Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

[Oldmantook]

Before I would live and die by the word “since” in one English translation, I would look at a Parralel Bible with different English translations or Greek.

I wouldn’t hang my hat one one insignificant word like since that I only see in the ESV

Really? Did you even bother to look??
English Standard Version
and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Berean Study Bible
and then have fallen away—to be restored again to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.
New American Standard Bible
and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Good News Translation
And then they abandoned their faith! It is impossible to bring them back to repent again, because they are again crucifying the Son of God and exposing him to public shame.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
and who have fallen away, because, to their own harm, they are recrucifying the Son of God and holding Him up to contempt.
NET Bible
and then have committed apostasy, to renew them again to repentance, since they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again and holding him up to contempt.
New King James
if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Obviously you didn't do your homework did you?

 

[DeeR.]

What about Glorifying...?

Glorifying is done through His discipline and making His people holy through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. It is a process that begins at the new birth and continues until all is finished.

 

[redleghunter]

The Greek words for "crucify" and "shame" in Heb 6:6 are "anastaurountas" and "paradeigmatizontas" - both of which are present tense participles. These present tense participles in the Greek indicate ongoing/continuous action thus better translated as CRUCIFYING and SHAMING. These actions indicate ongoing/habitual sin. Thus the verse itself states that it is impossible to renew them to repentance SINCE/BECAUSE they are crucifying and shaming Christ = habitual sin.

Those words have nothing to do with sin. You just made that up.

 

[DeeR.]

Before I would live and die by the word “since” in one English translation, I would look at a Parralel Bible with different English translations or Greek.

I wouldn’t hang my hat one one insignificant word like since that I only see in the ESV

It is not merely the translation of a word we follow or interpret by, but by how God weaves it together with the whole of His Spirit and truth and Word both written and living all in one accord in a pattern that is always in harmony with every other part.

 

[Neogaia777]

There is more than one verse in the bible. While present tense is in one passage, it is written that we must die daily which is continual. Scripture is a whole and not a series of independent verses. Debating what it means to be separated from God forever is another issue. Since the scripture also says that if they were truly one of us they would have remained until the end... teaches us that if we are truly His we Will remain and can not be lost. That too is the word of God and can not be dismissed.

I think the way we should die daily, is going to God in prayer as dead basically, daily, (probably want to do this early) and we "leave some things there", confess and/or repent for things, ask for help and forgiveness with other things, say our prayers for other people, ect, and anything else, and then, when humbled, get up, and "rise again" (not in pride though), but we go (and if we can take God with us) (for then we will have the confidence that is not pride, ego, or arrogance, but that comes from God, with us) then, we go out into our day in the world but not a a part of the world then coming back again, and maybe just talking to and with God before you go to bed at night, (along with prayers if you like and/or the like), but you have to do that "humbling yourself "regularly, and lets be perfectly honest, sometimes that can feel like dying, or like being dead sometimes, but, we rise again or afterward...

We should do this with God regularly at the very least...

God Bless!

 

[Oldmantook]

Those words have nothing to do with sin. You just made that up.

Yeah right. Shaming Christ is not sin. Do you really believe what you write??

 

[redleghunter]

Yeah right. Shaming Christ is not sin. Do you really believe what you write??

Considering the lead up chapters to this one are about the atonement in Christ’s blood and Christ as our High Priest, the subject is just that...denying that atonement as the necessary and full atonement and denying Him as High Priest of the New Covenant.

It’s not about sin but where one goes for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, you've contradicted that in saying if you believed you would be saved after going to a temporary hell, then you would sin to your heart's content, eat ice cream, watch Star Trek movies, etc.

Likewise, based on the same reasoning, you'ld have no motivation to cease from sins which you do not think will cause you to lose salvation & be annihilated forever.

Therefore, anyone following your thinking, is being given a licence to sin.

You say going over the speed limit is not a sin that causes loss of salvation. So to anyone who loves to commit that sin, & accepts your doctrine, they have a licence to sin.

You are a Universalist. So you mock any real form of punishment because everyone is going to eventually make it to heaven in the end. Sure, there is temporary suffering, but we as believers are to suffer temporarily for Christ here on Earth. Ultimately, there are no real everlasting consequences in your view. The reason why you don’t do certain things is because of the punishment. For example: In the OT, you could take life under God’s command of destroying certain enemies. But the thought of taking life by many Christians (even myself) is not an appealing idea today. Here is the suburban life of America, we don’t live in the OT world. Many (not all) have not been forced into the horrors of war. So if you see someone take a life, it would be horrible for you unless you have already seen that kind of thing and become desensitized to it.

