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Featured We Are ISRAEL!!!

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by BrotherD, Feb 8, 2020.

  1. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    Under the prophecy given in the OT, the Jewish nation was supposed to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King first. Then the nation Israel will be spreading that message to all Gentiles.

    Zechariah 8 explains
    3 “Thus says the Lord: ‘I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the Lord of hosts, The Holy Mountain.’
    Later on, in the chapter in Zechariah 8:20-23 New Living Translation (NLT)
    20 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: People from nations and cities around the world will travel to Jerusalem. 21 The people of one city will say to the people of another, ‘Come with us to Jerusalem to ask the Lord to bless us. Let’s worship the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. I’m determined to go.’ 22 Many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord of Heaven’s Armies and to ask for his blessing. 23 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: In those days ten men from different nations and languages of the world will clutch at the sleeve of one Jew. And they will say, ‘Please let us walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”

    A similar prophecy was given in Micah Chapter 4 (NLT)
    In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
    2 People from many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of Jacob’s God. There he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion; his word will go out from Jerusalem.

    Finally, the same prophecy was given in the book of Isaiah chapter 2:2
    In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.

    So, based on these 3 accounts, the timeline was supposed to be Jews are to be saved first, once they accept Jesus has the Messiah, then the Kingdom will be established in Jerusalem and the Jews will then be priests spreading that blessings to all the Gentiles.

    Finally, when Jesus was on Earth, he also said this to the Samaritan woman
    John 4:22 New Living Translation (NLT)
    22 You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews.
     
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  2. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    HI Charlie I ask you to read Jer 30 and 31 both whole chapters as they are linked together as 31 begins with in that day.. what day? the day of Jacobs trouble where the LORD makes many statements in ch 30 and notes that ‘For behold, the days are coming,’ says the LORD, ‘that I will bring back from captivity My people Israel and Judah,’ says the LORD. ‘And I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.’ ”

    Alas! For that day is great,
    So that none is like it;
    And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
    But he shall be saved out of it.

    But they shall serve the LORD their God,
    And David their king,
    Whom I will raise up for them

    ‘You shall be My people,
    And I will be your God.’ ”
    23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD
    Goes forth with fury,
    A continuing whirlwind;
    It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.
    24 The fierce anger of the LORD will not return until He has done it,
    And until He has performed the intents of His heart.
    In the latter days you will consider it.

    So in that day is speaking of the latter days that end ch 30. chapter 31 promises this new covenant and then it is followed with statements that Israel will never cease to be a nation in God's eye nor will God cast off the seed of Israel for all they have done.

    Think this over. The new covenant was not accepted by most Jews and the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple were known to God. So here in Jer 31 right after the new covenant which would lead to Israel being destroyed and scattered the LORD made sure to put in that they would not cease to be a nation and that their seed would not be cast off for what they had done. What did they do the rejected Jesus. Jer 31 ends with the city Jerusalem being rebuilt at a time when the whole valley if full of dead bodies and it is then declared holy and never to to torn down again.

    So all the passages about Israel being regathered are speaking about the nation. The promise to Abraham was he would be a great nation and in His seed all the nations would be blessed. There are two forks in the seed of Abraham one is Jesus and true all who receive him are going to be spiritual Israel. This idea does not cancel the covenant with Abraham and his descendants to have the land of Canaan.

    in Jer 3 we see when the throne of Lord is established one clear promise.
    14 “Return, O backsliding children,” says the LORD; “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion. 15 And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.
    16 “Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, ‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.’ It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.
    17 “At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts.
    18 “In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers.

    This is so clear the nation is saved and will inherit the land of promise when the throne is established. This is coming at the end of the tribulation time of Jacobs trouble. Then the millennium.
     
  3. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Elohim - Wikipedia
     
  5. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    And?
     
  6. Yusuphhai

    Yusuphhai Messianic Arabic-Semitic Chinese

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    I think the Name "Israel" is the patent of Israelite since the age of Jocob(Israel), so Christian should know how to define it by Israelite. Christ Jesus, the son of Abraham, the son of David was also from this root.
     
  7. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    David Kolinsky, studied at University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine


    The name Yisra’el (ישראל) comes from the story of Yaaqov-Jacob wrestling with what is presumed to be an angel in the book of Genesis Chapter 32, line 25. The text begins by saying that Yaaqov was alone and a “man” proceeded to wrestle (literally: get down in the dust) with him {{vayae/abhaeq /ish \eemo}} (ויאבק איש עמו). In the next line, it repeats this verb aleph, bet, qooph in the phrase b’hae/abhqo \eemo (בהאבקו עמו) meaning “in his wrestling (getting down in the dust) with him.”

    In line 29, G-d renames him Yisra’el, saying because you have “wrestled” with Elohim (a name for G-d) and with men and have prevailed. The verb used here is not aleph, bet, qooph (אבק), but rather SaRiTa (שרית) from the root Sin.Raesh.Heh (שרה). To get to the basis of the question, the “Yi” aspect of the name (not the Yis) is a verbal prefix indicating not a tense (like past, present or future), but rather a mood (subjunctive, complete or incomplete or continuous action) in any tense / time frame.

