Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
But Hebrews 6 is not addressing habitual sin. It addresses those who were once enlightened and knew the Gospel but looked elsewhere for their salvation.I already wrote that habitual sin is the evidence of no repentance and therefore no forgiveness. Are you suggesting that one stuck in habitual now has no opportunity to repent in the future should he/she cease sinning and turn to Christ??
Let me first ask you a simple question. Do not the scriptures EXPLICITLY warn you that should you take the mark of the beast, you will suffer eternal torment? Would you still have Jesus' 'imputed' righteousness then? If you evade answering this question, possess a crystal ball and are 100% certain that you would never take the mark and thus deny Christ, just remember that Peter who walked and talked with Jesus daily was absolutely certain that he would not deny Christ; yet we all know what happened to Peter. And why would you not take it? After all, don't you believe that you can never lose you justification??Where is the explicit teaching in Holy Scriptures that souls who have been regenerated lose their justification and imputed righteousness from God through and in Christ?
I suggest you read Heb 6:6. Does it not plainly state that it was impossible to renew them to repentance SINCE they were shaming/crucifying Christ? The word "since" points to the exact reason it was impossible to renew them. Since the verse interprets itself, we need not look any further.But Hebrews 6 is not addressing habitual sin. It addresses those who were once enlightened and knew the Gospel but looked elsewhere for their salvation.
No Jason, it's not, it's an if then proposition specifically related to losing salvation due to adultry or murder. If for whatever reason you were to lose salvation you cannot be restored to repentance. Just because you have no answer for this doesn't mean it's off topic. I take it the commenrary you've looked at has yeilded little if anything to support the premise your try to argue. A similar verse describes repentance and being crucified with Christ vicariously Romans 6:9-10. He cannot die again, the death of Christ was a once and for alll time event in redemptive history. Hebrews 6:4-6 tells us the apostasy that results from falling away from the faith is a permanent condition.Unrelated passage to the topic of discussion of this thread. Please start another thread if you want to continue to talk about Hebrews 6:4-6. We are talking about King David on whether or not he was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder. We need passages or verses that are more directly in line with his situation. Hebrews 6:4-6 is unrelated because it is talking about apostasy and not backsliding.
There are numerous scriptures that warn against apostatizing. They are only addressed to genuine believers. You would have to explain to me how an unsaved person who is not part of the faith can depart/apostatize from something he was never a part of. That is an impossibility.John is describing same person as in Hebrews 6, someone who professed Jesus saved them, but did not have the actual rebirth experience!
But Hebrews 6 is not addressing habitual sin. It addresses those who were once enlightened and knew the Gospel but looked elsewhere for their salvation.
Nothing in God’s Word shows David unrepentant. As a matter of fact, God fives him one of the greatest compliments saying he is a man after his own heart.Let's get back to the topic of the thread again in regards to whether or not King David being saved in his sins of adultery and murder.
1 John 3:15 is one of such verse that holds the key to our understanding on this.
For it says, "NO MURDERER has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).
Now, I don't know about you, but I cannot in good conscience change what this verse says. It tells me that anyone who is a murderer (unrepentant murderer - obviously), they do not have have eternal life abiding in them. That is what this verse says to me. What do you think it says?
Before I would live and die by the word “since” in one English translation, I would look at a Parralel Bible with different English translations or Greek.I suggest you read Heb 6:6. Does it not plainly state that it was impossible to renew them to repentance SINCE they were shaming/crucifying Christ? The word "since" points to the exact reason it was impossible to renew them. Since the verse interprets itself, we need not look any further.
Nothing in God’s Word shows David unrepentant. As a matter of fact, God fives him one of the greatest compliments saying he is a man after his own heart.
Since after repentance, sin is cast as far as the east is from the west by God, never to be brought up again.
I don’t believe King David guilty of 1 John 3:15 because I believe he repented.
So, in his repentance the sin of murder has been forgiven
In Hebrews 6:9 the writer expresses that he is convinced of better things of them, things that accompany salvation. These people had been Christians for years, probably decades. He seems frustrated that it's nessacary to go over basic doctrine again, they had anple time to mature in the faith. The theme is Christ is greater then the angels, Moses , the High Priest and the all important sanctuary. They would look to the Temple in the old covenant because God dwelled there. Now God dwells in the hearts of believers and the church is being built up as the body of Christ wherein the Holy Spirit dwells. 1 Corinthians 12 deals with this at length for Gentiles, Hebrews is expressing the same thing from a more Jewish perspective. It reminds me a lot of Galations with the urgency of not returning to the Old Testament shadows of the substance found only in Christ.Which allows for the plausible question of whether or not such a person truly trusted in Grace in the first place.
