Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

[Neogaia777]

May answer is, is not only do we (all) do not know, we cannot know (what kind of saved or whether unsaved state David was in or not, when he committed his acts, or afterward or before that, we "cannot know", for only God, and I would theorize that maybe, only God the Father alone knew all that from the very beginning... But how much David or we bounce around or go back and forth, and "if we even do", or there is even such a thing as that, I think only God knows...

He does know where we will all ultimately land as well, you know... knew before we ever even born, conceived, or even thought of... Also everything in-between, (and part of my point is/was we do not, and I believe, in this instance and case (perhaps any) "cannot know" not on this side of reality anyway)...

Anyway, He does know where we will all ultimately land as well, you know... knew before we ever even born, conceived, or even thought of... Also everything in-between, God the Father anyway, and I'm most certainly sure Christ now, definitely by now...

Scriptural support for this (By another poster already Acts of the Apostles 1:7) (Mark 13:32) (Matthew 19:25-26) Parallel in (Mark 10:26-27) (John 14:28)...

I would like to add that if you read some of the scripture especially in John, where Jesus talks about himself and the Father, and how he was confused even when they asked him to "show them the Father", and some of the things he said, but, he was "on his way" "to the Father", this is why he was confused, cause he was showing us the way (of God) (in himself) by living out and walking the path to "show us it", anyway, the Father is not in time, at least, not anymore, if he ever was... But, Jesus is him "in time", to show us him (The Father) "in time", to and by literally walking out (the) life on the (the) way to the Father, to meet him at the cross or upon his death... He was/is/will always be "God" "in time", the only way of showing us God in time... Let me put it another way, if the Father was or ever were in time, he would be exactly like Jesus, no difference whatsoever... And another mystery is why he did it all, or chose to do it all, as a man...

Anyway, not trying to derail, just some of those scriptures and looking for them made me think is all...

I do not think we cannot or will not ever know God "outside of time" BTW, just part of my beliefs...

God Bless!

 

[SkyWriting]

Um, everyone including the prostitute knew it WAS SIN. It wasn’t a matter of someone merely thinking it might be.

Yes, sin is that you think is wrong, but do it anyway.
Jesus told her she should stop doing that.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

 

[ExTiff]

Don't know, because the gifts of the Spirit do not include discernment of God's final judgment on any other individual but oneself, and that is according to one's conscience and is not infallible. We will have to wait and see what happens at The Great White Throne.

 

[Neogaia777]

May answer is, is not only do we (all) do not know, we cannot know (what kind of saved or whether unsaved state David was in or not, when he committed his acts, or afterward or before that, we "cannot know", for only God, and I would theorize that maybe, only God the Father alone knew all that from the very beginning... But how much David or we bounce around or go back and forth, and "if we even do", or there is even such a thing as that, I think only God knows...

He does know where we will all ultimately land as well, you know... knew before we ever even born, conceived, or even thought of... Also everything in-between, (and part of my point is/was we do not, and I believe, in this instance and case (perhaps any) "cannot know" not on this side of reality anyway)...

Anyway, He does know where we will all ultimately land as well, you know... knew before we ever even born, conceived, or even thought of... Also everything in-between, God the Father anyway, and I'm most certainly sure Christ now, definitely by now...

Scriptural support for this (By another poster already Acts of the Apostles 1:7) (Mark 13:32) (Matthew 19:25-26) Parallel in (Mark 10:26-27) (John 14:28)...

I would like to add that if you read some of the scripture especially in John, where Jesus talks about himself and the Father, and how he was confused even when they asked him to "show them the Father", and some of the things he said, but, he was "on his way" "to the Father", this is why he was confused, cause he was showing us the way (of God) (in himself) by living out and walking the path to "show us it", anyway, the Father is not in time, at least, not anymore, if he ever was... But, Jesus is him "in time", to show us him (The Father) "in time", to and by literally walking out (the) life on the (the) way to the Father, to meet him at the cross or upon his death... He was/is/will always be "God" "in time", the only way of showing us God in time... Let me put it another way, if the Father was or ever were in time, he would be exactly like Jesus, no difference whatsoever... And another mystery is why he did it all, or chose to do it all, as a man...

