Voting rights vs Gun Rights

[NxNW]

It is easier to vote legally than to legally purchase a firearm (but you need a valid ID for both).

But each of them have different definitions of 'valid', which is part of the problem.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

He didn't say it at the link you provided.

Did you click on the video in the link?

 

[NxNW]

Did you click on the video in the link?

Yes.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Simple question. I hear from many people that voter ID laws are wrong because voting is a constitutional right. But owning a firearm is a constitutional right too. So why is it wrong to require photo identification to vote but not wrong to require a photo identification (and background check) to own a firearm? I would love to someone to explain that to me

I think id should be required for both for different reasons. Obviously for a gun to make sure the person is legal to purchase a gun. I think voter ID cuts down of the possibility of fraud. Just because it is a constitutional right does not mean we cannot put reasonable restrictions on them.

 

[NxNW]

I think voter ID cuts down of the possibility of fraud. Just because it is a constitutional right does not mean we cannot put reasonable restrictions on them.

How do you plan to have mail-in voters show ID?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

How do you plan to have mail-in voters show ID?

Well there are different methods being employed already. Such as notaries, copy of ID, asking some questions and then comparing that to the rest of their information, comparing signatures, only registered people get ballots, etc.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Yes.

Did you actually listen to what Biden was saying in the video?

 

[grasping the after wind]

It’s not a "thought process," it’s based on actual data which shows that minorities are less likely to have an ID. The thought process comes in when people have tried to figure out why that is the case.

Where is this data found?

The poor are more likely to not be able to afford the necessary documents. Minorities are more likely to be poor.

I believe even the poor can afford free. Georgia offers ID free of charge.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I understand the confusion. I don’t have time to look up links and post them, but I’d suggest researching specifically what the barriers are for ppl to get ID’s, there are a number of in depth articles out there on it. It’s not the actual ID so much as the other documents that are required for ID that a lot of poor and older folks don’t have or can’t get quickly and cheaply. Birth certificates primarily.

$25.00 is a fairly cheap price to pay in order to be able to purchase alcohol, collect Social security or other government assistance for which one needs ID and be able to cast a vote. Of course if one is not born a US citizen one might have a harder time obtaining a document that said one was born in the US. then again Georgia doesn;t seem to require that one submit a birth certificate in ore der to obtain a free ID.

How To Apply For An ID Card In Georgia | DMV.com

"What You Need to Get a Free Georgia Voter Identification Card
Georgia requires that all would-be voters to have some form of qualifying identity card to actually cast their votes. Residents who do not possess any of the required forms of ID may qualify for a free voter identification card. These cards are available from any County Registrar’s Office, or any Georgia Drivers Licensing Service Center, free-of-charge.

To apply for a card at a registrar’s office, applicants must provide certain documents. These include:

• An approved identity document (photo or non-photo) showing their full, true names and date of birth.
• Proof that they are registered to vote.
• Documentation of their physical addresses."

Fees | Georgia Department of Public Health

 

[NxNW]

I believe even the poor can afford free. Georgia offers ID free of charge.

It's the documentation to obtain the free ID that can be expensive.

 

[Sparagmos]

Where is this data found?

This study shows a breakdown in various areas of I.D. possession by race
https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-14-634.pdf#page30

I believe even the poor can afford free. Georgia offers ID free of charge.

It’s not the I.D. itself that can be hard to get, it’s the documents needed to get the I.D. Particularly a birth certificate, which many older black Americans have been unable to find or acquire. The last time I had to get a new copy of my birth certificate, I had to pay and have it mailed and the process was not quick.

 

[grasping the after wind]

It's the documentation to obtain the free ID that can be expensive.

What would it cost?

 

[Sparagmos]

$25.00 is a fairly cheap price to pay in order to be able to purchase alcohol, collect Social security or other government assistance for which one needs ID and be able to cast a vote. Of course if one is not born a US citizen one might have a harder time obtaining a document that said one was born in the US. then again Georgia doesn;t seem to require that one submit a birth certificate in ore der to obtain a free ID.

How To Apply For An ID Card In Georgia | DMV.com

"What You Need to Get a Free Georgia Voter Identification Card
Georgia requires that all would-be voters to have some form of qualifying identity card to actually cast their votes. Residents who do not possess any of the required forms of ID may qualify for a free voter identification card. These cards are available from any County Registrar’s Office, or any Georgia Drivers Licensing Service Center, free-of-charge.

