War with North Korea

[Gxg (G²)]

Lord have mercy and save Thy people.

 

[Dorothea]

You agree with him about what, Dot?

I agree with him that it certainly is possible that our government gets us riled up or preps us for an upcoming war. I think that's how they got into Iraq. Our government used our emotional state at the time to get the OK to go the M.E.

 

[Dorothea]

It's truly heart breaking. Prayers for everyone over there, Kim Jong Un especially. I hope he backs down and mellows some.

Yes.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I just don't see how that is a legitimate speculation though. And I say that respectfully. We've watchted NK go for years now arming themselves and working on building intercontintal nukes. We've tried to get them to stop building them. They haven't. They will stop in the name of exchanging foodstuffs for their halting their programs, but in the end, six months later they're back at it again.

If you read the online stuff and such, which side is doing all the propaganda videos and trying to tell their country "we will wipe America off the map!" with all this theater and drama? What has Obama or the Senate or House done to try to convince the public to fight NK? I haven't heard a dang thing? And Obama has DOWNPLAYED the North Koreans, not warned us? I see no "mushroom cloud" speeches, no stern spooky threats from the president, no "axis of evil"-like terms used, and no posturing on our part?

I don't think G is crazy in his statement that we're in on this, but I think the concern is unwarranted IN THIS CASE (Iraq was the antithesis, but we can't blame the United States EVERY time another country acts insane, right?)...

I agree with him that it certainly is possible that our government gets us riled up or preps us for an upcoming war. I think that's how they got into Iraq. Our government used our emotional state at the time to get the OK to go the M.E.

 

[Dorothea]

I just don't see how that is a legitimate speculation though. And I say that respectfully. We've watchted NK go for years now arming themselves and working on building intercontintal nukes. We've tried to get them to stop building them. They haven't. They will stop in the name of exchanging foodstuffs for their halting their programs, but in the end, six months later they're back at it again.

If you read the online stuff and such, which side is doing all the propaganda videos and trying to tell their country "we will wipe America off the map!" with all this theater and drama? What has Obama or the Senate or House done to try to convince the public to fight NK? I haven't heard a dang thing? And Obama has DOWNPLAYED the North Koreans, not warned us? I see no "mushroom cloud" speeches, no stern spooky threats from the president, no "axis of evil"-like terms used, and no posturing on our part?

I don't think G is crazy in his statement that we're in on this, but I think the concern is unwarranted IN THIS CASE (Iraq was the antithesis, but we can't blame the United States EVERY time another country acts insane, right?)...

Oh, I know they have been like that for years. Probably since the time we went to war with them and the split happen with North and South. They probably still hold a grudge about that. It wouldn't be too odd to think from their perspective that we were perhaps butting into their country and believe we caused them troubles of numerous types.

I do think if we look at things objectively through history and look at all the wars we've been involved in, we have to ask why and what good did we do there? Some we certainly did do good. Some, it was a failure, etc. I just don't like this touting, arrogant idea (and you don't have that. I'm speaking generally from some people's comments I've read or I've talked to in the past up til now) that the U.S. is always right and everything we do is for the betterment of mankind and all the world. I believe that's garbage.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

.. it certainly is possible that our government gets us riled up or preps us for an upcoming war. I think that's how they got into Iraq. Our government used our emotional state at the time to get the OK to go the M.E.

For all the Iraq Christians that were wiped out in the process, it'll never be an issue for them of America always being benevolent in intentions - and likewise, for the North Koreans harmed by what the U.S chooses to do in intervening (even as North Koreans note what they've done as Christians to impact the area), it may do more damage than good.

I simply cannot overlook the fact that we violated a lot on our part over the years in trying to incense them intentionally - knowing good and well some of the leadership is already unstable (like picking on someone with extreme mood swings or bi-polar and then saying they "attacked without cause" if they respond to where we tease).

 

[Dorothea]

For all the Iraq Christians that were wiped out in the process, it'll never be an issue for them of America always being benevolent in intentions - and likewise, for the North Koreans harmed by what the U.S chooses to do in intervening (even as North Koreans note what they've done as Christians to impact the area), it may do more damage than good.