    Because of the context of the story and the previous use of the verb /aBhaQ (אבק) (get down into the dust), it is assumed that the verb Sin.Raesh.Heh (שרה) means “to wrestle” also. However, this verbal root is only used to refer to an idea of wrestling in this story and in reference to this story in Hoshea 12:4,5. There is a presumably related root שרר Sin.Raesh.Raesh which means “to rule (Es1:22).” And a seemingly related noun SaRaH like the name Sarah which is usually translated as princess. However, it is unlikely that it means “princess.” Because neither it nor its masculine form (SaR) is used to refer to the son or daughter or relative of royalty. Rather, the masculine form probably means something closer to “overseer.” I say this because these roots are related to the roots:

    ShoWR (שור) meaning “to get a fix on (see)” (Nm23:9,24:17)(Hs14:9)

    (Jb,7:8,17:15,20:9,24:15,33:14,34:29,35:13)(SoS4:8)

    /aShaR (אשר) “to go intentionally / directly” (Pr9:6)

    ShaRaR (שרר) “to fix a direction / to direct (give direction, make go directly)”

    (Jb37:3).
    This last verb is related to the noun ShaRyR (שריר) meaning “muscle.”
    There is also the related root haeShiR (השיר) Hoshea 8:4 probably meaning “to set up overseers.”

    Essentially, all of these roots mean something like “to hold fast on” either visually or physically. So the meaning of Yisrael can mean as the story suggests “one who wrestles with G-d” or it can also mean “one who sets sights on G-d.” And probably it means and is meant to mean both!

    https://www.quora.com/What-does-the...ra-to-struggle-but-Im-unsure-why-Yis-is-there
     
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  8. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    he will save whoever believes & obeys him - John 3:16 it doesn’t matter if you’re a Yahudi or Goy. What matters is obeying God’s commandments - God will accept whoever loves him & obeys him.

    yes, the Messiah was sent only to Israel, he wasn’t sent to the Canaanites, but that does not mean Canaanites that repent and obey Messiah & God cannot attain salvation. It’s just like the Egyptians who left Egypt with the Israelites - they were saved together because they believed, and feared God.

    we already saw in Isaiah 49:6 where God said the Messiah will light the way to salvation so the ends of the earth can attain salvation. God makes a distinction between Israel/Jacob & the ends of the earth in Isaiah 49 so we know it is in fact talking about the Messiah extending God’s salvation to the Gentiles.

    we don’t need the Messiah to make certain statements if they have already been stated by the Prophets or God preciously. He lived and accomplished things in accordance with what God & the Prophets said in the Tanach.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I think you are misinformed on the term elohim. It is not Jesus's name.

    Similarly, human is not your name, is it?
     
  10. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I get it now. You misread my post. Maybe this will help:

    John 20:17 Yahushua saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my Elohim, and your Elohim.

    John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true Elohim, and Yahushua the Messiah, whom thou hast sent.
     
  11. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true Elohim, and Yahushua the Messiah, whom thou hast sent.
     
  12. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    I would side with Israel today in the Land is indeed both houses.

    Both houses were in the land when Yeshua came the first time. It was both houses that rejected Him and caused Him to return to His place. It will be both houses that must acknowledge that offense, turn to Him, and petition for His return.

    Hosea 5:14-15 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
    And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
    I, even I, will tear them and go away;
    I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
    15 I will return again to My place
    Till they acknowledge their offense.
    Then they will seek My face;
    In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me."

    The "they" is both houses, the complete corporate Jacob/Israel. And Yeshua affirmed that in Matthew 23:37-39.

    Considering the actual 'church' was yet future, per Yeshua...

    Matthew 16:18 (NKJV) And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

    And the unique entity that is the 'church' did not start till after Yeshua left, then there is no way the 'church' makes up any part of corporate Jacob/Israel which has a unique purpose and destiny to fulfill. And they will only be blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles come into the Body of Messiah.
     
  13. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    There is only one House of Israel, but there were 12 nations scattered throughout the world.
     
  14. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    Is Israel in the land today?

     
  15. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    I think we really truly need to see this through His eyes. (take with a grain of salt) He asked me once when I felt different left out really troubled about it. You know not being fully like Israel is. He aske me "show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches". No one can see find the difference. How does HE see us. Then back that up with "Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise."

    We are both the Children of the the great I am, the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob
     
  16. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
     
  17. Swan7

    Swan7 Made in the image of His Grace Supporter

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    Some people will understand and others will not. It all depends if one is trying to see through God’s eyes, or through one’s own. Believe you me, makes all the difference. :yellowheart:
     
  18. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus's ministry was to Israel for the world.

    As the long awaited Messiah who fulfilled Israel's vocation Jesus accomplishes the mission through His life and work, thereby bringing the blessing of Abraham to the nations, as was promised in the Old Testament.
     
  19. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!
     
  20. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    They (gentiles) were alien to Israel... Because Israel was a theocracy governed by God and His law surrounded by pagan nations. Gentiles had been under the dominion of Satan's power. Its one reason why Jews were commanded to isolate themselves from gentiles. The gentiles had been alien to Israel.

    We now become the seed of Abraham because Jesus is the seed of Abraham. And, once we are believers? We enter into union with Christ. Its why we read "hid in Christ." Or, seated with Him in Heavenly places.

    That is not to say that the Church is now replacing Israel. Israel as God's people, are still to be Israel. Israel of Jews will be restored starting during the Tribulation (after the rapture of the church). For 144,000 Jews (not gentiles) will be raised up during the Tribulation. During those seven years the Church will then be in Heaven.

    grace and peace...
     
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