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What is the gospel according to your view?You are still not understanding The Gospel. You have taken your definition of works too far. The only Scripture writer that you can cite to support your arguments is Paul. AND, Paul says as much that contrasts what you are claiming as he says that supports what you are claiming. I understand you try to repackage those things as a battle of natures. But, again that is not what Paul is talking about.
"Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him." (Romans 6:8) Based on what Paul said, not what you have been told or determined yourself, if you didn't die with Christ, can you expect to live with Him?
"Know you not, that to whom you yield your servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Romans 6:16)
"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if you live after the flesh, you shall die; but if you through the Spirit do mortify (put to death) the deeds of the body, you shall live. For as many who are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God." (Rom 8:12-14)
It isn't about following the Law of Moses. It is about walking in a relationship with God and if you are really walking in a relationship with God, you won't obey the flesh. Paul is very consistent. He says virtually the same thing in Galatians.
Salvation is a life working process which starts as Baptism and continues throughout our lives. Bad works come from lack of salvation and sin.I'm not familiar with your interpretation. Good works come from a new nature in the new birth. Just as bad works come from a depraved nature without trying.
Salvation happens in the new birth, followed by faith in Christ and good works of appreciation and love for him.Salvation is a life working process which starts as Baptism and continues throughout our lives. Bad works come from lack of salvation and sin.
You're making stuff up.“He who believes” in Christ equates to “he who eats this bread” because the result is the same, eternal life. The parallel is also found between verses 40 and 54
What is the gospel according to your view?
Okay so this has always confused me. Maybe someone here can answer my question satisfactorily. In Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul says that wee are saved by faith and not by works. Paul even takes it a step further in Romans 4:5 and says that a person who doesn't work AT ALL. That their faith will be counted for righteousness.
Yet in Matthew 25:31-46 Jesus sends people who do works into heaven and people who don't do works to hell. But wait a minute! Didn't Paul just say that a man who has no works will still go to heaven? Also in James 2:14-26 James says that faith without works is a dead faith. Why the contradiction in the Bible? Wasn't Paul aware that if we had no works that we wouldn't go to heaven? I'm not calling Paul a heretic but I'm calling him wrong. Because what he said doesn't match up with what Jesus says in Matthew 25:31-46! Or... Does it???
This is good if we let it lay. But many think we must decide or choose to believe thereby turning grace into law. The truth is, if you decide to believe it is because you already believe (are saved) or you wouldn't decide to believe. But many think their choosing saved them and they trust in themselves instead of Christ for salvation.In summary, the Good News is this:
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Is a cat a cat because it acts like one? Or does it act like a cat because it is one? You think acting like a Christian makes a person a Christian.Salvation is a life working process which starts as Baptism and continues throughout our lives. Bad works come from lack of salvation and sin.
Yes it does. Thank you.
Hello, yes it was a serious question and I got satisfactory answers from it. Thanks all for the answers.
Hmm you're right. He should have said works of the Law in Romans 4:5 too because many pastors and Christians are interpreting it as works.
Oh, absolutely. I agree with what you wrote. But are we back at the conversation now of whether we choose God or He chooses us, or both?Emli, I agree with much of the false outcomes you have spoken of; and what you wrote in total is definitely making me think. But, when you say things like "A lot of people have been baptized but don't have saving faith, because of false doctrines".... I agree with the evidence you cited, but I struggle with the reason you give in the cause and effect argument.
When people don't "surrender their lives," does it have anything to do with the false doctrine of the particular church or even their own false doctrines about God? I submit that God can break the lies off those who are willing to have the lies broken off them, regardless of the church or individual doctrine they have. For example:
If false doctrine were the eliminator, God could have never woken me up, because I didn't even believe He still did the "born-again" thing and wouldn't have been caught dead in a church that talked about being born again when He did it to me anyway.
A guy named Randy Clark, a trained southern Baptist pastor and historian, believed his Baptist indoctrination that the gifts of the Spirit were not for today and then God started doing those things through Randy Clark anyway. Then, God used that man to break the lie off me that "all healing evangelists were frauds".
Wouldn't it really be that they don't surrender, because they don't really trust Him? And, they don't really trust Him, because they don't really believe? Then, the obvious "backward planning" question is: why do some, and why don't others, really believe enough to surrender?