I think that it is not good practice to form our doctrine from the anecdotal experience of one person. I'm not doubting that person's testimony; just that I believe Scripture is the sole means by which doctrine is formed.Yes, I believe that a Christian who has backslidden into sin can repent (as long as they do not deny Jesus Christ as their Savior or if they stop to believe in Him). The Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15) and James 5:19-20 shows that a Christian can go from a saved state, and then to an unsaved state and back again. Hebrews 6:4-6 is dealing with apostasy (denying Jesus in some way), and not in being temporarily backslidden. I have encountered a Christian who says they backslid and they now cannot repent no matter how hard they try. They say they did not deny Jesus outright (when they backslid). Now, I will not judge this person openly here. God knows their heart and situation ultimately. But it makes me think that it is possible that a Christian not only can reject Christ with their words to depart from the living God, but they can do so with their actions (Much like when how the author of Hebrews was hinting at the fact that if certain Christians went back to the OT sacrificial system to avoid persecution for a temporary time). The Christians who wanted to avoid persecution by going back to becoming a Jew for a while would in effect be denying or rejecting Christ by their actions (Denying His sacrifice and denying Christ for all people), and they would not be able to come back and be able to repent again.
But Hebrews 6 is not addressing habitual sin. It addresses those who were once enlightened and knew the Gospel but looked elsewhere for their salvation.
Really though since David was under the Old Covenant and sin was handled through the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood then David was saved while waiting for forgiveness through the nextI believe David was forgiven when he repented (confessed), too.
But he was not saved WHILE he was committing those sins, though.
He did not confess yet of those sins.
Problem is these were Hebrews who became believers as they were ENLIGHTENED, TASTED OF HEAVENLY GIFT, and were PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. These are descriptors only of genuine believers. In v.6 these believers are not crucifying/shaming Christ which are of course sins. They have not repented but instead continue in sin - therefore it is impossible to renew them since their very actions demonstrate that they are not interested in repenting.I think you need to keep in mind the context of Hebrews 6.
These are Hebrews who followed the Old Covenant and were trying to figure out how Christ and His life, death and crucifiction changes things when they were under the Old Covenant.
In the Old Covenant they handled repentance and sin very different. There was an lamb or animal sent into the desert.
I think the important piece in this verse is that Christ cannot be recrucified. I think they are telling the Hebrews Christ is not a sacrifice that was done every year to atone for sins, but that Christ’s crucifiction only happened once.
And that is why it is talking about being impossible to be done over and over every year or whatever.
They had to explain that the animal sacrifices were no longer needed and Christ didn’t need to die every year as the Lamb of God.
In Hebrews 6:9 the writer expresses that he is convinced of better things of them, things that accompany salvation. These people had been Christians for years, probably decades. He seems frustrated that it's nessacary to go over basic doctrine again, they had anple time to mature in the faith. The theme is Christ is greater then the angels, Moses , the High Priest and the all important sanctuary. They would look to the Temple in the old covenant because God dwelled there. Now God dwells in the hearts of believers and the church is being built up as the body of Christ wherein the Holy Spirit dwells. 1 Corinthians 12 deals with this at length for Gentiles, Hebrews is expressing the same thing from a more Jewish perspective. It reminds me a lot of Galations with the urgency of not returning to the Old Testament shadows of the substance found only in Christ.
Grace and peace,
Mark
No Jason, it's not, it's an if then proposition specifically related to losing salvation due to adultry or murder. If for whatever reason you were to lose salvation you cannot be restored to repentance. Just because you have no answer for this doesn't mean it's off topic. I take it the commenrary you've looked at has yeilded little if anything to support the premise your try to argue. A similar verse describes repentance and being crucified with Christ vicariously Romans 6:9-10. He cannot die again, the death of Christ was a once and for alll time event in redemptive history. Hebrews 6:4-6 tells us the apostasy that results from falling away from the faith is a permanent condition.
You sure added a lot of your extra thoughts to that verse that the Bible doesn’t specify.Problem is these were Hebrews who became believers as they were ENLIGHTENED, TASTED OF HEAVENLY GIFT, and were PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. These are descriptors only of genuine believers. In v.6 these believers are not crucifying/shaming Christ which are of course sins. They have not repented but instead continue in sin - therefore it is impossible to renew them since their very actions demonstrate that they are not interested in repenting.
Can a Christian commit sin still after being saved? Yes indeed, for we still have that old sin nature that wants to rear up its ugly head, and if we submit to obeying that instead of God, we can still do just about anything !Unrelated passage to the topic of discussion of this thread. Please start another thread if you want to continue to talk about Hebrews 6:4-6. We are talking about King David on whether or not he was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder. We need passages or verses that are more directly in line with his situation. Hebrews 6:4-6 is unrelated because it is talking about apostasy and not backsliding.
When the Holy Spirit indwells a saved person, He will seal them until the Day of redemption, until the time when we are reunited in the physical resurrected body with our souls!Which allows for the plausible question of whether or not such a person truly trusted in Grace in the first place.
Really though since David was under the Old Covenant and sin was handled through the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood then David was saved while waiting for forgiveness through the next
Animal sacrifice.
In reality we cannot even hold him to New Covenant standards as he was under the Old Covenant.
However, we know because of the writings in Psalms by David that David realized that he needed to repent. Maybe this additional understanding by David without needing the command to repent is why God called him a man after God’s heart.
That makes the most sense to me Biblically
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?