I simply cannot overlook the fact that we violated a lot on our part over the years in trying to incense them intentionally - knowing good and well some of the leadership is already unstable (like picking on someone with extreme mood swings or bi-polar and then saying they "attacked without cause" if they respond to where we tease).

Yes, we have to see what the outcome would do before we ever get involved in war with other countries or invade them as we have in many cases. We don't ever seem to look that far ahead. That seems very unintelligent. Anyway, I agree that other countries' people see us much differently than we do about what we've done. I don't blame them.

With the invasion of Iraq, it had a terrible effect on, yes, the Christians there, as well as Iraqi citizens all together, and the surrounding countries because they ended up with many thousands or more refugees there and it put a lot of hardship on those countries as well.

Also, the invasion in Iraq caused many Muslim neighbors that got along fine with their Christian neighbors before that mess, to attack them for what the US had done as a type of revenge thinking because of the way our president at the time would talk about his belief in Jesus Christ and all, tied it together and brought about many killings of our Christian brethren there and throughout the Middle East. Very sad.

It is also understandable for some Koreans to not like Americans as well. Of course, the North Korean government not liking us makes perfect sense. We tried to help out the people of Korea from communism...or so that was what I was brought up to believe why we were in Vietnam and Korea. I don't know if that's really the full truth.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

it certainly is possible that our government gets us riled up or preps us for an upcoming war. I think that's how they got into Iraq. Our government used our emotional state at the time to get the OK to go the M.E.

As shared earlier, I truly do think Christine Hong and Hyun Lee gave the best kind of analysis on the situation when detailing - point for poont - the ways that the U.S seemed to be deliberately going into a hostile area.....and trying to agitate on purpose without wisdom...as seen in Foreign Policy in Focus 2/15/13.

There is no escaping that on the very day that Kim visited Mu Island, 80,000 U.S. and South Korean troops were gearing up for the annual Ulchi Freedom Guardian . ..and for the first time in its history, this war exercise included a simulation of a pre-emptive attack by South Korean artillery units in an all-out war scenario against North Korea. Although it is a defensive exercise in preparation for an attack by the north, the joint U.S./South Korea war games took on a decidedly offensive characteristic since Kim Jong Il's death. And when a South Korean military official discussing the exercise raised red flags by mentioning the possibility of responding to potential North Korean provocation with asymmetric retaliation, a direct violation of UN rules of engagement in warfare, who is to say that we're innocent?? Anyone with political wisdom knows you don't go into enemy territory - intentionally agitate them when there is already high tension......and then claim that their further actions are simply more evidence of aggression.


Many more things besides that...

But that is not accident. And as said before, it's bizzare to consider that we'd be making threats to the North Koreans if they started doing nuke testing in simulation off our shores of Hawaii or California - and yet we act as if it was not without cause that North Korea made threats of retaliation with the South/U.S when they saw how the Unites States was running practice drills dropping dud tactical nukes on islands off the shores of North Korea.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yes, we have to see what the outcome would do before we ever get involved in war with other countries or invade them as we have in many cases. We don't ever seem to look that far ahead. That seems very unintelligent. Anyway, I agree that other countries' people see us much differently than we do about what we've done. I don't blame them.

Going into a place without getting all the facts is always a bad deal - and it makes a difference when it comes to seeing the ways that we're exactly like the image we place on other places. THere's a reason many have noted that the U.S is truly an Empire.

With the invasion of Iraq, it had a terrible effect on, yes, the Christians there, as well as Iraqi citizens all together, and the surrounding countries because they ended up with many thousands or more refugees there and it put a lot of hardship on those countries as well.

Also, the invasion in Iraq caused many Muslim neighbors that got along fine with their Christian neighbors before that mess, to attack them for what the US had done as a type of revenge thinking because of the way our president at the time would talk about his belief in Jesus Christ and all, tied it together and brought about many killings of our Christian brethren there and throughout the Middle East. Very sad.

