Was the choice of Mathias as Apostle 12 Kosher?

[timothyu]

if you think it lacking.

It is not lacking., It is just not a monopoly. What I am saying is the act can have two or more different meanings, but one of those meanings cannot claim sole authority over an act.

 

[Hammster]

Peter also thought it was a great idea to build three tabernacles on the mount of transfiguration...

Peter also thought it was a great idea to attack the high priest with a sword.

He was an 'ideas man' and didn't always get it right.

Again, he was never corrected for this.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Again, he was never corrected for this.

Jesus told him to put His sword away because he didn't know what spirit he was of...

That sounds like a correction.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Perhaps Barnabus was one of those 70, that's possible, but if we stick to just scripture it's impossible to ascertain. I can see how church tradition may fit in there but from a strictly scripture standpoint Barnabus never met Jesus.

I could see how it'd be difficult to anoint Apostles with the church being so fractured in its current state.

One thing I'm very confident in is most of those who parade around now with the title of Apostle are decidedly not so.

You'll find no disagreement from me on that final point. Experience (and Scripture of course) has taught me to regard claims of self-importance as eye-roll worthy.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hammster]

Jesus told him to put His sword away because he didn't know what spirit he was of...

That sounds like a correction.

Where’s the correction for Mathias?

 

[Guojing]

Where’s the correction for Mathias?

Agreed. The original 12 apostles of Christ were promised 12 thrones, where they will be judging the 12 tribes of Israel, during the millennial kingdom reign of Christ (Matthew 19:28).

Paul is an apostle to the gentiles (Romans 11:13).

To consider Paul as the 12th apostle is inherently contradictory.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Where’s the correction for Mathias?

Who suggested there was one?

However the calling of Paul is significant.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Agreed. The original 12 apostles of Christ were promised 12 thrones, where they will be judging the 12 tribes of Israel, during the millennial kingdom reign of Christ (Matthew 19:28).

The original 12 including Judas?

 

[Guojing]

The original 12 including Judas?

Matthias was Judas replacement, as Peter explained in Acts 1.

 

[Hammster]

Who suggested there was one?

However the calling of Paul is significant.

That’s the point. There was no correction. And Paul even affirmed the choice.


After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.
— 1 Corinthians 15:6-8

Paul new his apostleship was different.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Can we then comment on the appropriateness or otherwise of casting lots.

Is this something we should be doing today if you think it is appropriate.

If you think it is inappropriate - is this because it is akin to divination ???

 

[Hammster]

Can we then comment on the appropriateness or otherwise of casting lots.

Is this something we should be doing today if you think it is appropriate.

If you think it is inappropriate - is this because it is akin to divination ???

If you can get apostles to do it, sure.

 

[Guojing]

Can we then comment on the appropriateness or otherwise of casting lots.

Is this something we should be doing today if you think it is appropriate.

If you think it is inappropriate - is this because it is akin to divination ???

Like fasting and physical circumcision, casting of lots was specific to the nation of Israel only.

Casting lots was a common practice in the OT. The practice of casting lots occurs most often in connection with the division of the land under Joshua (Joshua chapters 14-21), a procedure that God instructed the Israelites on several times in the book of Numbers (Numbers 26:55; 33:54; 34:13; 36:2).

God allowed the Israelites to cast lots in order to determine His will for a given situation (Joshua 18:6-10; 1 Chronicles 24:5,31).

Various offices and functions in the temple were also determined by lot (1 Chronicles 24:5, 31; 25:8-9; 26:13-14).

The sailors on Jonah’s ship (Jonah 1:7) also cast lots to determine who had brought God’s wrath upon their ship.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Ok so everyone is comfortable with casting lots as a way of determining God's will ???

no, but when the Apostles cast lots for Matthias the Holy Spirit had not been given yet. And its not as though they didnt pray about it. The scriptures state that they prayed over the decision before they cast lots. After the Spirit fell, they never cast lots again but instead speak directly with God for such decisions. (Acts 13:1-3)

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Can we then comment on the appropriateness or otherwise of casting lots.

Is this something we should be doing today if you think it is appropriate.

If you think it is inappropriate - is this because it is akin to divination ???

There is no way the Holy Spirit falls on Pentecost if the Apostles we're practicing divination just days prior. They would have received a spirit sure, just not God's Spirit. So likening casting lots to divination is rather extreme.

 

[Carl Emerson]

no, but when the Apostles cast lots for Matthias the Holy Spirit had not been given yet. And its not as though they didnt pray about it. The scriptures state that they prayed over the decision before they cast lots. After the Spirit fell, they never cast lots again but instead speak directly with God for such decisions. (Acts 13:1-3)

Was the Spirit not given in John 20:22 ??

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Was the Spirit not given in John 20:22 ??

Depends on who you ask. I'm in a discussion on another thread with a brother about this very question. I read John 20 as yes Jesus breathed the Spirit into those who were present. Some do not. But I should clarify, when I said given I meant in the "pouring out" sense.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Duplicate sorry

 

[Carl Emerson]

Like fasting and physical circumcision, casting of lots was specific to the nation of Israel only.

1. Acts 13:2
   While they were serving the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set Barnabas and Saul apart for Me for the work to which I have called them.”
2. Acts 14:23
   When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they entrusted them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Depends on who you ask. I'm in a discussion on another thread with a brother about this very question. I read John 20 as yes Jesus breathed the Spirit into those who were present. Some do not. But I should clarify, when I said given I meant in the "pouring out" sense.

Yes...

My take is that in John 20 they were born again and received the Spirit within.

Later at Pentecost they received the power of the Spirit permanently upon.

However this is a digression I guess...