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Voting rights vs Gun Rights

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Sink' started by Oompa Loompa, Apr 7, 2021 at 2:44 PM.

  1. Require photo identification to both buy a gun and vote.

  2. Don't require identification for either voting or buying a gun because they are both constitutional

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    Simple question. I hear from many people that voter ID laws are wrong because voting is a constitutional right. But owning a firearm is a constitutional right too. So why is it wrong to require photo identification to vote but not wrong to require a photo identification (and background check) to own a firearm? I would love to someone to explain that to me
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 3:25 PM
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  2. Nithavela

    Nithavela Touch Fluffy Tail

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    I think you should need a photo ID for both, and that everyone should have a photo ID, which should be provided without hassle and for minimal cost.
     
  3. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    So what are your thoughts about the arguments against voter identification requirements?
     
  4. Nithavela

    Nithavela Touch Fluffy Tail

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    I only understand them from the argument that voter identification is complicated to get in the USA, at least in some places.
     
  5. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    EXPLANATION: You can't kill someone with a ballot.

    OB
     
  6. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    That is the argument, but that is not the case. I I don't know of a single person who was unable to get an ID for any reason. I don't know of a single person who doesn't have a photo id.
     
  7. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    Except when you vote somebody bad, or incompetent into office who makes bad decisions and gets people killed .... :(
     
  8. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    Perhaps not with a single ballot. But with enough fraudulent ballots legislation can be passed that can get people killed. But I would argue that is irrelevant. Is gun ownership a constitutional right or not? Or are some rights just more important than others?
     
  9. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Is voting guaranteed in the constitution?
     
  10. Nithavela

    Nithavela Touch Fluffy Tail

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    Maybe "people you know" is not a representative sample.
     
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  11. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    You can ruin more lives with a vote than a gun.
     
  12. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    Good point! Unlike the right to bear arms, which is explicitly stated in the constitution, Some believe that the right to vote is implicit, embedded in the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. So that fact only strengthens the case for voter identification.
     
  13. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    The representative sample includes my whole black family and everyone living in my black neighborhood. All of which support voter ID requirements.
     
  14. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    In my country gun ownership is not a constitutional right and Australians are strongly opposed to public gun ownership.

    Voting is compulsory and voter ID is only required in one state (Queensland) where a utility bill will be accepted as proof of identity. The idea of requiring voter identification has been investigated a number of times. The consistent finding has been that voter ID is a solution in search of a problem.

    OB
     
  15. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    Is voting a constitutional right in Australia? Because, unlike gun ownership,, nowhere in the U.S. constitution does it explicitly gives people the right to vote. It is only implied in the 14th Ammendment.
     
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  16. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    There is an interesting point made from a documentary I watched. I believe it was on the English Monarchy its laws, and it heritage, and how that became part of American law, culture etc. People tend to trace Democracy from the Greek heritage, but the Germanic heritage actually influenced the development of rights and democracy too in England as well. (Which actually kind of was one of those little tid bits I noticed watching the TV show Vikings but I'm getting ahead of myself).

    Anyway from the Germanic heritage came the ability to vote, but that came from bearing arms. You had a say in how things went because you would fight for the chieftain, King of whoever. And not only that, that was one way they taxed you, they often required you to spend so much time in military service etc.

    But that sort of thing has been true in other cultures as well. But the other point to that is that being armed is one major distinction that differentiates free people from slaves and surfs, throughout the World and history. Basically if you go around the World you will almost always find that conquered people, enslaved people are disarmed by the ruling party so they will be helpless and complaint.
     
  17. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    Since voting is compulsory, it's an obligation rather than a right.

    OB
     
  18. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    That is because we were originally envisioned as a Republic by the Founding Fathers.
     
  19. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    I believe one will find that voting was not actually considered an innate human right by those that wrote the Constitution. The right to vote was proffered upon the US citizen by the Constitution not a natural right but a duty and privilege that could be withheld for specific reasons. There is no phraseology about voting similar to the phrases "the Congress shall make no law respecting … or prohibiting …. or abridging … " or " the right of the people to … shall not be infringed"

    According to the poll referenced in the article linked below, you and your neighborhood and family agree with the majority view of the black community nationwide.

    Poll: 70 percent support voter ID laws | TheHill
     
  20. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I haven't had a photo ID since I quit driving a few years ago. I would have to travel over 60 miles to get one.
     
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