Indeed - it was interesting that Osama bin Laden was able to so easily invoke the image of "Crusaders" when he rallied al-Qaeda terrorists to strike Westerners..for in the Muslim world, it was Christianity merged with Western Imperialism that was harming their world (and with a lot of verification for that when seeing the ways people in the Middle-East were exploited, demeaned and misrepresented for a long time by us). And it makes sense that advisers quickly told President Bush to drop the word crusade from his speeches about the war against terrorism. ..for to them, it seemed that they were forced to deal with aggression in the name of Christianity - really Imperialistic Christianity rather than Biblical. And as a result, many blamed the Christians in the Middle East as helping them.

Not all Muslims agreed to how the Christians were treated, leading to them being mistreated as well (specifically, those whom many w[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7697251-11/#post61686588"]ould call "moderates" when in truth they simply represented a stream of thought in the Muslim world that many in the West were not aware of due to the stereotype they were trained to accept of all terrorists [/URL].....due to 9/11 and other events that allowed for guilt-by-association ideology in saying anyone Middle-Eastern or Muslims/associated with Muslims must be prone to terrorism.....even as it has occurred with people accusing President ).

Sad indeed..

It is also understandable for some Koreans to not like Americans as well. Of course, the North Korean government not liking us makes perfect sense. We tried to help out the people of Korea from communism...or so that was what I was brought up to believe why we were in Vietnam and Korea. I don't know if that's really the full truth.

Honestly,

I have never had it in my mind for one second that the North Korean government is a spotless institution that was never harmful to others - but when I consider what has happened with the Cold War, it often seemed like it was more so a battle on ideologies. Capitalism was championed by the West/U.S whereas Communism was championed by the East/China (in connection with Russia) and it seemed the U.S was often saying they wanted to contain what they deemed to be a threat in Communism since the COLD War left two dominant nations in the world as the main superpowers..

This was ironic in light of all the "Red Scares" that went on in the U.S before/during WWII whenever others were trained to be terrified of communism - never mind that many amazing things happened with communism and other groups (especially in the Black community) supported communist organizations since they supported the struggles they experienced - whereas much of what was seen in capitalistic systems seemed to ignore the plights of others.


I am not saying communism was perfect - but there was a BIG reason so many didn't really have a lot of faith in the American system....and in Asian culture, there is a big collectvist ideology/mindset deeply rooted in the cultures there so communism would naturally seem attractive..MORE so than the individualism expressed in Democratic nations. With Russia spreading its influence to the Asian world, the U.S seemed to not want the balance of power to shift to the Communist ideology expressed in those governments- imperfect as they were (and often guilty of a lot of errors) and yet being a mirror for the American Democratic worldview which tended to do the same in differing ways with mistreating others.

Even with Communism spreading throughout Asia, many groups felt that the U.S was just as trecherous as any of the camps going against others like North Korea or Vietnam - and one of the greatest examples is what happened with the Hmong (of Laos, who were scattered all over the world after being abandoned by the U.S to the Communists ....despite all the claims by the U.S that they were fighting to establish democracy in Asia. The U.S waged a war by proxy with using the people of Laos against other nations for Communism. However, when the U.S felt it wasn't really a big deal to keep fighting against the Communist groups in Laos, they bailed out on the people who chose to fight for them.....and then those people were not just harmed by the Communist take-over - but they were later mistreated in the U.S and not acknowledged for the harm they experienced or the sacrifices they made when they became refugees in the U.S

With North Korea, again, I don't think they're perfect by a long-shot - but I think we have to be honest when it comes to seeing that our being against them was NEVER solely about human lives being protected - for it was also about ideology and addressing the ways their existence was a big representation of the ways others felt let down by the aggressive neglect done by many Capitalistic systmes globally. Currently, in the communist systems over there, they're not necessarily the same as before - as many are actively thriving and competing with other places (even though some are more socialistic-leaning like the Socialist Republic of Vietnam finding their way out of poverty by using the model they do).....and that's a big threat to the systems opposite of that which support the U.S.

History wise, as said elsewhere, I've been intrigued seeing the ways that there are differing levels of Communsit thought (just as it is with Capitalist thought) and seen other believers note where they supported things like anarcho-communism and even felt that the Byzantine Empire itself was Communist on multiple levels ( #29 #57, #66 , #68 #78, #82 , #86 , #89, #17 / and #16 ) - and historically, with many in the African American community, they were hard workers/patriots and yet they either worked with Communist organizations aiding the community when others didn't (as Martin Luther King did, #51 )...or they themselves were COmmunists (more shared here in #46 , . The communist label often seems to generate a lot of controversy where they may be none due to the image that others have when thinking on the U.S.S.R and Stalin - even though that wasn't the representation for all forms of it just like the crazy (as seen in #64 )/greedy folks who got insanely rich and ruthless with the poor during the Industrial Revolution aren't what others define as all capitalist.


