Water Baptism is not a command in scripture

[Schroeder]

No were in scripture is this idea commanded, it was used, but only for a time, just as John the baptist said it would be, and Christ baptism would increase and his decrease. It is very misinterpreted by most all denominations and is a burdone, not because of its use but in how it is interpreted to be used and why and or how or when, none of which is ever mentioned in scripture, why because it is not a part of the Gospel message, Which is solely about Christ and his Spirit.

 

[TwinCrier]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus was baptised and we are told to follow Him. It IS part of the gospel message and it is NOT solely about Christ and His Spirit, it is about baptism as well.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. Getting baptised is done in obedience to scripture and to forsake it is disobedience.

 

[JimfromOhio]

The controversy surrounding the theology and practice of baptism is as old as baptism itself. Some questions that have been raised include: What is the significance of baptism? Is baptism necessary for salvation?

Baptism of believers is crucial for three reasons.
1. Christians must imitate the man that led a perfect life and follow his example of baptism.
2. The Bible commands Christians to be baptized in numerous places throughout.
3. Baptism is a symbol, not only of the death, burial, and resurrection, but also of individual rebirth.

Why do Christians get baptized? Basically, knowing that Jesus lived the exemplary Christian life, Christians must realize that they are to follow Jesus and be baptized like him. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan river. The story of Jesus’ baptism is told in the third chapter of Matthew. Not only does God provide a perfect man for Christians to model their lives after, but God also commands us in the scripture to be baptized. In Acts, Peter tells believers living then and now, to “repent and be baptized.”

To me baptism is a symbol. Baptism is essential not only to obey the Lord’s commands, but also to show an outward sign of inward growth. Baptism is a public confession of the Lordship of Christ in an individual’s life. A verse in Matthew says, “Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge before my father in heaven” (NIV). Arguably, baptism also depicts the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and the believer.

This is my belief as well as with many protestant denominations that baptism is not essential for salvation. Nowhere can it be found in the scriptures that baptism saves a person from eternal damnation. The Bible clearly states that believing on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ is the way to heaven.

 

[angela 2]

Ooops

Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.Rom 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

 

[Schroeder]

Ooops

Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.Rom 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

this passage has nothing whatsoever to do with water. It is of the Spirit Baptism which Christ preforms in us when we believe. Notice it says we are united into him in this manner, water has no changing effect on us period. If you say it is sympolic then this should be very clear. How is a sympolic act transforming, it is not the Holy Spirit does, Titus 3:5.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Paul was baptised by the Antiochian Orthodox Church in Damascus by triple emmersion in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

(ACTS 9)

Forgive me....

 

[Schroeder]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus was baptised and we are told to follow Him. It IS part of the gospel message and it is NOT solely about Christ and His Spirit, it is about baptism as well.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. Getting baptised is done in obedience to scripture and to forsake it is disobedience.

First Acts 2:38 is not written as a command, second it is of the Spirit. Water does not remove sin as this passage would suggest, and we receive the Holy Spirit upon belief read Acts 5:30, it says Christ forgivess sin, his Spirit is in us when we believe,Ephesians 1:13-14." And you also were included in christ when you HEARD the word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having BELIEVED, you marked in him with a seal, THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT." 14 Who is a deposit QUARANTEEING OUR INHERITANCE ......" So if you read it with other passages it cant be water, because it would not make since. Use scripture to back up your statements. Christ also followed all the Jewish customs of his day, are we to do those as well. The Spirit water and blood is his water baptism to reveal him to the world as prophecy says, the blood is his sacrifice which covered the sins of the world, and the Spirit is what we receive upon belief which saves us. This passage is about Gods testomony of his Son not a Act of water baptism.

 

[Schroeder]

Paul was baptised by the Antiochian Orthodox Church in Damascus by triple emmersion in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

(ACTS 9)

Forgive me....

