Were the Disciples more informed than us today?

[LadyCrosstalk]

Take demons for example.

The disciples seem more equipped than we are today?

e.g.

"And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." Mark 9:29

What is "this kind"?

Some demons are more powerful than others--just as some people are more powerful than others. The Bible indicates there are various levels of those invested with Satan's power. The spiritual discipline of fasting "adds wings to our prayers". Subduing and humbling the flesh is a means of freeing human souls and spirits from demonic influence and habitation. Satan extends his influence over us through the "lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life". Fasting and prayer free us from lusts and pride.

 

[DarthNeo]

Take demons for example.

The disciples seem more equipped than we are today?

e.g.

"And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." Mark 9:29

What is "this kind"?

Yes. They were given the GIFTS to use to God's/Christ's glory. They didn't have to pray to heal someone or raise them from the dead, they merely SPOKE it and it happened (again, to God's glory, NOT their own)...

Also to have walked with Christ, to have been an APOSTLE, would definitely better equip you, IMO...

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Take demons for example.

The disciples seem more equipped than we are today?

e.g.

"And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." Mark 9:29

What is "this kind"?

The disciples knew the importance of spending time with God. That is what made them more equipped more ministry. Most today want God to do things now... when he says wait and spend time with me

 

[Tree of Life]

Take demons for example.

The disciples seem more equipped than we are today?

e.g.

"And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." Mark 9:29

What is "this kind"?

You're asking several questions at once.

Were the disciples more informed than we are today? Yes and no. No in that we have 2000 more years of being directed by the Holy Spirit in understanding the word of God. Yes in that we've got 2000 years of trying to understand their words. They personally knew the earthly Jesus and wrote the Scripture so they are certainly more informed in that sense.

Were they more equipped than we are today? They had different gifts. The disciples were given the authority to cast out demons, heal the sick, cleanse lepers, etc. They were also gifted with declaring the authoritative word of God which would be crystalized in Scripture. These were unique apostolic gifts that no one has today or since then. So they were equipped differently. You could even say "more equipped" because Paul gives apostles primacy "God has appointed first of all apostles..." (1 Cor 12).

What kind of demons couldn't be cast out except by prayer? I dunno.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

If you do not spend time with God developing that intimacy with him, you will have no power over anything.

Society today is geared towards fast everything, people even want fast relationships (speed dating).

God wants us to spend time with him and then we will see his power. Then we will be full of wisdom.

 

[DennisTate]

Take demons for example.

The disciples seem more equipped than we are today?

e.g.

"And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." Mark 9:29

What is "this kind"?

My wife knows things about exorcising demons......
that I personally have no clue about yet.........

I wrote her an e-mail back on August 8, 2000.....
She printed off my e-mail in her office and took it home......

somehow..... I think in a dream.... but I am not one hundred percent certain... she was told that I was going to be her husband.......

within two weeks she was told to fast and pray for me for 35 days.......

For four weeks for three days / week.....
she drank only fruit juices..... no solid food......

Messiah Yeshua - Jesus woke her up most mornings very early and got her to pray for me......

I was 3000 miles away basking in the most astonishing Shalom.....
peace of mind that I had ever experienced in my life.....
but especially since 1990.....
when I had began to pray about something dangerous........

I personally am more like the man from Genessaret who had the Legion.... than any other
New Testament person.........

I shall tell you some more......
but obviously form John chapter 9.... the disciples knew some things that the Bride of Messiah has forgotten......

 

[dqhall]

Take demons for example.

The disciples seem more equipped than we are today?

e.g.

"And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." Mark 9:29

What is "this kind"?

The disciples had good instruction, if not better equipment. I think part of the context for casting out this demon of seizures is missing. Someone must have been praying for help from God for this boy to be made normal and not have to worry about being involuntarily thrown into seizures that cast him into a camp fire or into the mud. The father and boy had to go to Jesus, for they believed the good reports about Jesus.

A little alcohol is good for one's health. A little too much will ruin one's health. Some people described alcohol as a demon after observing what happened to alcoholics. The cure is simple. The cure is not simple for an alcoholic who will want to argue against giving up alcohol.

Obesity is an epidemic. There are many harmful side effects of obesity. Fasting is a tried and true way to lose weight. By fasting one might make demon gluttony go away.