It's always an issue of dominance - and finding ways to demonize all aspects of the systems you compete with while making your own history look more glamorious than it is ..or making your current state look like the goal. All systems are flawed outside of Christ - and neither the U.S or North Korea have seen that yet.

 

[Dorothea]

Going into a place without getting all the facts is always a bad deal - and it makes a difference when it comes to seeing the ways that we're exactly like the image we place on other places. THere's a reason many have noted that the U.S is truly an Empire.

Indeed - it was interesting that Osama bin Laden was able to so easily invoke the image of "Crusaders" when he rallied al-Qaeda terrorists to strike Westerners..for in the Muslim world, it was Christianity merged with Western Imperialism that was harming their world (and with a lot of verification for that when seeing the ways people in the Middle-East were exploited, demeaned and misrepresented for a long time by us). And it makes sense that advisers quickly told President Bush to drop the word crusade from his speeches about the war against terrorism. ..for to them, it seemed that they were forced to deal with aggression in the name of Christianity - really Imperialistic Christianity rather than Biblical. And as a result, many blamed the Christians in the Middle East as helping them.

Not all Muslims agreed to how the Christians were treated, leading to them being mistreated as well (specifically, those whom many w[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7697251-11/#post61686588"]ould call "moderates" when in truth they simply represented a stream of thought in the Muslim world that many in the West were not aware of due to the stereotype they were trained to accept of all terrorists[/URL] .....due to 9/11 and other events that allowed for guilt-by-association ideology in saying anyone Middle-Eastern must be prone to terrorism).

Sad indeed..
Honestly,

I have never had it in my mind for one second that the North Korean government is a spotless institution that was never harmful to others - but when I consider what has happened with the Cold War, it often seemed like it was more so a battle on ideologies. Capitalism was championed by the West/U.S whereas Communism was championed by the East/China (in connection with Russia) and it seemed the U.S was often saying they wanted to contain what they deemed to be a threat in Communism since the COLD War left two dominant nations in the world as the main superpowers..

This was ironic in light of all the "Red Scares" that went on in the U.S before/during WWII whenever others were trained to be terrified of communism - never mind that many amazing things happened with communism and other groups (especially in the Black community) supported communist organizations since they supported the struggles they experienced - whereas much of what was seen in capitalistic systems seemed to ignore the plights of others.


I am not saying communism was perfect - but there was a BIG reason so many didn't really have a lot of faith in the American system....and in Asian culture, there is a big collectvist ideology/mindset deeply rooted in the cultures there so communism would naturally seem attractive..MORE so than the individualism expressed in Democratic nations. With Russia spreading its influence to the Asian world, the U.S seemed to not want the balance of power to shift to the Communist ideology expressed in those governments- imperfect as they were (and often guilty of a lot of errors) and yet being a mirror for the American Democratic worldview which tended to do the same in differing ways with mistreating others.

Even with Communism spreading throughout Asia, many groups felt that the U.S was just as trecherous as any of the camps going against others like North Korea or Vietnam - and one of the greatest examples is what happened with the Hmong (of Laos, who were scattered all over the world after being abandoned by the U.S to the Communists ....despite all the claims by the U.S that they were fighting to establish democracy in Asia. The U.S waged a war by proxy with using the people of Laos against other nations for Communism - but when the U.S felt it wasn't really a big deal to keep fighting, they bailed out on the people who chose to fight for them.....and then those people were not just harmed by the Communist take-over - but they were later mistreated in the U.S and not acknowledged for the harm they experienced or the sacrifices they made when they became refugees in the U.S

With North Korea, again, I don't think they're perfect by a long-shot - but I think we have to be honest when it comes to seeing that our being against them was NEVER solely about human lives being protected - for it was also about ideology and addressing the ways their existence was a big representation of the ways others felt let down by the aggressive neglect done by many Capitalistic systmes globally. Currently, in the communist systems over there, they're not necessarily the same as before - as many are actively thriving and competing with other places (even though some are more socialistic-leaning like the Socialist Republic of Vietnam finding their way out of poverty by using the model they do).....and that's a big threat to the systems opposite of that which support the U.S.

