that he did baptize Crispus and Gaius.
&nbsp;The word "sent" (Greek, APESTALEV) involves the meaning of "made me an apostle." Jesus made Paul an apostle primarily to preach. Anyone can baptize, but only a select few had the privilege to be an apostle of Christ.
&nbsp;It would be impossible for Paul to mean that baptism was not important. He was baptized himself (Ac. 22:16). He emphasized that baptism was a burial; (Rom. 6:3-5; Col. 2:12); he said that it cloths a person with Christ (Gal. 3:27); and that it put's a person into the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13).
&nbsp;Some try to put the gospel at opposite ends with baptism. In other words, some say that baptism is not a part of the gospel of Christ. Jesus said, however, "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel, he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..." (Mk. 16:16). Clearly Jesus said that baptism is a part of the gospel. If baptism is not a part of the gospel then Peter, John, Paul, and Phillip were all preaching something other than what Jesus commanded them to preach. Phillip "preached unto him Jesus" (Ac. 8:35) yet the Eunuch somehow learned that he needed to be baptized. Peter cried, "Repent and be baptized..." in response to the Jews question, "What shall we do?" (Ac. 2:37-38). Clearly baptism is a part of the gospel of Christ. And this being so, those who don't obey the gospel will have vengeance taken upon them at Christs' second coming (2 Thess. 1:7-9).

If you would like read an article on this section of scripture here you go. http://www.christiancourier.com/questions/gospelBaptismQuestion.htm