Matthew 28 which is not water baptism either. Christ never spoke about water baptism Ever in his ministry, why would he throw it in here right at the very end. This is not a instruction on how to prform a water baptism it is a statement of joining those who believe in him into the Church which is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We join into his power, love, and strength so to speak. Why do we want to forget about Christ baptism of the Holy Spirit that Paul says will increase while his baptism of water would decrease. That would mean he was saying water baptism would slowing sease while the Spirit baptism would grow, or be more taught about. But yes it is about christ and a personal relationship with God through him that is important and prayer is the part that is used in talking to him through the Spirit.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Matthew 28 which is not water baptism either. Christ never spoke about water baptism Ever in his ministry, why would he throw it in here right at the very end. This is not a instruction on how to prform a water baptism it is a statement of joining those who believe in him into the Church which is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We join into his power, love, and strength so to speak. Why do we want to forget about Christ baptism of the Holy Spirit that Paul says will increase while his baptism of water would decrease. That would mean he was saying water baptism would slowing sease while the Spirit baptism would grow, or be more taught about. But yes it is about christ and a personal relationship with God through him that is important and prayer is the part that is used in talking to him through the Spirit.

Christ himself was baptised by John the Baptist. This is the example that is to be used. He began his ministry with it. How much more of a statement could he have made?

In the great comission it is what the Aposltes were told to do... and water baptism is what they did. They obviously understood exactly what Christ intended...

Forgive me...



Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I don't want you to think that I'm saying it's a requirement. What I am saying is it is part of the whole sacrament of Christian life and should not be neglected.

Forgive me....

 

[sojourner]

Schroeder,

Baptism is the entrance into the Kingdom, the Church.
Baptism means immersion or submersion. John the Baptist was baptising as a sign of new life about to be inaugurated. Repentance is a requirement for baptism. The meaning of baptism in the Church is death and rebirth in Christ. John 3:3. See also the Baptismal chapter of Paul, Rom 6 and Col 2:12:3:1.
Baptism is fundalmental in the Church as everything emmanates from the Death and Resurrection of Christ. It is referred to as the first resurrection. Following baptism the Gift of the Holy Spirit is given to each believer. His personal pentacost.
It is entrance into the Kingdom and participation in all the blessings of being IN Christ of participating in His Life and Death through the Eucharist.
The Church is not a distorted, disconnected reality of individuals, but a saving community. It is the practice of communion of all the Saints having the same faith, the same hope of eternal life. It is the corporate act of many persons having one mind, one heart, one mouth in the service of Christ, the One Lord, Christ and the Holy Spirit.
It is most of all the act of committment to repentance and faith. Without it faith is an empty shell, dead, as James clearly points out.
It is the beginning of the Unity IN Christ.
That is why we confess, One Lord, One Baptism, One Church with the Communion of the Saints and the forgiveness of sins.

When Paul and the other apostles wrote the words we find in the NT Scripture, they were recording events and doctrines that had already been in existance and practice for several decades. No one disputed the concept of baptism or how it was performed. Paul in Rom 6 is simply explaining the doctrinal meaning of baptism. That it was being done, was considered an intragal part of the practice of the Church, and how it was done was not significant to what he was saying, but the meaning thereof.

 

[TwinCrier]

Matthew 28 which is not water baptism either. Christ never spoke about water baptism Ever in his ministry, why would he throw it in here right at the very end. This is not a instruction on how to prform a water baptism it is a statement of joining those who believe in him into the Church which is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We join into his power, love, and strength so to speak. Why do we want to forget about Christ baptism of the Holy Spirit that Paul says will increase while his baptism of water would decrease. That would mean he was saying water baptism would slowing sease while the Spirit baptism would grow, or be more taught about. But yes it is about christ and a personal relationship with God through him that is important and prayer is the part that is used in talking to him through the Spirit.

No, baptism spoken of was clearly water baptism. I'm not sure why you have decided to dismiss every verse commanding baptism. It is clearly an ordinacnce for Christians given in scripture. http://www.biblebelievers.com/DeMichele1.html

 

[Schroeder]

I don't want you to think that I'm saying it's a requirement. What I am saying is it is part of the whole sacrament of Christian life and should not be neglected.

Forgive me....

You cant say its NOt a reguirement then say it is part of the sacrements of christian life because it is then reguired. There are no sacraments in christianity or ordances, please show me scripture that states there is. That was not what christ ever taught in his ministry, show me sripture where Christ teaches such things to be needed to be done. You are baseing your ideas on church denom traditions not scripture.