History wise, as said elsewhere, I've been intrigued seeing the ways that there are differing levels of Communsit thought (just as it is with Capitalist thought) and seen other believers note where they supported things like anarcho-communism and even felt that the Byzantine Empire itself was Communist on multiple levels ( #29 #57, #66 , #68 #78, #82 , #86 , #89, #17 / and #16 ) - and historically, with many in the African American community, they were hard workers/patriots and yet they either worked with Communist organizations aiding the community when others didn't (as Martin Luther King did, #51 )...or they themselves were COmmunists (more shared here in #46 , . The communist label often seems to generate a lot of controversy where they may be none due to the image that others have when thinking on the U.S.S.R and Stalin - even though that wasn't the representation for all forms of it just like the crazy (as seen in #64 )/greedy folks who got insanely rich and ruthless with the poor during the Industrial Revolution aren't what others define as all capitalist.


It's always an issue of dominance - and finding ways to demonize all aspects of the systems you compete with while making your own history look more glamorious than it is ..or making your current state look like the goal. All systems are flawed outside of Christ - and neither the U.S or North Korea have seen that yet.

I remember a podcast I listened to a year or so ago by Fr. Tom Hopko, and he was talking about our invasion into Iraq. He said, "We can't bomb people into a democracy." He made a lot of sense to me.

Also, I agree with you on much of what you said. I do think communism kills and yes, power by the few is the problem. I have heard that unfettered capitalism is the same as communism - only the elite few rule the whole system.

 

[MariaRegina]

I remember a podcast I listened to a year or so ago by Fr. Tom Hopko, and he was talking about our invasion into Iraq. He said, "We can't bomb people into a democracy." He made a lot of sense to me.

Also, I agree with you on much of what you said. I do think communism kills and yes, power by the few is the problem. I have heard that unfettered capitalism is the same as communism - only the elite few rule the whole system.

Perhaps that is why former communist countries are embracing capitalism.

Their leaders want to live the good life and know that they can continue to be corrupt and get away with it like Monsanto has. It is interesting how China was hoodwinked into the Monsanto deal.

Has Kim been deceived by Monsanto too? Do they grow GMO crops and is that part of their problem with starvation?

 

[Dorothea]

Perhaps that is why former communist countries are embracing capitalism.

Their leaders want to live the good life and know that they can continue to be corrupt and get away with it like Monsanto has. It is interesting how China was hoodwinked into the Monsanto deal.

Has Kim been deceived by Monsanto too? Do they grow GMO crops and is that part of their problem with starvation?

I have no idea. I really don't know too much of what the Korean government does (other than the starvation of their people and oppression).

 

[MariaRegina]

I have no idea. I really don't know too much of what the Korean government does (other than the starvation of their people and oppression).

The ungodly monopolists like Rockefeller, Bain Capital, and Monsanto strain our relations overseas and in South America. Undoubtedly, this provokes war with or without CIA cooperation, isn't this true?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I remember a podcast I listened to a year or so ago by Fr. Tom Hopko, and he was talking about our invasion into Iraq. He said, "We can't bomb people into a democracy." He made a lot of with" - as the fact of the matter is that hate will always produce more hate.....and some things are foolish regardless of intention. You cannot sense to me.

A quote worth remembering from Hopko -as it reminds me of another which said "You can kill a terrorist but you cannot erase through terror or violence the spirit of terrorism that influenced others to begin solve the problem of the Middle East with bombs when it's more complicated..

I agree with you on much of what you said. I do think communism kills and yes, power by the few is the problem. I have heard that unfettered capitalism is the same as communism - only the elite few rule the whole system.

There has never truly been a "Free Market" since it takes limitations on things to keep things from getting out of control - and depending on protection others get, you can often have it where others are sabotaged and only those with the connections can advance. And get as much as possible while taking from others..