Anyway, not trying to derail, just some of those scriptures and looking for them made me think is all...

I do not think we cannot or will not ever know God "outside of time" BTW, just part of my beliefs...

God Bless!

I may need to explain that I think whether it be the individual time (day(s) and hour(s), or "times or seasons" of an individual life, is not any or much more different from a nations, or they might say today, a "world's"...? "life" I guess you could say... (Job 34:29).

And that maybe, maybe from the very beginning, only the Father alone knew every single specific tiniest little ripple effect event/idea, "thing", from the very, very beginning... But, that even if that is at all true, Christ most certainly does now, and has for a while now I think...

God Bless!

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

Was King David saved before and after he committed those sins?

If a saved person sins can they remain saved?

If we break the law at one point are we guilty of all?

If we have adulterous or murderous thoughts are we guilty?

How those are answered will probably determine the answer to your question.

 

[mark kennedy]

It is written,

5 "Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
6 For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house." (Micah 7:5-6).

Also, the forum rules state we are not to address the poster or the individual, but we are to stick to the topic with Scripture.

In addition, would you believe me if I told you about my life? Well, trust needs to be earned. I confide in those who believe the Word of God as I do. Furthermore, it does not matter if most of the whole world was not living correctly. God's Word is still the standard and the standard is not my life alone. God destroyed an entire world with a global flood except for eight people. We walk by faith and not by sight. I am not above God's Word in what it says anymore than you are. If the Bible tells me to be ye holy, that is something I have to accept (Whether I like it or not).

I think I hit a nerve and rest assured, I'm not interested in what goes on in your personal life. The question was rhetorical because unless every thought, word and deed are the righteousness of God in Christ, reflecting God's perfect will for you, your still a sinner. It's not just things a person does, but things your supposed to be doing and you manage to fail.

Ok, so Micah is telling us not to entrust yourself to anyone but God right? Of course that makes perfect sense, because God is the one offended when we sin and the only source of righteousness and revelation that really matters. Why does Micah, and more importantly God, feel that eight century Israel cannot be trusted?

The faithful have been swept from the land;
not one upright person remains.
Everyone lies in wait to shed blood;
they hunt each other with nets. (Micah 7:2)
​

The Apostle appears to be in perfect agreement here:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Psalm 36:1; Romans 3:10-18)
​

Not one righteous, all have turned away, they are worthless, vicious, violent, do not know the way of peace because there is no fear of God before their eyes. That's pretty much all of us. Everything in the gospel is predicated on the realization that you are in fact, a sinner. This doesn't change when you become a believer, no matter how blameless and upright you become, your still a sinner.

Jason I have no problem with you preaching repentance, I don't hear near enough of it. The issue is what happens should we stumble into the many traps the devil and our own sinful nature sets for us. Sin is never more dangerous then when you think it has left, that's when it comes creeping out of the shadows, making a mess of your best efforts.

I notice you didn't answer my question directly, which is fine it was rhetorical, I hope that means your avoiding committing any act you fear might offend your Creator. But what if you did, do you think the grace that saves you will surrender you to carnality post conversion?

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. (1 John 2:1)
​

John is saying, I hope you don't sin, but if you do you have Jesus Christ, the Righteous One, interceding on your behalf. Not abandoning you, not leaving you in that condition, not condoning or condemning you but renewing the promise that he will deliver you righteous, holy and blameless before the Father at the end of the age.

Think about what your saying Jason, your not saved when you sin? That's not the New Testament message. God is far more angry with us for our sin then we will ever be, especially after he provided the means of righteousness. But reality is an unforgiving taskmaster, the truth is we fail, stumble and sometimes fall. Grace teaches us one thing if nothing else, don't just lay down and quit. Get up fool, the gospel of grace is telling us, don't you quit on me. God's grace comes with a price, if you want God's forgiveness you will pursue righteousness.

Just think about it Jason because if it's possible to lose your salvation then you will lose it only once and it will be impossible to restore you to repentance.

