And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Brightfame52

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jesus told the jews he that hears his word and believes on the father escapes the condemnation,[of adam] the jews were told to search the scriptures, as their dispute meant only that they were not coming to christ to have life.

peter tells the previous non believers, they witnessed the resurrection of christ, tellng them they now see and hear what christ then received of the father, which was the gift of the holy ghost for them

this lets all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom they crucified, both Lord and Christ.


John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


John 539 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

peter then tells those jews who were not sheep, to be the betrayers and murderers, whosoever calls on the name of the lord shall be saved.


instead of the hardened heart of unbelief they had without the grace of god now shed into them, they were moved to belief in their heart, peter tells them all, repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



Acts 221 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:


Acts 232 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


Acts 236 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Those for whom Christ died shall be drawn to Him and Believe, Jn 12:32
 
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Peacemaker1

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I have no problem with those scriptures, I dont see your point in posting them.
the point is, the elect and called, is all who repent and believe, even when told you are not mine.


he jews did not believe, they were told, you are not my people and he was not their god, in the place that was told to them, they were granted belief, to be called the sons of the living god, acts 2 shows that house of israel to now know assuredly god raised christ from the dead, being known then to them to be both lord and christ, the living god.



Hosea 19 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.



Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.


John 1024 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.



Romans 925 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
 
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Peacemaker1

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Again you fail to God the Credit for one believing on Christ. God in Christ is to be Thanked for ones obeying the Truth Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Thats because God sent Christ to redeem them from sin and unbelief.
the doctrine of christ is delivered and testified to the whole world, we can thank that we see gods grace is for all who call.
 
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Brightfame52

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the point is, the elect and called, is all who repent and believe, even when told you are not mine.


he jews did not believe, they were told, you are not my people and he was not their god, in the place that was told to them, they were granted belief, to be called the sons of the living god, acts 2 shows that house of israel to now know assuredly god raised christ from the dead, being known then to them to be both lord and christ, the living god.



Hosea 19 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.



Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.


John 1024 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.



Romans 925 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
John 12:32 is saying all for whom Christ died will be given to repent and believe, thats what drawing them is, the giving them of conversion.
 
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Brightfame52

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the doctrine of christ is delivered and testified to the whole world, we can thank that we see gods grace is for all who call.
Again you fail to give God Thanks for one believing the Doctrine of the Gospel Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
 
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Peacemaker1

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the false prophets seem to have no interest in a lot of scriptures together, and always prefer to only focus on one or two, as if they prefer a dimly lit area to work in, so heres much more scripture, lets see if it helps to illuminate their area.


god gave the meek of the earth warning, to seek meekness, to be hid in the day of the lords anger.

they asked if jesus was that one to come that god warned them to seek, jesus answers how he is giving sight, hearing, mobility, and life, and sums this all up that blessed are those who are not offended in him.



Zephaniah 2:3
Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger.


Matthew 113 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?


Matthew 114 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.





jesus compares most of the people he is among, how if they hear piped music they wont dance, if they see mourning they wont be moved.

jesus showed how the people did not repent seeing his mighty works, and that they should have repented, and now were worse than sodom.

jesus answers fully he is the one to seek, for the meek of the earth to seek righteousness, to seek judgement, to seek meekness, to take his yoke upon you, and learn of him, for he is meek and lowly in heart.





Matthew 11:6
And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.


Matthew 1116 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,

17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.


Matthew 1120 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.




the meek seeking the meekness of christ, do so to be blessed to not be offended in him.

when the word is received, if no root is in someone, they will be offended in christ, when persecution because of the word comes their way.




Matthew 13:21
Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.




jesus again comparing the people hearing him, tells of some who refusing to hear, after repent, and others who didnt repent, agreed but did nothing, believing they needed no repentance. jesus answers how those who did worse than most repented, but these others even seeing the worst offenders repenting, never repented, and they became the worst offenders.




Matthew 2129 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.





jesus shows all men are indeed called to him, both good and bad gathered, which as we just saw is, those who repent, and those meek who seek meekness, and also those who seek no meekness, judgement or righteousness, who do not believe they need to likewise repent and not be offended in christ.

when no correct attire is worn, no true preparation has been made, they are thrown out, because many are called, few are chosen, most are offended, most do not seek meekness, they did not repent.




Matthew 229 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.


Matthew 2213 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.





when the end comes, jesus shows it is when many shall be offended, betraying and hating.

this is when many false prophets deceive many.

iniquity is everywhere, the love
of many goes cold.

enduring in those times, is by not being likewise offended because of the word to not be offended in christ, as you see most no longer seek meekness, judgement nor righteousness.



jesus spoke these things unto us, that we should not be offended.

of the time coming, that whosoever kills us, will think that they do God service.






Matthew 249 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.


Matthew 2410 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.


Matthew 2412 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.



John 16:1
These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.





god now commanded all men every where to repent.

because of now appointing a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he had ordained; giving assurance unto all men, in that he had raised him from the dead.




Acts 1730 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.





But people were hardened, and believed not, but spoke evil of that way before the multitude, as

the many false prophets speak to deceive many now, hardened in pride, not seeking the meekness of christ.




Acts 19:9
But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.



we are to flee the deception of satan, the antichrist pretenders in all the world now, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

to fight the good fight of faith, to lay hold on eternal life, whereunto we are also called,


to lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, to receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save our souls. the words of the warned deceivers, saves us from living.

the lord who died for us all, is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.