Okay so this has always confused me.
You're making stuff up.
Jesus is not talking about "literally" eating His flesh and drinking His blood here (cannibalism), but the reception of God’s grace by believing in Christ, as He makes abundantly clear by repeating the same truths. Compare for example the following two verses:
John 6:47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
John 6:58 - This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. "He who eats this bread will live forever."
“He who believes” in Christ equates to “he who eats this bread” because the result is the same, eternal life. The parallel is also found between verses 40 and 54:
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
“Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” (v54).
You completed redefined "baptism" as a word while creating connections between scriptural passages which are as nonsensical as they are artificial. That's not exegesis, bro, that's just nonsense.Why would you say that:
After we are saved by faith, by believing, we do good works, for Christ and others, and those good works are evidence that we believeOkay so this has always confused me. Maybe someone here can answer my question satisfactorily. In Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul says that wee are saved by faith and not by works. Paul even takes it a step further in Romans 4:5 and says that a person who doesn't work AT ALL. That their faith will be counted for righteousness.
Yet in Matthew 25:31-46 Jesus sends people who do works into heaven and people who don't do works to hell. But wait a minute! Didn't Paul just say that a man who has no works will still go to heaven? Also in James 2:14-26 James says that faith without works is a dead faith. Why the contradiction in the Bible? Wasn't Paul aware that if we had no works that we wouldn't go to heaven? I'm not calling Paul a heretic but I'm calling him wrong. Because what he said doesn't match up with what Jesus says in Matthew 25:31-46! Or... Does it???
Making stuff up? No.You're making stuff up.
Sure thing, bro.Making stuff up? No.
It’s called property harmonizing scripture with scripture.
Acting like a Christian doesn’t make a person a Christian then again, claiming belief in Jesus and not acting like a Christian doesn’t make you one.Is a cat a cat because it acts like one? Or does it act like a cat because it is one? You think acting like a Christian makes a person a Christian.
The problem is: Christians believe in Jesus. They do good things. They shun sin etc.. So when people make salvation conditional, based on doing the things Christians do, they essentially turn people into hypocrites (actors) ensuring them if they do all the right things, whatever it is Christians do, God will save them.Acting like a Christian doesn’t make a person a Christian then again, claiming belief in Jesus and not acting like a Christian doesn’t make you one.
Salvation isn’t solely based on faith nor is it solely based on good works, it’s a combination of both in a life working process.The problem is: Christians believe in Jesus. They do good things. They shun sin etc.. So when people make salvation conditional, based on doing the things Christians do, they essentially turn people into hypocrites (actors) ensuring them if they do all the right things, whatever it is Christians do, God will save them.
Oh, absolutely. I agree with what you wrote. But are we back at the conversation now of whether we choose God or He chooses us, or both?
I don't believe that false doctrine is ever an "eliminator", in the sense that God cannot eventually save them, but it is truth that sets us free. If God has chosen the person, he or she is going to be led to saving faith and living for Christ eventually even if he or she start off in a bad church with false doctrines. I was also misled by false doctrines and false gospels for some time, and just like for you, the Lord led me back to Him and opened my eyes to truth. I believe that God can open our eyes partially and then we get a little lost on the way for one reason or another, then He leads us back to Him, and that happens to me constantly, and probably to most people. The devil is always trying to deceive us, but truth sets us free.
What my point was though was that those who are believing in false gospels are doing so because they have been taught false doctrines, and there are many, many churches who teach it, as Jesus and Paul prophesied to us would happen. Whether they will eventually be saved or fall away or end up like the "Lord, Lord"-people in Matthew 7:22, only God knows. And we would have to look at each person individually to understand why they aren't surrendering. But the reason to why they are in those churches NOW must still be because they have been deceived by false doctrines. But did they believe in the false gospel because the teacher deceived them or because they chose a teacher to suit their desires? Did they believe the false gospel because God is opening their eyes and they are partly lost on their way to God, or because they simply wanted whatever the church and the false doctrines are offering instead of truth?
In the end, all faith comes from God, all wisdom and knowledge about Him comes from Him and our ability to surrender comes from Him. It is always His work in us that saves us. What do you think?
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