Grace and peace,
Mark

​

 

[Neogaia777]

It's like Jesus was surprised, taken aback, dumbfounded, maybe even a little bit confused when they said "show us the Father", it's almost like he could have said back to them (us), "What? Huh? You don't see, I "am showing you him" right now...?" How else could he explain it...? Cause he already did, or tried to, and most of it is there in John...

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

^ Here is a man who entered by the door to the sheep pen. Unfortunately people who love sin listen for other voices.

I pray nobody does justify sin.
Many think that is not what they are doing.
They may strive and fight against sin even.
But to say that we can sin and still be saved is a license to sin.
To say King David is saved is to justify the idea that we can also be like a King David and do those same kinds of sins and still be saved. Granted, while God can forgive if we do happen to stumble like a King David, he was not planning to rebel against God and he was not saved while he committed those sins. To say so otherwise is to teach we can commit grievous sin and God still accepts us. But God would have to agree with sin in order for that kind of plan of salvation to work. But God is holy and therefore it is impossible for such a plan of salvation like that to work.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think I hit a nerve and rest assured, I'm not interested in what goes on in your personal life. The question was rhetorical because unless every thought, word and deed are the righteousness of God in Christ, reflecting God's perfect will for you, your still a sinner. It's not just things a person does, but things your supposed to be doing and you manage to fail.

Ok, so Micah is telling us not to entrust yourself to anyone but God right? Of course that makes perfect sense, because God is the one offended when we sin and the only source of righteousness and revelation that really matters. Why does Micah, and more importantly God, feel that eight century Israel cannot be trusted?

The faithful have been swept from the land;
not one upright person remains.
Everyone lies in wait to shed blood;
they hunt each other with nets. (Micah 7:2)
​

The Apostle appears to be in perfect agreement here:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Psalm 36:1; Romans 3:10-18)
​

Not one righteous, all have turned away, they are worthless, vicious, violent, do not know the way of peace because there is no fear of God before their eyes. That's pretty much all of us. Everything in the gospel is predicated on the realization that you are in fact, a sinner. This doesn't change when you become a believer, no matter how blameless and upright you become, your still a sinner.

Jason I have no problem with you preaching repentance, I don't hear near enough of it. The issue is what happens should we stumble into the many traps the devil and our own sinful nature sets for us. Sin is never more dangerous then when you think it has left, that's when it comes creeping out of the shadows, making a mess of your best efforts.

I notice you didn't answer my question directly, which is fine it was rhetorical, I hope that means your avoiding committing any act you fear might offend your Creator. But what if you did, do you think the grace that saves you will surrender you to carnality post conversion?

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. (1 John 2:1)
​

John is saying, I hope you don't sin, but if you do you have Jesus Christ, the Righteous One, interceding on your behalf. Not abandoning you, not leaving you in that condition, not condoning or condemning you but renewing the promise that he will deliver you righteous, holy and blameless before the Father at the end of the age.

Think about what your saying Jason, your not saved when you sin? That's not the New Testament message. God is far more angry with us for our sin then we will ever be, especially after he provided the means of righteousness. But reality is an unforgiving taskmaster, the truth is we fail, stumble and sometimes fall. Grace teaches us one thing if nothing else, don't just lay down and quit. Get up fool, the gospel of grace is telling us, don't you quit on me. God's grace comes with a price, if you want God's forgiveness you will pursue righteousness.

Just think about it Jason because if it's possible to lose your salvation then you will lose it only once and it will be impossible to restore you to repentance.

Grace and peace,
Mark

​

No. You didn't hit a nerve. That would be your imagination thinking that. It is my standard copy and paste reply. I honestly do not trust those who do not believe as I do in regards to Soteriology. Oh, and I have a different interpretation to that passage, but that is not the topic of discussion of this thread. I merely offered it to show you why I was not giving you an answer.

Good day to you in the Lord;
And may His peace and love be upon you today.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think I hit a nerve and rest assured, I'm not interested in what goes on in your personal life. The question was rhetorical because unless every thought, word and deed are the righteousness of God in Christ, reflecting God's perfect will for you, your still a sinner. It's not just things a person does, but things your supposed to be doing and you manage to fail.