If your parents did not punish you for doing wrong, you would grow up to be potentially spoiled (thinking there are no consequences to your actions). Imagine if there was no law enforcement today. The nation would just say that if you love, you wouldn’t do that. But such a nation would fall because it would be chaos and disorder because evil was not kept in balance or in check. A nation like that would be wickedness without any checks or balances and you would not have the peace that you have now by taking a nice stroll down the street with your loved ones (watching the birds or the squirrels).

Mocking the idea of going 5mph over the speed limit vs say murder is not right. If you don’t know the difference, I will pray for you, dear sir.

 

[Oldmantook]

Considering the lead up chapters to this one are about the atonement in Christ’s blood and Christ as our High Priest, the subject is just that...denying that atonement as the necessary and full atonement and denying Him as High Priest of the New Covenant.

It’s not about sin but where one goes for the forgiveness of sins.

Read English. It plainly states that it is impossible to renew them to repentance SINCE/BECAUSE they are crucifying/shaming Christ. Now just what part of that do you fail to understand? It states nothing at all regarding the atonement. It says what it says. If you choose not to heed it - your choice.

 

[Oldmantook]

You sure added a lot of your extra thoughts to that verse that the Bible doesn’t specify.

The verse is about how they believed sin was atoned for, not the number of sins or habitual sinning.

Don’t know where you got all that.

Even the Gentiles were under siege by the judaizers trying to bring them back into the Law after Christ.

This was a huge problem back then. There were many more Jewish believers than believers of Christ.

But the point is to clarify and teach them.

Just as the New Testament teaches us. All the Books of the Bible were letters or spoken back then. To bring people to truth.

The verse clearly gives the reason as indicated by the words SINCE/BECAUSE. If you choose to ignore the stated reason, that's your prerogative.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

Do you believe King David was saved in his sins? You no doubt will say... yes.

Actually, I said, yes and no. Something you do not seem able to comprehend.

 

[Oldmantook]

The author is sopeaking towards those who were in their midst, and were with them, but were not of them, as John stated also, that they would depart from us and showed mere professors only!

The passage states that they were ENLIGHTENED, TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, TASTED OF THE GOOD WORD OF GOD AND THE POWERS OF THE AGE TO COME.
These descriptors are not indicative of "mere professors only" so that is a weak rationale.

 

[Oldmantook]

There is more than one verse in the bible. While present tense is in one passage, it is written that we must die daily which is continual. Scripture is a whole and not a series of independent verses. Debating what it means to be separated from God forever is another issue. Since the scripture also says that if they were truly one of us they would have remained until the end... teaches us that if we are truly His we Will remain and can not be lost. That too is the word of God and can not be dismissed.

Sorry but you have committed a logical fallacy. While it is certainly true that some who separate/depart from God were never believers, it does not logically nor scripturally entail that all who separate/depart were never believers. That would be like saying since some chickens lay brown eggs, all chickens lay brown eggs which is of course false.
Scripture certainly does not state that those who are truly his will remain and not be lost. Have you not read Col 1:23? "if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister." The word IF indicates possibility NOT certainty. IF YOU CONTINUE in the faith.... This clause can only apply to genuine believers because an unsaved person cannot continue in the faith since he is not even in the faith to begin with. Only believers have the choice whether or not to continue in the faith. This verse clearly indicates that it is possible to not continue in the faith for the regenerate believer.

 

[Oldmantook]

Considering the lead up chapters to this one are about the atonement in Christ’s blood and Christ as our High Priest, the subject is just that...denying that atonement as the necessary and full atonement and denying Him as High Priest of the New Covenant.

It’s not about sin but where one goes for the forgiveness of sins.

Why do you even consider the "lead up" when the VERSE ITSELF gives the reason. In doing so, you violate the golden rule of hermeneutics which states, When the meaning of a verses makes plain sense, seek no other sense,

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

What is your interpretation on Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23?

This is a strange question and I do not see its relevance. I read each as it is written and feel they have no need of interpretation. That's like asking me how I interpret, the supermarket is straight down Browne St.

 

[DeeR.]