1 Timothy 611 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.


James 1:21
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.


2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.




the final message in the words able to save our souls, is to hear the counsel of christ, to be clothed in white clothing, to not be as the bad who have no wedding garment, no repentance, no true sincere preparation in the love, righteousness, judgement and meekness of the saviour of all men who died for all men, our lord jesus christ.

the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands.

men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds





Revelation 3:18
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Revelation 9:20
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:


Revelation 16:9
And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.


Revelation 16:11
And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
 
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Peacemaker1

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......thats what drawing them is, the giving them of conversion.......





looking in scripture wht is convert, its these three explaining verses, that the perfect law of the lord converts the soul, which is the teaching of transgressors, [all previously transgressed in the law of moses] gods ways, which is zion redeemed with judgement, her converts with righteousness.






Psalm 19:7
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 51:13
Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Isaiah 1:27
Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.





the law is all fulfilled in what judgement christ our lord fulfilled, loving us as himself.



Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.





sinners shall be converted unto god, is believing on jesus, when transgressors are taught his ways, of righteousness to believe the ways of the lord are life, that god raised up jesus our lord again from the dead, with the heart man believes unto righteousness.


Psalm 16:11
Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Proverbs 12:28
In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.


ohn 16/9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.


Romans 108 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto rig
 
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Peacemaker1

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peter exhorts the people of israel to repent and be converted, to receive jesus, who had been preached to them. peter tells them of the covenant, of what god had spoken to them by all the prophets, that in the seed of abraham, all people of the earth would be blessed. peter tells the people of israel, god who had raised up his son, sent him to bless them, first, turning them all, every one, from their iniquities.[in believing that christ died for everyones sins. [ the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. ]



Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.



acts 319 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.



Acts 325 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
 
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......thats what drawing them is, the giving them of conversion.......





looking in scripture wht is convert, its these three explaining verses, that the perfect law of the lord converts the soul, which is the teaching of transgressors, [all previously transgressed in the law of moses] gods ways, which is zion redeemed with judgement, her converts with righteousness.






Psalm 19:7
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 51:13
Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Isaiah 1:27
Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.





the law is all fulfilled in what judgement christ our lord fulfilled, loving us as himself.



Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.





sinners shall be converted unto god, is believing on jesus, when transgressors are taught his ways, of righteousness to believe the ways of the lord are life, that god raised up jesus our lord again from the dead, with the heart man believes unto righteousness.


Psalm 16:11
Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Proverbs 12:28
In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.


ohn 16/9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.


Romans 108 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto rig
John 12:32 Jesus declares that His Death results in converting all for whom He was lifted up in behalf of.
 
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John Mullally

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Again you fail to God the Credit for one believing on Christ. God in Christ is to be Thanked for ones obeying the Truth Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Thats because God sent Christ to redeem them from sin and unbelief.
Christ's atonement which is provided for all (1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:4, Romans 5:18) is received through faith. There is no scripture that states that God puppets our faith, actions, and responses.

Jesus took upon Himself the “sin of the world,” (John 1:29), His atonement is therefore available to all, though is only applied whenever people place their faith in Him, just like His illustration at John 3:14-15 of Numbers 21:6-9 shows. Before a person looked upon the serpent on a standard, was anyone healed? Before a person believes in Jesus, is anyone saved? God Himself established the condition, but Calvinists, like yourself, seek to revise God’s condition to imply that the atonement itself completes a transaction, in which the atonement itself does something to particular "elect" individuals which produces faith.
 
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John Mullally

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Good day,

Keep reading....

Joh 12:33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.

In Him,

Bill
Stop ignoring...

John 12:33, does not cancel the fact that post-Calvary Christ draws all people to himself which was stated in John 12:32. Re-read John 12:32 as it is translated from all major English translations.
 
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Brightfame52

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Christ's atonement which is provided for all (1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:4, Romans 5:18) is received through faith. There is no scripture that states that God puppets our faith, actions, and responses.

Jesus took upon Himself the “sin of the world,” (John 1:29), His atonement is therefore available to all, though is only applied whenever people place their faith in Him, just like His illustration at John 3:14-15 of Numbers 21:6-9 shows. Before a person looked upon the serpent on a standard, was anyone healed? Before a person believes in Jesus, is anyone saved? God Himself established the condition, but Calvinists, like yourself, seek to revise God’s condition to imply that the atonement itself completes a transaction, in which the atonement itself does something to particular "elect" individuals which produces faith.
You still dont get it, Christs death converts all for whom He died into His followers, believers Jn 12:32-33

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
 
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Stop ignoring...

John 12:33, does not cancel the fact that post-Calvary Christ draws all people to himself which was stated in John 12:32. Re-read John 12:32 as it is translated from all major English translations.
Keep reading....

He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.
 
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John Mullally

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Keep reading....

He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.
This is just misdirection.

Yes John 12:32 shows the kind of death Christ was going to die - I never said otherwise, but that fact is superfluous - it adds no value for or against any arguments being made on this thread. Imagine this - there is other information packed into that verse. In regards to my argument, the germane fact to be drawn from John 12:32 is that post-Calvary, Christ draws all people to himself.

John 12:31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.​

Similarly, John 3:14-15 states: “‘As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.’” It’s not until Jesus is “lifted up”—speaking of Calvary—that He draws all men to Himself, and how does He do it? It’s through the global proclamation of the gospel: “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.” (Mark 16:15)
 
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