I suffered high blood pressure. I suffered bad side effects from blood pressure medication and needed a healthy cure. I read numerous articles indicating reducing high blood pressure requires reducing salt consumption, losing weight and exercising. In January 2017 my blood pressure improved, but I suffered mild hypertension and an unhealthy pulse pressure. One day I was led to my TV and turned on the TV to see Joel Fuhrman on PBS. He was extolling the virtues of his nutritarian diet. I read one of his books. I was so impressed, I bought two more and two by other researchers he quoted in his books. I had to switch to a no salt added nutritarian diet to get my weight into the middle of the normal range and my sodium levels low enough to lower my blood pressure. My blood pressure went from 178/90 in 2014 to 120/65 earlier this week. Did I have a demon cast out or was I healed? I changed my diet and exercised. I had to thank God for being led on a path to read books that might reduce my medical expenses.

 

[WilliamBo]

How do we identify "this kind" from another "kind"?

Hey man, I have lots of experience with having strongholds and fasting. When it says 'this kind' I think it just means a very strong stronghold... there's not a species or type of demon, it's just when someone is in really bad shape and simply 'resisting the devil' is not an option because that person is in such deep slavery to their besetting sins. I might be a little off but I feel like this is what I have learned. So by fasting, you are taking on a stronger form of spiritual warfare

 

[Blade]

You know "I am Sorry"..yes.. they were. I always loved it when reading how Peter was in jail they were praying. Angel comes sets Peter free. Peter goes home. Knocks on the door and ..there 1st thought was.. na.. its just Peters angel. Its NOT our 1st thought. For them it was nothing new. The enemy over time put allot of doubt in.

 

[jamespyles]

It is an entity that manifests both spiritually and physically.

The prayer is to defeat the spiritual aspect and the fasting is to defeat the physical aspect.

Fasting is form of disinfection, in this case, disinfecting the body.

The disciples definitely knew more because they had Jesus to explain stuff to them. What I have is a process of trial and error, see which one works.

It seems as if, even independent of Christ's teachings, people in general had a greater familiarity with demons, and at least as I read the Gospels, they seemed somewhat common.

 

[chihwahli]

You mentioned a part of the bible that tells demons are cast out of someone by prayer and fasting.

This kind , another kind?
My answer: Sick people sometimes do not know that they are sick. Many viruses manifest themselves when it's already too late. The same way, demons usually do not show themselves at all. So identifying demon kind is for lams of God almost impossible. Also impossible sometimes because their flesh is ruling over their spiritual man, that is reborn. Jesus said we need to nail our old selves to the cross. Many Christians believe that after the baptism it is enough and finished. But that is just your spiritual rebirth. The real "work" has just started. That is becoming a disciple as the 12 of our Lord Jesus.

In the bible is written about a man who used the name of Jesus to cast out demons, but demons attacked the man back, saying Jesus and Paul we know, but who are you???
This clearly states that this man is not being as the same as Jesus or His disciples. He was doing something wrong.

The way disciples are trained never changed. The disciples in the times of Jesus were not better informed that us today. The bible is written to instruct and teach. We humans changed it. The bible is very clear what we Christians are supposed to do and how.

So, go find where God's disciples are and learn it how to be a true disciple of Christ Jesus.

How do we identify "this kind" from another "kind"?

 

[Monk Brendan]

Take demons for example.

The disciples seem more equipped than we are today?

e.g.

"And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." Mark 9:29

What is "this kind"?

While Jesus walked and talked with His disciples for 3 years before He died on the Cross, and then for 40 days after, the disciples had only been discipled. They had not received the Gift of the Holy Spirit, so they were just as unable to determine how a demon should be cast out.

Jesus, in the Mark 9 quote you used above, DID have the Holy Spirit, so He could discern what was needed in this man's life.

As far as fasting, fasting makes US stronger, so when Jesus told His disciples about fasting, He meant that, in order to cast out that type of demon, WE have to be prayed up and fasting, not the subject.

 

[Monk Brendan]

How do we identify "this kind" from another "kind"?

This is discernment, and it comes through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Monk Brendan]

But why not demonology?

While I will admit that I know of such books, I will not name them. If You stay in prayer and fasting, and YOU listen to the Holy Spirit, then you won't need such books.

 

[Monk Brendan]

demonology. One we cant understand but must accept in faith?

What is this fascination that some Christians have in demons? We do not NEED TO KNOW what type of demon it is. We have to know how to defeat it, and if you are spending time in earnest prayer, and in fasting, God will show you these things. God will give you the needed tools to cast out a demon.

However, demons (acting as demons--you know, Linda Blair on a bad day) just don't come along every day. In 40 years of cooperating with Jesus, I have only seen two, and recognized them as demons.

 

[disciple1]

Take demons for example.

The disciples seem more equipped than we are today?

e.g.