Essentially, what you end up with is Vulture Capitalism ( #2/#116 /#110 / #161 #168 ) where you build your wealth by raping other places/taking what you wish (Mafia Style) and working with it to build something else - and the other form of Capitalism that does damage is Corporate Capitalism (or Crony Capitalism). Ultimately, it is indeed a matter of Neo-Feudalism - as Sister Thekla and I discussed elsewhere( #396 ,#398 , #406 ) ...and thus, the U.S is just as bad as anything it demonizes in Communism.

I agree with you on much of what you said. I do think communism kills and yes, power by the few is the problem. I have heard that unfettered capitalism is the same as communism - only the elite few rule the whole system.

I think it's often the case that cultures - even when they say they are against a certain ideology - are not against doing things that opposing cultures end up utilizing already.....having an underground economy that unites all sides in darker ways even while those sides are against each other above ground. For example, I was able to talk with one soldier who served in North Korea back in the 80s and it was amazing hearing some of the things he shared with me - specifically on all of the things he had deep regret for when seeing first hand how many were exploited over there by the U.S. When he and I talked on the ways the U.S harmed other nations that ended up connected to North Korea like Laos, he shared with me some information on the Heroine trade being a very big deal there.

As noted best in Heroin in brown, black and white: Structural factors and medical consequences in the US heroin market ......prior to 1980, heroin in the US was sourced from the three predominate producing regions in the world: Southeast Asia, aka the Golden Triangle of Myanmar (Burma), Laos and Thailand; Southwest Asia, i.e., Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran; and, to a minor degree, Mexico. The largest producer at that time was the triumvirate called the Golden Triangle, the name referring to the shape of the three constituent countries and the richness of the opium trade. Opium from the Golden Triangle accounted for 55% of the world’s opium in 1986 (United Nations Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention, 1999) and the heroin derived from it accounted for 19% of the US market (National Narcotics Intelligence Consumers Committee, 1992).

Interestingly enough, as Heroin/other drugs were a big deal in the South Asian economy (with the CIA being deeply connected with the Drug Distribution game around the world - including in nations that were against the U.S, more here in #4 / #9) the CIA also funded the people of Laos with smuggling Heroin drugs on planes into other areas to keep cash flow going for funding the war - and benefitting the U.S when it came to drug capitalism and funding through the black market (all in secret while publically saying Laos was "neutral" when the goal was to destabilize the country/bring it in line with U.S interests of capitalism so they could influence the region and more areas near it).

More specifically, the CIA’s complicity in drug trafficking/black market resulted from its alliance with the Hmong tribes who, since the 1950s, had been used by the French to fight Vietnamese leftists. As early as 1959, CIA operative Lucien Conein stated that eight teams were training Hmong tribesmen on the Plain of Jars...and in 1960 the CIA began recruiting units to patrol the border with China and even to send Yao and Lahu tribesmen into Yunnan province to monitor traffic/tap telephone lines. Operating out of Vientiane, the CIA also sent recruits to the patrol the Vietnam border as well as to send Green Beret commando units into North Vietnam to sabotage the Ho Chi Minh Trail. The largest goal of the CIA, as said before, was to wage secret war against the Pathet Lao in northern Laos....for from 1960 to 1974, the CIA maintained a secret army of approximately 30,000 tribesmen in the mountains of northern Laos which riginated with Vientiane CIA station chief Shackley and his Clines, The CIA used their own planes to get the drugs smuggled - and the CIA relied on the villagers to supply the manpower to continue to replace the wounded and killed....and in return for providing recruits, the Hmong opium growers received CIA support and their economy flourished. It became a harmful relationship in the end in light of what the drugs did later - especially with Drug Lords.....but it achieved a lot of things pragmatically for the U.S.

The CIA's policy of tolerance towards its Laotian allies did not change even when they began producing heroin to supply U.S. combat forces fighting in South Vietnam....as in 1968-1969, CIA assets opened a cluster of heroin laboratories in the Golden Triangle region where Burma, Thailand and Laos converge. When Hmong officers loaded opium on the CIA's Air America and the Lao army's commander-in-chief opened a heroin lab to supply U.S. troops in South Vietnam, the Agency was silent. All of this heroin was smuggled into South Vietnam. And by 1971, according to a White House survey, 34%, or more than one-third, of U.S. troops were addicted to heroin. ...and many felt that the Hmong people should not have been helped if they had heroin in their veins - even though the U.S helped in facilitating the Drug Trade because of how it helped in their war efforts. Essentially, instead of trying to restrain drug trafficking by its Laotian assets, the Agency participated in, engaged in, concealment and cover-up.