Ok, so Micah is telling us not to entrust yourself to anyone but God right? Of course that makes perfect sense, because God is the one offended when we sin and the only source of righteousness and revelation that really matters. Why does Micah, and more importantly God, feel that eight century Israel cannot be trusted?

The faithful have been swept from the land;
not one upright person remains.
Everyone lies in wait to shed blood;
they hunt each other with nets. (Micah 7:2)
​

The Apostle appears to be in perfect agreement here:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Psalm 36:1; Romans 3:10-18)
​

Not one righteous, all have turned away, they are worthless, vicious, violent, do not know the way of peace because there is no fear of God before their eyes. That's pretty much all of us. Everything in the gospel is predicated on the realization that you are in fact, a sinner. This doesn't change when you become a believer, no matter how blameless and upright you become, your still a sinner.

Jason I have no problem with you preaching repentance, I don't hear near enough of it. The issue is what happens should we stumble into the many traps the devil and our own sinful nature sets for us. Sin is never more dangerous then when you think it has left, that's when it comes creeping out of the shadows, making a mess of your best efforts.

I notice you didn't answer my question directly, which is fine it was rhetorical, I hope that means your avoiding committing any act you fear might offend your Creator. But what if you did, do you think the grace that saves you will surrender you to carnality post conversion?

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. (1 John 2:1)
​

John is saying, I hope you don't sin, but if you do you have Jesus Christ, the Righteous One, interceding on your behalf. Not abandoning you, not leaving you in that condition, not condoning or condemning you but renewing the promise that he will deliver you righteous, holy and blameless before the Father at the end of the age.

Think about what your saying Jason, your not saved when you sin? That's not the New Testament message. God is far more angry with us for our sin then we will ever be, especially after he provided the means of righteousness. But reality is an unforgiving taskmaster, the truth is we fail, stumble and sometimes fall. Grace teaches us one thing if nothing else, don't just lay down and quit. Get up fool, the gospel of grace is telling us, don't you quit on me. God's grace comes with a price, if you want God's forgiveness you will pursue righteousness.

Just think about it Jason because if it's possible to lose your salvation then you will lose it only once and it will be impossible to restore you to repentance.

Grace and peace,
Mark

​

As for Romans 3:

Okay, if you believe that Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 applies to the present walk of the believer, then you MUST ALSO BELIEVE that Romans 3:11 applies to the present walk of the believer, too. Romans 3:11 says, "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

Are you saying that Christians do not understand and that they do not seek after God?

This is what you must believe if you are to hold to your interpretation on Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23.

 

[mark kennedy]

I pray nobody does justify sin.
Many think that is not what they are doing.
They may strive and fight against sin even.
But to say that we can sin and still be saved is a license to sin.
To say King David is saved is to justify the idea that we can also be like a King David and do those same kinds of sins and still be saved. Granted, while God can forgive if we do happen to stumble like a King David, he was not planning to rebel against God and he was not saved while he committed those sins. To say so otherwise is to teach we can commit grievous sin and God still accepts us. But God would have to agree with sin in order for that kind of plan of salvation to work. But God is holy and therefore it is impossible for such a plan of salvation like that to work.

Your forgetting something:

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age (Hebrews 6: 4-5)
​

This is the whole problem:

But to say that we can sin and still be saved is a license to sin.

That is not the gospel. That is not the New Testament teaching regarding repentance. The message is that you are a sinner, receiving the gospel and the Holy Spirit you have the means of righteousness but if you sin, God's grace is sufficient. That's not a license to sin, quite the opposite, that's why repentance is an ongoing thing.

​

 

[Oldmantook]

I think I hit a nerve and rest assured, I'm not interested in what goes on in your personal life. The question was rhetorical because unless every thought, word and deed are the righteousness of God in Christ, reflecting God's perfect will for you, your still a sinner. It's not just things a person does, but things your supposed to be doing and you manage to fail.

