Voting rights vs Gun Rights

[Oompa Loompa]

I wonder if any (other) country does ID free elections

Probably in banana republics in which the votes don't matter because the elections are rigged.

 

[RDKirk]

I don't think Australia has the same 'citizenship' problems we face.

Actually, it has. Lots of "boat people."

 

[Oompa Loompa]

You do realize, don't you, that you don't know everybody and you haven't been every place?

And you do realize that the ID requirement is not the only issue, right?

Yes...I realize that I don't know everyone. I know that there is an extremely small number of people who do not have a photo ID. But if they can make their way to a polling booth, they can sure make their way to the DMV. Who knows, perhaps this whole covid passport will eventually be used as a national ID (what democrats have been wanting for a long time) and can be accepted at polling stations.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I would like to note that as of right now 91% of our small polling sample are in favor of voter identification requirements.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm hearing that your 'citizenship' problem is just an excuse for voter suppression. This is also consistent with the use of gerrymandering.
OB

There is no deliberate voter suppression here.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Good reason not to encourage the clueless to vote.

Most voters are clueless regarding how their 'candidate' was nominated, so there's that.

 

[Sparagmos]

So perhaps the greater issue to the voter identification laws are ensuring that all eligible voters have photo identification. Which isn't a wide spread problem.. Not voter suppression.

Just as a reminder, voter ID has been the law in Georgia for a long time. The new law is about other stuff. But a lot of right wing sources are giving the impression that this is all about voter ID. it’s not.

 

[Sparagmos]

Are you suggesting that I am too poor or dumb to go to the dmv and get an ID?

You’re the one who said that people think that. Why would you ask me that question? I’ve be said nothing even remotely implying that.

I’m happy to comment on it, however. Whites hold 8 times the wealth of blacks in the u.s. So yes, blacks are more likely to be poor. And, a fewer percentage of blacks have I.D. Those are facts.

 

[Sparagmos]

I know I find it hard to believe that anyone truly thinks that a black person would uniquely find it extremely difficult to acquire ID if a that black person did not already have one. Nor believe that there are a large population among black people that don't already possess ID. I find that sort of thought process, just as you have suggested, to be extremely racist in that it assumes that black people are less able in some way to accomplish a very simple and easy thing. Since the Georgia law does not require voters to pay for ID, but will provide them free of charge, being poor is not a handicap to getting an ID. Even if one were to subscribe to Biden's racist assumption that people of color are the only poor " poor kids are as bright as white kids" it would seem that the ID portion of the Georgia law does pose a problem for the black population of Georgia anymore than anyone else. I expect that if the state of Georgia was giving away free peaches there would be just as many black citizens as white ones that would take advantage of it. Why would I think the at this would not be the case when it is giving away free ID?

Voter ID | Georgia Department of Driver Services

It’s not a "thought process," it’s based on actual data which shows that minorities are less likely to have an ID. The thought process comes in when people have tried to figure out why that is the case.

 

[Sparagmos]

Good reason not to encourage the clueless to vote.

I was being hyperbolic. Do you have a proposal for how we keep "clueless" people from voting?

 

[Estrid]

I was being hyperbolic. Do you have a proposal for how we keep "clueless" people from voting?

No, but I dont think efforts to coax
people to vote are a good idea.

 

[Sparagmos]

I know I find it hard to believe that anyone truly thinks that a black person would uniquely find it extremely difficult to acquire ID if a that black person did not already have one. Nor believe that there are a large population among black people that don't already possess ID. I find that sort of thought process, just as you have suggested, to be extremely racist in that it assumes that black people are less able in some way to accomplish a very simple and easy thing. Since the Georgia law does not require voters to pay for ID, but will provide them free of charge, being poor is not a handicap to getting an ID. Even if one were to subscribe to Biden's racist assumption that people of color are the only poor " poor kids are as bright as white kids" it would seem that the ID portion of the Georgia law does pose a problem for the black population of Georgia anymore than anyone else. I expect that if the state of Georgia was giving away free peaches there would be just as many black citizens as white ones that would take advantage of it. Why would I think the at this would not be the case when it is giving away free ID?

Voter ID | Georgia Department of Driver Services

I understand the confusion. I don’t have time to look up links and post them, but I’d suggest researching specifically what the barriers are for ppl to get ID’s, there are a number of in depth articles out there on it. It’s not the actual ID so much as the other documents that are required for ID that a lot of poor and older folks don’t have or can’t get quickly and cheaply. Birth certificates primarily.

 

[Sparagmos]

No, but I dont think efforts to coax
people to vote are a good idea.

Coax people to vote? Meaning you don’t see value in increasing the number of people voting?

 

[Estrid]

Coax people to vote? Meaning you don’t see value in increasing the number of people voting?

I see negative value in uneducated votes

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Just as a reminder, voter ID has been the law in Georgia for a long time. The new law is about other stuff. But a lot of right wing sources are giving the impression that this is all about voter ID. it’s not.

I don't remember the Georgia law ever being mentioned in the OP. But just out of curiosity, what other stuff are you talking about?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

You’re the one who said that people think that. Why would you ask me that question? I’ve be said nothing even remotely implying that.

I’m happy to comment on it, however. Whites hold 8 times the wealth of blacks in the u.s. So yes, blacks are more likely to be poor. And, a fewer percentage of blacks have I.D. Those are facts.

So why can't black folk get an ID if they are free in almost all states?

 

[Sparagmos]

I see negative value in uneducated votes

So you’d be in favor of limiting voting to people with degrees or something?

 

[RDKirk]

Back in the 90s, I had to help my mother get her birth certificate from Arkansas. I called the county she was born in and asked the clerk.

The woman was very polite, but she searched and searched...no birth certificate for my mother could be found. She asked me to call back the next day, while she would continue to look.

The next day...she still couldn't find it. Nor had she found it the day after that.

Finally, she hesitated a moment and then asked, "Pardon me for asking...but is your mother black?"

I said, "Yes."

She said, "Oh!" Then five minutes later: "I found it!"

The birth certificates in that county were still separated by race (at least those dating back to when they were separated by race).

Also in the 90s, I had the opportunity to do some community service in Montgomery, Alabama, that involved a young elementary school teacher and I going through old county school records stored in stacks and stacks of boxes, putting them in order so a team could properly file them. We had spent most of the day working on the records when we finally got to one of the boxes in the very back of the room. After a while as we tallied the records in that box, the young teacher, a white woman from North Dakota, suddenly noticed that all of them had listed the race as "colored"...which hadn't been noted in any of the other boxes, but was consistent on all the records in this box.

I had already noticed that...and I understood why, which I had to explain to the young lady. I also already knew that in those years, such school records were the only records black people often had.

I suspect there are lots of birth certificate issues for many people who were born in rural areas fifty or more years ago, and particularly if they were the records of blacks stuck in a separate box.

 

[NxNW]

What does anything in the article have to do with people being unable to get an ID because they were poor, black, Latino, or elderly?

The poor are more likely to not be able to afford the necessary documents. Minorities are more likely to be poor.

 

[NxNW]

Yes...he did.
https://twitter.com/CaliforniaPanda/status/1361864216509091840?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1361864216509091840|twgr^|twcon^s1_c10&ref_url=https://www.theblaze.com/news/biden-black-hispanic-americans-internet-to-find-vaccines

He didn't say it at the link you provided.