And that connects with NK getting involved since funding the Drug Trade gave them a greater market to work with. For more info (reference):

• Southeast Asia
• LAOS : The Secret War
• Laos' Secret Drug War Lives On - NAM
• The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia
• North Korea and Illegal Narcotics: Smoke but No Fire?
• North Korea's underground railroad to Thailand | Conflict
• War's Ontogeny: Militias and Ethnic Boundaries in Laos and Exile .
• Laos and the drugs trade: A second wind from the Golden Triangle
• Organized Crime: From Trafficking to Terrorism - Volume 1 - Page 142
• Constructing a Rogue State: American Post-Cold War Security Discourse and North Korean Drug Trafficking- Johnson ...
• War “on” drugs: The reasons and consequences of the CIA’s involvement in the drug trade and the phoney “war” against drug dealers. ... - UC San Diego

The CIA, Drug Trafficking and American Politics: The Political Economy of War ​

The Last CIA Whistleblower: Drug Trafficking, Training Terrorists, and the U.S Government​

Thus, for all the talk of capitalism benefiting the world, I do not find it surprising in the least that the only way for the U.S to combat the Communists they deemed as enemies was to fund/introduce on a GLOBAL scale the Drug Game...Narco Capitalism (which has destroyed thousands of lives in the U.S/worldwide)...through utilizing Black Market/secret sources as a means of supporting the PUBLIC face of Capitalism in forms that many were comfortable accepting in what they considered to be the "Free Market."

And that puts us on the SAME level as North Korea since NK was also for Government-Sponsored Drug Trafficking (one of its many illicit/illegal international activities) ..regardless of if it harms the people. And for anyone who has seen the grave impact of drugs on others - the ways it PUSHES people toward violence and causes them to do whatever it takes to get a high while drug - dealers make wild amounts of $$$$$$$$$ that governments often benefit from off the books........it's no small issue.

It's bad enough to see what the CIA has gotten involved in over the years - particularly as it concerns the places we've gotten involved...

But the Drug game was one of the DARKEST events that the CIA ever funded - and still benefits from, be it in Asia or here in the U.S

No one's hands are without blood on them...and the U.S and NK are united EVEN when they say they are against one another. Just follow the money trail...and see the ways that we've also been directly connected for sponsoring what we condemn as a rouge state. You don't condemn a monster you helped to create by trying to distance yourself from where you supported the same activities that you helped formulate when a monster utilizes them.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Perhaps that is why former communist countries are embracing capitalism.

Their leaders want to live the good life and know that they can continue to be corrupt and get away with it like Monsanto has. It is interesting how China was hoodwinked into the Monsanto deal.

Has Kim been deceived by Monsanto too? Do they grow GMO crops and is that part of their problem with starvation?

Technically, for many countries that were communists, it was never the case that it was ever 100% communist - as the economics allowed them to keep communist ideology while also having markets to a limited degree. In example, China has long been an economic giant - even in times where it has not sought to play by the rules - and has advanced in a myriad of ways since Deng Xiaoping brought China into limited capitalist-socialist hybrid territory while retaining their Communist Ethos ( #68 ) - State Capitalism - and it has allowed them to reach the point where they are really the ones who are calling A LOT of the shots in the Economic world...including our own debt/tabs. They are already tied to the history of the U.S in its economic success due to how China even extended its reach in the U.S to help build much of what made U.S expansion possibly in the first place....as seen in the ways that China supplied many of its people to the U.S for construction projects and the Chinese Americans were abused during the government building of the railroad systems throughout the history of the U.S...and still have many of their rights consistently ignored by the government...despite how hard they work and seek to make buisnesses/adapt to many of the struggles coming their way.