"And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." Mark 9:29

What is "this kind"?

This is just to show you, you can still be a disciple.
John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
Here's some more verses to help you.
Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
2 John
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Job chapter 23 verse 12
I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Luke chapter 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Romans chapter 10
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Mark chapter 13
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
James chapter 1
25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
James chapter 4
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Isaiah chapter 45 verse 19
I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, 'Seek me in vain.' I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
Jeremiah chapter 9
24 but let the one who boasts boast about this:
that they have the understanding to know me,
that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness,
justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,”
declares the Lord.
Jeremiah chapter 5 verse 1
5 “Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem,
look around and consider,
search through her squares.
If you can find but one person
who deals honestly and seeks the truth,
I will forgive this city.

 

[chihwahli]

Prayer and fasting is only useful if that person is working and walking with the holy spirit closely.

If any person pray and fast, it will not work. Prayer and fasting enhances the spiritual power that is within you. With spiritual power Within you I mean the holy spirit. The holy spirit should be filling your body, the lords temple fully and even overrun. The bible speaks about oil that even spills out because that person is already full. So if a Christian that hardly is filled by the lord, the spiritual power is near zero. Even fasting and prayer will have zero effect. There is hardly nothing to multiply
0,00000000000000001 x 100 is still just 0,000000000000001.

When a Christian is filled soooo much unnatural things start to happen a lot more. Like Paul's handkerchiefs being able to heal the sick.

How to fill yourself with the Holy Spirit? Start dumping your thoughts about flesh: you planning things as you want. Thinking you know how everything should be done. thinking or feeling you know what love means. You don't know. There are not many people who walk and do Agape love. They even hardly know what sacrifice means.... Holy Spirit can only fill someone as He/she is starting to dump all humans ways and comes to a moment like Moses. Once he was very knowable for he was raised as an Egyptian. but he had to unlearn everything he thought he knows. He became a man dependent on God in even the most simple things, like talking.

So start saying , thinking, feeling that you do not know it all. Those are the ways of the flesh.
Only God knows all, plans all well, Loves with Agape and does everything right and holy.

I think and feel this is the very first crucial step becoming a true disciple of Christ Jesus.
Because Jesus said: I only do what I see my Father do.... see? Dependence....

Edit: Change name Abraham to Moses.

While Jesus walked and talked with His disciples for 3 years before He died on the Cross, and then for 40 days after, the disciples had only been discipled. They had not received the Gift of the Holy Spirit, so they were just as unable to determine how a demon should be cast out.

Jesus, in the Mark 9 quote you used above, DID have the Holy Spirit, so He could discern what was needed in this man's life.

As far as fasting, fasting makes US stronger, so when Jesus told His disciples about fasting, He meant that, in order to cast out that type of demon, WE have to be prayed up and fasting, not the subject.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Considering the Apostles had access to a forty day exposition of the Old Testament by Christ I think we can safely say they were more informed than we are. We should also consider they had access to the teachings of Jesus which were not written down, lived directly in his social context and in a world which time has not perfectly preserved for us.

In someways however the apostles are less informed than us in that there were theological questions they didn't address but needed to be hammered out by later generations of the church when they became issues of contention. Gnosticism is one. The Donatist controversy is another for instance. Plus Arrian/Eunomian Controversies and other later theological disputes.

The Apostles didn't address these issues directly and so could be called less informed, though I suppose they know of them where they are now.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Take demons for example.

The disciples seem more equipped than we are today?

e.g.

"And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." Mark 9:29

What is "this kind"?

The Holy Spirit gifts each with various gifts...not all have the same knowledge or wisdom though they are in the Body.
The disciples were, 12 of them, chosen apostles because they were to testify as eyewitnesses...in that respect they were more informed.

 

[cuja1]

Ok got that, it makes for some tough work with the Lord to help those oppressed by the defiant spirit.

If its His will.

I'm sure He'd prepare those He calls for such a task.

Oh and its all good brother, but I didn't realise it was you until you liked my status then. Oh! now I get it



Matthew 5:19

I was inferring to having a blemish therefor no authority in Christ to cast the "defiant kind"



I agree, one denies God. However the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders " does describe human behaviour well, I feel we just need to attach an "evil spirit" to some of the common "kinds" of behaviours.



I understand your point.

I'm happy to leave it to God as a matter of trust in Faith.

I'd prefer to distance myself from it "demonology" as it just boggles my mind having read Enoch 15

Your opinion on Book of Enoch Chapter 15?

I think it's possible that a lot of what psychology has managed to label may in fact be demons.