Ok, so Micah is telling us not to entrust yourself to anyone but God right? Of course that makes perfect sense, because God is the one offended when we sin and the only source of righteousness and revelation that really matters. Why does Micah, and more importantly God, feel that eight century Israel cannot be trusted?

The faithful have been swept from the land;
not one upright person remains.
Everyone lies in wait to shed blood;
they hunt each other with nets. (Micah 7:2)
​

The Apostle appears to be in perfect agreement here:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Psalm 36:1; Romans 3:10-18)
​

Not one righteous, all have turned away, they are worthless, vicious, violent, do not know the way of peace because there is no fear of God before their eyes. That's pretty much all of us. Everything in the gospel is predicated on the realization that you are in fact, a sinner. This doesn't change when you become a believer, no matter how blameless and upright you become, your still a sinner.

Jason I have no problem with you preaching repentance, I don't hear near enough of it. The issue is what happens should we stumble into the many traps the devil and our own sinful nature sets for us. Sin is never more dangerous then when you think it has left, that's when it comes creeping out of the shadows, making a mess of your best efforts.

I notice you didn't answer my question directly, which is fine it was rhetorical, I hope that means your avoiding committing any act you fear might offend your Creator. But what if you did, do you think the grace that saves you will surrender you to carnality post conversion?

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. (1 John 2:1)
​

John is saying, I hope you don't sin, but if you do you have Jesus Christ, the Righteous One, interceding on your behalf. Not abandoning you, not leaving you in that condition, not condoning or condemning you but renewing the promise that he will deliver you righteous, holy and blameless before the Father at the end of the age.

Think about what your saying Jason, your not saved when you sin? That's not the New Testament message. God is far more angry with us for our sin then we will ever be, especially after he provided the means of righteousness. But reality is an unforgiving taskmaster, the truth is we fail, stumble and sometimes fall. Grace teaches us one thing if nothing else, don't just lay down and quit. Get up fool, the gospel of grace is telling us, don't you quit on me. God's grace comes with a price, if you want God's forgiveness you will pursue righteousness.

Just think about it Jason because if it's possible to lose your salvation then you will lose it only once and it will be impossible to restore you to repentance.

Grace and peace,
Mark

​

The book of 1 John was written specifically to assure us of how we know we possess eternal life and the forgiveness of sin. Your claim that if we lose our salvation, it is impossible to be restored to repentance has no scriptural warrant. Was not the prodigal son restored back to his father after he repented and sought forgiveness? 1 John distinguishes between occasional sin and habitual sin - big difference. The cleansing blood of Jesus is effectual IF one is walking in the light (1 Jn 1:7). Walking in the light is descriptive of a lifestyle of holiness but not without occasional sin, since no one is without sin (v.8,10). Thus when one is abiding in Christ and walking accordingly, when one sins and repents, Jesus' blood cleanses from sin. That cannot be said of believers who do not abide in Christ, disobey and walk in darkness and they do not even have fellowship with God (v.6). Believers who instead walk in darkness and practice sin are children of the devil (1 Jn 3:8). However if like the prodigal, one repents and turns away from the practice of sin, then forgiveness and restoration is possible.

 

[mark kennedy]

No. You didn't hit a nerve. That would be your imagination thinking that. It is my standard copy and paste reply. I honestly do not trust those who do not believe as I do in regards to Soteriology. Oh, and I have a different interpretation to that passage, but that is not the topic of discussion of this thread. I merely offered it to show you why I was not giving you an answer.

Good day to you in the Lord;
And may His peace and love be upon you today.

You never answered the question, which is fine, didn't expect you to. Micah is very much a part of this topic and that passage was an important insight into the fact that we are sinners. You keep forgetting that, I keep reminding you and you keep pretending your eyes don't see.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. (1 John 2:1)

John did not say that I hope you don't sin. He says, "sin not." Jesus says, "sin no more." This means you have to stop. Yes, there is grace if we honestly do not plan to sin, but most here do not believe they can overcome sin and they think they are always going to sin as a matter of fact. This is why many here are so adamant to defend the idea that David was saved in his sins of adultery and murder because that means that they can also abide in grievous sin and still be saved, too. But they would not be listening to John when he says, "sin not." They would not be listening to Jesus when He ways, "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You never answered the question, which is fine, didn't expect you to. Micah is very much a part of this topic and that passage was an important insight into the fact that we are sinners. You keep forgetting that, I keep reminding you and you keep pretending your eyes don't see.