The passage states that they were ENLIGHTENED, TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, TASTED OF THE GOOD WORD OF GOD AND THE POWERS OF THE AGE TO COME.
These descriptors are not indicative of "mere professors only" so that is a weak rationale.

Isn't it interesting that you rely on a single passage so insistently but do not believe the numerous consistent examples of the opposite view... why are you so quick to see 1 passage that speaks to your belief but not the many that support His words that say we who are His will not be lost.... why do you not see that if we are truly His we will remain and He will see it through? Weak rationale is that which doesn't see the tapestry as a whole and make 1 go against the whole my friend.

 

[Neogaia777]

I think the way we should die daily, is going to God in prayer as dead basically, daily, (probably want to do this early) and we "leave some things there", confess and/or repent for things, ask for help and forgiveness with other things, say our prayers for other people, ect, and anything else, and then, when humbled, get up, and "rise again" (not in pride though), but we go (and if we can take God with us) (for then we will have the confidence that is not pride, ego, or arrogance, but that comes from God, with us) then, we go out into our day in the world but not a a part of the world then coming back again, and maybe just talking to and with God before you go to bed at night, (along with prayers if you like and/or the like), but you have to do that "humbling yourself "regularly, and lets be perfectly honest, sometimes that can feel like dying, or like being dead sometimes, but, we rise again or afterward...

We should do this with God regularly at the very least...

God Bless!

Genesis 3:4-5 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die (lie) (we have to die): For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, (That much is true) and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (not without dying first) (dying daily if necessary) (and not without God)...

(Genesis 3:1) The serpent was more cunning (crafty, slick, "deceptive") than any other beast in the field, and he said (initiated the conversation) to the woman... And the rest is history... and our future...

God Bless!

 

[DeeR.]

Read English. It plainly states that it is impossible to renew them to repentance SINCE/BECAUSE they are crucifying/shaming Christ. Now just what part of that do you fail to understand? It states nothing at all regarding the atonement. It says what it says. If you choose not to heed it - your choice.

You are very argumentative and condescending Oldmantook, that is not good. If you feel you need to be like that to prove a point, consider that you may already be missing the Spirit of the law and stuck on the letter. Interpretation of scripture is not on logic or reasoning for God has made such things foolish. It is by Revelation and Divine Wisdom. The context of the entire letter is very relevant since it is all meant as a whole as is the entirety of scripture. Dismissing his point on keeping it in context is incorrect because it is very important indeed.

 

[ClementofA]

Scripture certainly does not state that those who are truly his will remain and not be lost. Have you not read Col 1:23? "if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister." The word IF indicates possibility NOT certainty. IF YOU CONTINUE in the faith.... This clause can only apply to genuine believers because an unsaved person cannot continue in the faith since he is not even in the faith to begin with. Only believers have the choice whether or not to continue in the faith. This verse clearly indicates that it is possible to not continue in the faith for the regenerate believer.

Could the OSAS advocates argue as follows:

Col.1:22a But now he has reconciled you...23a if indeed you continue in your faith...

This could mean if you don't continue in your faith, then you are not "now reconciled". Those who are now reconciled (i.e. saved) will continue in their faith. IOW not continuing in faith is evidence you are not "now reconciled". So to not "continue in your faith" is not necessarily evidence against OSAS or that one can be reconciled/saved & lose salvation.

The condition(s) for being "now reconciled" are:

Col.1:23a if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard...

If you don't fulfill those condition(s), then you are not "now reconciled". You might be reconciled some time in the future, but not "now".

 

[DeeR.]

Sorry but you have committed a logical fallacy. While it is certainly true that some who separate/depart from God were never believers, it does not logically nor scripturally entail that all who separate/depart were never believers. That would be like saying since some chickens lay brown eggs, all chickens lay brown eggs which is of course false.
Scripture certainly does not state that those who are truly his will remain and not be lost. Have you not read Col 1:23? "if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister." The word IF indicates possibility NOT certainty. IF YOU CONTINUE in the faith.... This clause can only apply to genuine believers because an unsaved person cannot continue in the faith since he is not even in the faith to begin with. Only believers have the choice whether or not to continue in the faith. This verse clearly indicates that it is possible to not continue in the faith for the regenerate believer.

Try not to be so quick to be right and ask more questions before judging.
◄ 1 John 2:19 ►
Verse
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

So as you see it is both Logical (in God's logic) and Scriptural.