To apply for a card at a registrar’s office, applicants must provide certain documents. These include:

• An approved identity document (photo or non-photo) showing their full, true names and date of birth.
• Proof that they are registered to vote.
• Documentation of their physical addresses."

Fees | Georgia Department of Public Health

I’m not sure why you are citing the cost of an I.D when I specifically stated that it’s the cost and difficulty of getting the other documents needed in order to get I.D. are the issue.

 

[grasping the after wind]

This study shows a breakdown in various areas of I.D. possession by race
https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-14-634.pdf#page30



It’s not the I.D. itself that can be hard to get, it’s the documents needed to get the I.D. Particularly a birth certificate, which many older black Americans have been unable to find or acquire. The last time I had to get a new copy of my birth certificate, I had to pay and have it mailed and the process was not quick.

Don't need a birth certificate to get a free ID in Georgia as I posted above #89. I also noted the price for a copy of a birth certificate in Georgia is $25.00. which seems to be the going rate in many states. so even if a birth certificate was necessary and I never had any ID I think I would jump at the chance to be able for just $25.00 to do so many things that would have previously not been open to me such as buying alcohol, applying for welfare , food stamps, Medicaid and Social Security, open a bank account, pick up a prescription, board an airplane, attend a political convention, etc etc. . To think that there are so many people out there who cannot do or have access to these things because they somehow find it too difficult or too expensive to get an ID is overwhelming. Perhaps we should all band together and pool our resources to make sure no one is without one? Some foundation we could construct to pay the tiny fees needed to acquire the few documents necessary to open up a world of possibilities for the truly needy?

 

[Sparagmos]

Don't need a birth certificate to get a free ID in Georgia as I posted above #89. I also noted the price for a copy of a birth certificate in Georgia is $25.00. which seems to be the going rate in many states. so even if a birth certificate was necessary and I never had any ID I think I would jump at the chance to be able for just $25.00 to do so many things that would have previously not been open to me such as buying alcohol, applying for welfare , food stamps, Medicaid and Social Security, open a bank account, pick up a prescription, board an airplane, attend a political convention, etc etc. . To think that there are so many people out there who cannot do or have access to these things because they somehow find it too difficult or too expensive to get an ID is overwhelming. Perhaps we should all band together and pool our resources to make sure no one is without one? Some foundation we could construct to pay the tiny fees needed to acquire the few documents necessary to open up a world of possibilities for the truly needy?

You should have read just a bit further down the page. If it’s not a birth certificate, it’s another document they are unlikely to have. And this discussion isn’t limited to Georgia. I had to have a birth certificate to get an ID in Oregon. I’ve never served in the military and didn’t have a passport.

What do you need to get an ID in Georgia?
Most residents will need a Secure ID, Georgia’s REAL ID-compliant option. As such, the documents needed for state ID include any one of the following forms of primary identification:

• A U.S. passport or passport card (valid or expired less than 10 years)
• An original or certified copy of a U.S. birth certificate or a Consular Report of Birth Abroad
• A DHS Certificate of Naturalization (form N-550 or N-570)
• A DHS Certificate of Citizenship (form N-560 or N-561)
• SSA Numident Records or Original US Military Discharge Papers (applies only to applicants born before January 1, 1940)
• 
  Edit: AND many people can’t get or find their birth certificate because of bad record keeping, particularly older black people. I think I’ve already mentioned this?

 

[NxNW]

What would it cost?

Depends. But since you admit there is a cost, we now have established that voting has a fee. We call that a poll tax, which is illegal.

 

[NxNW]

Perhaps we should all band together and pool our resources to make sure no one is without one? Some foundation we could construct to pay the tiny fees needed to acquire the few documents necessary to open up a world of possibilities for the truly needy?

Sounds like socialism. Conservatives would obviously oppose it.

 

[NxNW]

I see negative value in uneducated votes

Some might say belief in the supernatural is an indication of being uneducated.

 

[NxNW]

Well there are different methods being employed already. Such as notaries, copy of ID, asking some questions and then comparing that to the rest of their information, comparing signatures, only registered people get ballots, etc.

Notaries cost money, and they are unreliable. Asking questions can be slanted to make it harder for certain demographics to pass, ie Jim Crow. Etc.

 

[NxNW]

Y I know that there is an extremely small number of people who do not have a photo ID. But if they can make their way to a polling booth, they can sure make their way to the DMV.

At which point the GOP will be sure to shut down the DMV in minority areas.