The verse I quoted mentions nothing about how you believers are sinners in their present walk with God. Again, 1 Timothy 6:3-4 says if any man does not agree with the words of the Lord Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. James 4:6 says that God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

 

[mark kennedy]

The book of 1 John was written specifically to assure us of how we know we possess eternal life and the forgiveness of sin. Your claim that if we lose our salvation, it is impossible to be restored to repentance has no scriptural warrant. Was not the prodigal son restored back to his father after he repented and sought forgiveness? 1 John distinguishes between occasional sin and habitual sin - big difference. The cleansing blood of Jesus is effectual IF one is walking in the light (1 Jn 1:7). Walking in the light is descriptive of a lifestyle of holiness but not without occasional sin, since no one is without sin (v.8,10). Thus when one is abiding in Christ and walking accordingly, when one sins and repents, Jesus' blood cleanses from sin. That cannot be said of believers who do not abide in Christ, disobey and walk in darkness and they do not even have fellowship with God (v.6). Believers who instead walk in darkness and practice sin are children of the devil (1 Jn 3:8).

My point was simply that John is saying, I'm writing to you so you don't sin, but if we do we have Jesus as our advocate. You don't lose your salvation because you sin, you deserve to, just like you don't deserve salvation in the first place. I'm saying if it is possible to lose salvation then you can only do it once and after that it will be impossible to be restored to repentance, Hebrews 6 discusses this at length.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:26).

Yet, many in the OSAS camp believe they will sin again as a matter of fact. It is a willful declaration that they are going to sin again at some point in the future again.

 

[mark kennedy]

John did not say that I hope you don't sin. He says, "sin not." Jesus says, "sin no more." This means you have to stop. Yes, there is grace if we honestly do not plan to sin, but most here do not believe they can overcome sin and they think they are always going to sin as a matter of fact. This is why many here are so adamant to defend the idea that David was saved in his sins of adultery and murder because that means that they can also abide in grievous sin and still be saved, too. But they would not be listening to John when he says, "sin not." They would not be listening to Jesus when He ways, "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11).

John is not saying what you are, John says if we sin we have Jesus as our advocate, not that we lose our salvation. You've abandoned the text.

 

[SolomonVII]

Being saved is a Christian concept. Resurrection is a concept that came to life in Judaism in the Diaspora and puppet kingdoms that came to life with the destruction of the First Temple and the Davidic kingdom.
David did not really see himself as saved therefore or even much forgiven therefore. He wasn’t really concerned about the next life, because the after life was a very small part of his world view in the first place. His legacy was his kingdom carrying on through the generation and he died understanding that his actions led directly to a world where the legacy of a kingdom was going to be erased.
Like Cain, his sin had consequences that marked him for the rest of his life. He died knowing that. He lived the rest of his life knowing that, and therefore the question of being saved would have been a bitter constellation, at best for him.
The Promised Land of Isreal filled with milk and honey was the dream of the historic people of the Bible. With David, that dream was crushed, even as it had just been realized.
David was responsible for that loss, and that is what he knew was going to be his legacy forever.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My point was simply that John is saying, I'm writing to you so you don't sin, but if we do we have Jesus as our advocate. You don't lose your salvation because you sin, you deserve to, just like you don't deserve salvation in the first place. I'm saying if it is possible to lose salvation then you can only do it once and after that it will be impossible to be restored to repentance, Hebrews 6 discusses this at length.

Hebrews 3:13 says you can be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." (Hebrews 3:13).

Why is this a problem?

Because a person can depart from the living God by having a hard heart.

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God." (Hebrews 3:12).

A person can depart from the living God without even knowing it.
The heart is deceitful.

There are those who have a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof (See 2 Timothy 3:1-9).

What power are they denying?

The power that God can help them to overcome sin.