What about Baptism?

[cougan]

I'm afraid he does NOT. Cougan believes "salvation is by faith, AND waterbaptism". Cougan asserts that it is the ACT of beng waterbaptized that achieves salvation---it is the WATER ITSELF that accomplishes the "remission of sins", the "burying with Christ", the "washing away and repentance of sins". Scripture after Scripture have demonstrated that it is the NAME OF JESUS that does the washing, not the WATER. Cougan asserts that Cornelius' family/friends were filled with the Spirit, BEFORE believing/salvation---Peter clearly disputes that in Acts11:17. They were SAVED---doesn't matter how distateful you find the verse, we cannot change what Peter said.

Dont misrepresent me Ben. I have never said it is the water itself that accomplishes the remission of sins. I do belive that we are saved by faith just not Faith ALONE. Grace, faith, repentence, confessing Jesus as Lord and being water baptized working together is what puts you into Christ. Once you get into Christ you must be faithful until death to remain in a saved condition. It as the point of Baptism in water the final step that puts you into Christ having you sins washed away by the Blood of Jesus Christ Rev 1:5. The water is not magical but it is where God washes away our sins and we know this because of our faith in the operation of God. Col 2:12-13. I have already clearly showed this in my previous posts and no where do I hint at saying the water itself washes away the sins.

Thats like saying that Naamen when he obeyed and dipped himself 7 times in the river that the water is what cured his leporsey. NO it was his obedience to God and the water was the vessel or the place the healing of leporsy took place by the operation of God.

Now why dont you focus on the post that I made earlier and answer the questions I posed. If you deal with them honestly you cant help but see the truth of the matter.

Cougan

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by FluviusNeckar
You might note the Catholic teaching is consistent with what you describe as CoC teaching.

No.

Any CoC member will tell you ALL Catholics and ALL Protestant denomination members, who have died as members of those churches, ARE NOW BURNING IN HELL. ALL.

 

[sierraf]

Originally posted by Auntie
No.

Any CoC member will tell you ALL Catholics and ALL Protestant denomination members, who have died as members of those churches, ARE NOW BURNING IN HELL. ALL.

 

sierraf = Church of Christ member who would never tell ANYONE that. ANYONE.

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by sierraf
 

sierraf = Church of Christ member who would never tell ANYONE that. ANYONE.

So you believe Catholics, who have died, have a chance of being in Heaven?

And you believe Baptists, who have died, have a chance of being in Heaven?

 

[sierraf]

I believe that all Christians are commanded to spread the gospel (the scriptures, the word of God) , and God will be all of mankinds judge.

John 8:9 teaches that when we hear God's word we are convicted by our conscience. I can't convict anyone. I do however have a great deal of respect and admiration for all people who are sincerely trying to rightly divide the word of truth.

God did not give me the right to tell anyone they are going to "hell". I'm thankful for that I might add. And anyway it really would not matter to God or anyone's salvation what I thought.

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by sierraf

God did not give me the right to tell anyone they are going to "hell". I'm thankful for that I might add. And anyway it really would not matter to God or anyone's salvation what I thought.

There are, of course, different kinds of Churches of Christ. But the one I was raised in taught that only people who belonged to the CoC had any chance of salvation. If your CoC teaches differently, then I am glad to know that. My CoC also taught, btw, that the Catholic Church is the anti-Christ. So I was raised with some garbage teaching, which I am thankful to have overcome.


Just wondering, do you believe YOU could be a member of the Baptist Church and still be saved? In other words, if there was NO CoC in your community, no CoC for hundreds of miles, would you attend and join a Baptist or Methodist Church? (Or any other church?)

 

[sierraf]

I would worship God with any group of believer's who used the scriptures for their only authority, and only the scriptures.

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by sierraf
I believe that all Christians are commanded to spread the gospel (the scriptures, the word of God) , and God will be all of mankinds judge.

John 8:9 teaches that when we hear God's word we are convicted by our conscience. I can't convict anyone. I do however have a great deal of respect and admiration for all people who are sincerely trying to rightly divide the word of truth.

God did not give me the right to tell anyone they are going to "hell". I'm thankful for that I might add. And anyway it really would not matter to God or anyone's salvation what I thought.

hmmm.......I just realized, you didn't answer my questions.

So I will ask them again:

So you believe Catholics, who have died, have a chance of being in Heaven?

And you believe Baptists, who have died, have a chance of being in Heaven?

In other words, if a Catholic faithfully follows their beliefs, and dies as a Catholic, do YOU believe the Bible teaches they are saved?

 

[sierraf]

I belive that there are explicit things given to us in scripture that we must do in order to be saved.

The only name that I believe is important is the name Christian. The Church is the body of Christ. The believers who have put on Christ. I honestly, do not speak as to whether one calls himself something other than a Christian.

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by sierraf
I belive that there are explicit things given to us in scripture that we must do in order to be saved.

The only name that I believe is important is the name Christian. The Church is the body of Christ. The believers who have put on Christ. I honestly, do not speak as to whether one calls himself something other than a Christian.

.....Still not answering my questions, oh well. I expected as much, when you didn't answer me the first time.

 

[sierraf]

I had another thought. I guess the best way to answer your question is that if I am saved, it is not because I worship at a building that has the name out side the door "Church of Christ".

 

[sierraf]

Originally posted by Auntie
hmmm.......I just realized, you didn't answer my questions.