 

[Schroeder]

No, baptism spoken of was clearly water baptism. I'm not sure why you have decided to dismiss every verse commanding baptism. It is clearly an ordinacnce for Christians given in scripture. http://www.biblebelievers.com/DeMichele1.html

If there was a clear command for it it would be followed with hoiw it is to be done and why and such, please give all the scriptures that you say command it.

 

[Schroeder]

Schroeder,

Baptism is the entrance into the Kingdom, the Church.
Baptism means immersion or submersion. John the Baptist was baptising as a sign of new life about to be inaugurated. Repentance is a requirement for baptism. The meaning of baptism in the Church is death and rebirth in Christ. John 3:3. See also the Baptismal chapter of Paul, Rom 6 and Col 2:12:3:1.
Baptism is fundalmental in the Church as everything emmanates from the Death and Resurrection of Christ. It is referred to as the first resurrection. Following baptism the Gift of the Holy Spirit is given to each believer. His personal pentacost.

1 Cor 12:13 clearly says that we are united into the Church by the Spirit ... Baptized by one Spirit into one body. John 3:3 is not water and it tells you that in verse 6, born again of the Spirit NOT water. Rom6 and Col 2:12, 3:1 are of the Spirit, it alone saves and cleanses us Titus 3:5, Read romans 8 where it speaks of the Spirit bringing Christ from the dead and how as it did him so it will us. Rom 8:11

It is entrance into the Kingdom and participation in all the blessings of being IN Christ of participating in His Life and Death through the Eucharist.
The Church is not a distorted, disconnected reality of individuals, but a saving community. It is the practice of communion of all the Saints having the same faith, the same hope of eternal life. It is the corporate act of many persons having one mind, one heart, one mouth in the service of Christ, the One Lord, Christ and the Holy Spirit.
It is most of all the act of committment to repentance and faith. Without it faith is an empty shell, dead, as James clearly points out.
It is the beginning of the Unity IN Christ.
That is why we confess, One Lord, One Baptism, One Church with the Communion of the Saints and the forgiveness of sins.

We participated in his death and ressurection when we were saved, now it is time to live a life that will lead others to him. The One Baptism is of the Spirit which John the baptist said would increase over his water baptism and that he said Christ would do to you.

ul and the other apostles wrote the words we find in the NT Scripture, they were recording events and doctrines that had already been in existance and practice for several decades. No one disputed the concept of baptism or how it was performed. Paul in Rom 6 is simply explaining the doctrinal meaning of baptism. That it was being done, was considered an intragal part of the practice of the Church, and how it was done was not significant to what he was saying, but the meaning thereof.

He is not discribing what water baptism is doing AT ALL, it is ridicules for people to believe that, water does not do anything to us Titus 3:5 shows that the Spirit baptism cleanses us and joins us into the Father Son and Holy Spirit. It was being done because it was a need at the time and which John said would decrease once Christ baptism took effect which was when he died and rose again, at which point his Spirit would baptize you upon your belief in him.

 

[Stinker]

Schroeder is correct that the body (where one remission of sins) is a spiritual body, and the vehicle by which our soul is transferred into it, is also spiritual. (1Cor.12:13)

I differ from Schrorder in that I believe that water baptism is a symbol of our having been spiritually baptized. (Rom.6:3-7)

 

[Stinker]

Holy Spirit baptism that one receives when they first come to New Testament belief, is not implied in Eph.4:5

The water baptism (Jn.4:1-2, Mt.28:19) of Eph.4:5 is a result of the conflict Paul was having with so many disciples only familiar with the baptism of John. (Acts 19:1-5)

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Schroeder,

I wish you luck in your search for truth.

Forgive me....

 

[ChristianPoet05]

Baptism is just a sign of obedience towards God, I mean, you don't have to be baptized and can still be obedient towards Him, but he likes it if you do get baptized with the intention...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

If there was a clear command for it it would be followed with hoiw it is to be done and why and such, please give all the scriptures that you say command it.

The scriptures were never intended by the Church to replace the Church. Only a fraction of the Christian life is contained in Holy Scriptures even with our set which is larger than yours.

The Holy Tradition of the Orthodox Church is the complete deposit of Faith as left to the Apostles. Verbally... of which the Church members wrote....and preserved most all documents of the full deposit of Faith. Much has been destroyed, but mostly just paper. Nothing real has changed... the Church is still here and has maintained the full Faith.

Forgive me....