That said, I am not surprised that China got connected with Monsanto/other corrupt corporations since it's about money and China may be of the mindset that they can handle being in bed with them - and no matter what the system is, a good organization can end up being taken over for the wrong reasons. It will never cease to amaze me how Mao ended up being so ruthlessly terroristic - and yet he used to be a peasant himself who fought in the Boxer Rebellion in the name of helping the people.......and prior to that, the same thing occurred with Lenin, who I can sympathize with on some level ( #64 ). Historically, Karl Marx promoted Marxist-Leninist socialism (communism from a Western perspective), not "democratic socialism" - which might account for the difference between North Korea, Laos, Vietnam, Nepal, Cuba, and the People's Republic of China as compared to Norway, Sweden and the Netherlands (which have similarities with communist governments)

The Communist Revolution did involve others fighting against tyranny in one form of government - and yet later, they found themselves doing a lot of the same things that may've been done to them.....and even Lenin was betrayed when many started to see how the talk of "equality" was used to hide the fact that others were deemed more "equal" than others - and later, it was taken over/became nothing more than another form of oppressive monarchy that spoke as if it was against a monarch concept.

The book "Animal Farm" by George Orwell is truly one of the best critiques/satires on the issue. The revolt of the animals against Farmer Jones is Orwell's analogy with the October 1917 Bolshevik Revolution, and Jones's attempt to regain control, with the aid of neighbouring farmers, parallels the Western powers' efforts in 1918-21 to crush the Bolsheviks. The pigs' rise to pre-eminence mirrors the rise of a Stalinist bureaucracy in the USSR, just as Napoleon's emergence as the farm's sole leader reflects Stalin's emergence..and the pigs' appropriation of milk and apples for their own use, "the turning point of the story" as Orwell termed it in a letter to Dwight Macdonald, stands as an analogy for the crushing of the left-wing 1921 Kronstadt revolt against the Bolsheviks, and the difficult efforts of the animals to build the windmill suggest the various Five Year Plans...while the pigs' treatment of the other animals on the farm recalls the internal terror faced by the populace in the 1930s. Orwell had deep conviction that the Bolshevik revolution had been corrupted and the Soviet system become dark - as Orwell supported the goals of the socialists and yet condemned what it was turned into with the Soviets/U.S.S.R and Orwell himself wrote in 1946, "Of course I intended it primarily as a satire on the Russian revolution..[and] that kind of revolution (violent conspiratorial revolution, led by unconsciously power hungry people) can only lead to a change of masters [-] revolutions only effect a radical improvement when the masses are alert.." What happened is that the Trotskyists sought to fight one form of corruption but opened the door for others to use the movement that was started to address an issue...and in the process, hijack a movement for their own ends in the name of good (more shared here, here , here, here and here) - and the same occurred with many fighting for Capitalism/Democracy.

Where there are men who want power, you'll always have others who turn any system into a destructive force - and truthfully, it's why I am not surprised why you see an exchange of mess....many in former communist countries embracing capitalism because of the ways they can make profit at the expense of others - and us in the U.S (and other Western Nations) embracing much of what happened in certain communist countries where the individual was sacrificed for the State - even as the STATE was controlled by select individuals deemd more equal than others. All of it being a matter of corruption on a GLOBAL scale...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The ungodly monopolists like Rockefeller, Bain Capital, and Monsanto strain our relations overseas and in South America. Undoubtedly, this provokes war with or without CIA cooperation

So true what you noted here - as those who are concerned for money could care less who gets killed - so long as they get paid. Much in the same way as it is with the underground Black Market when it comes to Arms/Weapons Dealers or those in the Banks who finance dark activities.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I have heard that unfettered capitalism is the same as communism - only the elite few rule the whole system.

The only system that will truly last (and have aspects of all systems - including capitalism and communism - that are positive) is the Kingdom of Christ. Kingdom Totalatarinism.....

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Education in North Korea is universal and state funded, with a national literacy rate of 99%. .

That is pretty amazing to see that they do champion literacy in their nation and make education a big deal.

 

[Wesley1982]

While being plugged-in to the News ... Is there a connection between the viewer and the T.V. Media?..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

While being plugged-in to the News ... Is there a connection between the viewer and the T.V. Media?..

Curious as to what you may mean by that. Do you mean spiritual connection or the ability to download when you view?