So I will ask them again:

So you believe Catholics, who have died, have a chance of being in Heaven?

And you believe Baptists, who have died, have a chance of being in Heaven?

In other words, if a Catholic faithfully follows their beliefs, and dies as a Catholic, do YOU believe the Bible teaches they are saved?

 

Ok. OK. Anyone who has followed the scripture, doing what God wants of us has a chance of going to heaven. No matter what sign is on the door. Its the name that is on their heart that is important.

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by sierraf
I had another thought. I guess the best way to answer your question is that if I am saved, it is not because I worship at a building that has the name out side the door "Church of Christ".

That still doesn't answer my questions, but good try.


Here ya go, pick A or B:

A--Of course there are Catholics in Heaven!

B--There are no Catholics in Heaven.

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by sierraf
 

Ok. OK. Anyone who has followed the scripture, doing what God wants of us has a chance of going to heaven. No matter what sign is on the door. Its the name that is on their heart that is important.

That's a little better. At least you didn't tell me Baptist's are "good people". I've heard that one before!

 

[sierraf]

Really in all honesty I just don't know, in my heart I have known of people who call themselves Catholic, who have done so much for mankind while they lived on this earth (ie. Mother Teresa) that it really is my hope that she has an eternal reward, I believe that she loved or Lord and Savior very much, and my small existance on this earth is so unworthy in comparison to her humble service to God's world. So I dont know can't say, but if any Catholic is not there I do not believe it will be because they were Catholic.

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by sierraf
Really in all honesty I just don't know, in my heart I have known of people who call themselves Catholic, who have done so much for mankind while they lived on this earth (ie. Mother Teresa) that it really is my hope that she has an eternal reward, I believe that she loved or Lord and Savior very much, and my small existance on this earth is so unworthy in comparison to her humble service to God's world. So I dont know can't say, but if any Catholic is not there I do not believe it will be because they were Catholic.

Thanks for an honest answer, I appreciate your reply. I love Mother Teresa, she was the best. I'm sure she's in Heaven, right now.

 

[cougan]

Auntie I see you decided to beat the horse a little yourself. Auntie I have already answered all your questions you have posed to me in another thread. My answers were similiar to what sierraf posted. We live by the word and we are judged by the word.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my
sayings, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I spake, the
same shall judge him in the last day.

Just wondering, do you believe YOU could be a member of the Baptist Church and still be saved? In other words, if there was NO CoC in your community, no CoC for hundreds of miles, would you attend and join a Baptist or Methodist Church? (Or any other church?)

Do you realize what you are doing here Auntie? Remember the words of Paul.

1Cor 1:10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and <I>that </I>there be no divisions among you, but <I>that </I>you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe's <I>household, </I>that there are contentions among you.

12 Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ."

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Do you not see the division you have made in Christ Body by makeing this anology? Here let me make it clearer. You are saying that if there is not a COC around- lets pause here for just a second. First of all there is only 1 church of christ and one belief Eph 4:4-5. When I say "1 church of Christ" I mean that there is only 1 church that christ purchased with his blood. I do not mean a building with COC written on it.&nbsp; When I say "one belief" I mean there is only suppose to be one faith and not multiply faiths because we are suppose to be in unity of one mind.

Then you ask would you JOIN or become a MEMBER of a Baptist or Methodist Church.&nbsp;Here you are dividing the body. You are saying that there is COC body, baptist body, and a Methodist body. But the bible clearly teaches that there is only 1 body. Now if I am already in that 1 body why would I want join or become a member of another body which bares a name based on their theolgy? Act 2:47 tells us that it is GOD that adds us to the one church. Now if&nbsp;went and worshiped with these people that had different names and such I would find out if their worship and teaching was bibical by comparing it to the word of God. If it is done in spirit and truth then I would worship with them. However if I could not find a bibical church I would probably try to start a group of my own or try and show that church from the bible where what they are doing is not scriptual and see if I could open their minds to the truth. It seems to baffel people when they ask me what religion I am, and I say I am a Christian. When you ask most people they will usually say something like, Im a Baptist or Methodist..etc. Again, listen to Paul:

Philippians 1:27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel,

Philippians 3:16 Nevertheless, to <I>the degree </I>that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.

It saddens me to see people hold to their traditions even if the bible shows that tradition to be wrong. I am totally amazed at how something so simple can be twisted and turned into a doctrine. Once its set on the mind of the person no matter how clear it states the oppiste in the bible they refuse to accept it. One I hear a lot is my father was this religion and his father as well so I am so I dont care what you say or&nbsp;scripture you show me&nbsp;I am staying this religion.

As far as you question are all catholics and baptist going to hell? Again, I dont know what all these people individually belived or did in their lives and it is not for me to condem them to hell that is up to God. Remember we will be judged by the word and I can tell you by the word (not of myself) that if they were not found in Christ in that 1 body then the bible would say that they are lost. Being a good person and doing good deeds doesnt mean that you are in Christ. I will end this post with the following verses.

Mat 7:21 " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'

23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

 

[Auntie]

No offense, cougan, but my posts concerned another poster, not you. He made a statement to me, and I responded to HIS statements.

 

[cougan]

I know you post was'nt to me. I hope you don't mind me responding to your post? I was just sharing my thoughts.

Cougan

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by cougan
I know you post was'nt to me. I hope you don't mind me responding to your post? I was just sharing my thoughts.

Cougan

You are certainly free to express your thoughts here, cougan. Post away!