Veganism

[dqhall]

Fasting is important. Part of the problem with the American diet today (and this has changed since the 60s) is that many Americans ingest calories nearly every waking hour. Parents these days keep their children continually on a "gravy train" with snacks always available going and coming. That is not how we used to eat. In the 60s, people at all income levels generally ate three times a day with little more than water between meals.

Eating three times a day is not how the 1st century Jews lived. They ate a "brunch" and then an evening meal. So that first meal of the day was truly breaking a 12- or more hour fast. More importantly--and very differently from the American eating pattern--they did not eat while stressed. They were at rest, relaxed, even reclining, and took considerable time to wash and pray before eating.

We, OTOH, eat while stressed, such as while at our desks. We eat in a hurry in limited intervals, on the go, also stressing. We eat for comfort from stress, rather than relieving our stress and eating while relaxed. We know now that is an extremely bad combination leading to the homones insulin and cortisol spiking simultaneously with food intake...leading directly to fat storage.

This is not the way Europeans generally eat even today. Americans would get fat because of the way we eat, even if we ate the same foods as Europeans (although the food quality of the major part of the Standard American Diet is inferior to the quality of most European diets).

Low blood pressure is important. Americans have a tendency to suffer higher blood pressure as they age and get arteriosclerosis. Only a few have been able to reverse heart disease.

 

[RDKirk]

Low blood pressure is important. Americans have a tendency to suffer higher blood pressure as they age and get arteriosclerosis. Only a few have been able to reverse heart disease.

In the last fifty years "...Americans have a tendency to suffer higher blood pressure as they age and get arteriosclerosis."

In decades prior, there wasn't such a tendency. This is the problem with "generational amnesia," in which later generations can't remember "a time before what is common now was common." I remember when young people were slim, obesity only caught up to the old, and they still died spry and quick-witted. We didn't use to have all these porky toddlers rolling around. "Thicc" didn't used to be a thing, not even for black women. Do some searching of Google images from the 70s and earlier. Check out pictures of street protests, rock festivals, any and all kinds of gatherings of ordinary people in the 60s and 70s.

That wasn't long ago--the change clearly happened in through the 70s into the 80s. You can look at the statistics of obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, arteriosclerosis. It wasn't always like this.

And that fact that it's so clearly a national phenomenon (which is shared by some nations, not by others) also show that it's something we're doing, not something we are.

 

[Isabelle13]

Genesis 1:29 tells us God originally gave humans every seed bearing plant for food. Doesn’t this mean his original plan was for us to be vegan? I recently came to Christ. So far I’ve been convicted to give up cigarettes, weed, and sexual immorality. I’ve just finished reading the New Testament for the first time and the only confusing thing for me about Jesus is his endorsement of fish and other animals as food. Cats and dogs are tortured and eaten in China much like pigs, cows, and other animals are here in North America. Do you think God would support factory farming as it is done today when so many plant-based alternatives exist and have been proven nutritionally adequate, not to mention the detriment it is doing to our environment and human health?

I agree with much of what you are writing.
I am not vegan though but vegetarian.

I have been told by spirit to avoid meat.

Sometimes people have no choice.
But most of us have.

As for factory farming.
To torture and kill an innocent animal is morally very wrong. To do it for such a self-obsessed reason as taste is not Christianity to me. I stop there.

I think people need to be very careful here. Please think about it.

 

[Eftsoon]

I agree with much of what you are writing.
I am not vegan though but vegetarian.

I have been told by spirit to avoid meat.

Sometimes people have no choice.
But most of us have.

As for factory farming.
To torture and kill an innocent animal is morally very wrong. To do it for such a self-obsessed reason as taste is not Christianity to me. I stop there.

I think people need to be very careful here. Please think about it.

I'm vegan! I would say however that it goes deeper than taste for many people. Humanity needs to start weaning itself off meat though. It's time.We have made huge strides in dietary science. We no longer need to slaughter to eat.

 

[Lost4words]

I would go vegan if only i could find a vegan marrow bone!

 

[dqhall]

I agree with much of what you are writing.
I am not vegan though but vegetarian.

I have been told by spirit to avoid meat.

Sometimes people have no choice.
But most of us have.

As for factory farming.
To torture and kill an innocent animal is morally very wrong. To do it for such a self-obsessed reason as taste is not Christianity to me. I stop there.

I think people need to be very careful here. Please think about it.

Some recommend B-12 for vegans.

 

[Lost4words]

Some recommend B-12 for vegans.

Yea, B12 is a must as u cant get enough from a vegan diet...

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I'm vegan! I would say however that it goes deeper than taste for many people. Humanity needs to start weaning itself off meat though. It's time.We have made huge strides in dietary science. We no longer need to slaughter to eat.

Without the availability of meat and dairy products, you would cause a famine.

You want to see an unhealthy lifestyle ? Try starvation.

 

[Isabelle13]

I am afraid to go vegan right now. Is there a risk that if to many do that they kill the cows? Stupid question perhaps. So i support them by eating organic cheese.

 

[Eftsoon]

Without the availability of meat and dairy products, you would cause a famine.

You want to see an unhealthy lifestyle ? Try starvation.

There are vast tracts of suitable land (in the order of 60-80 percent of agircultural land is used for grazing livestock). With the political and scientific will, we could quite easily feed everyone a plant-based diet.

 

[Eftsoon]

I am afraid to go vegan right now. Is there a risk that if to many do that they kill the cows? Stupid question perhaps. So i support them by eating organic cheese.

Don't worry about that. Demand will decrease slowly and farms will cut back on breeding to accommodate the lower demand. On balance there would be less suffering.
It's a fair question.

 

[RDKirk]

There are vast tracts of suitable land (in the order of 60-80 percent of agircultural land is used for grazing livestock). With the political and scientific will, we could quite easily feed everyone a plant-based diet.

Generally speaking, that land is not suitable for agriculture without a great deal of irrigation and other effort that itself imposes significant environmental cost. Plus, a plant-based diet depends heavily on transportation, refrigeration, and other industrial technologies--and those, too, impose an environmental cost. So, no, unless you're expecting Star Trek technology, it won't be "quite easily."

 

[Eftsoon]

Generally speaking, that land is not suitable for agriculture without a great deal of irrigation and other effort that itself imposes significant environmental cost. Plus, a plant-based diet depends heavily on transportation, refrigeration, and other industrial technologies--and those, too, impose an environmental cost. So, no, unless you're expecting Star Trek technology, it won't be "quite easily.

The environmental cost would be offset

"Plants are actively defending against the dangers of carbon pollution by not only sequestering carbon on land but also by wetting the atmosphere through transpiration of ground water and evaporation of precipitation intercepted by their bodies,"

Bear in mind tht 14.5% of emissions come from livestock. Global veganism would reduce carbon emissions by... 70% by 2050.

Plant based diets certainly don't depend on these technologies more than meat-based diets.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

There are vast tracts of suitable land (in the order of 60-80 percent of agircultural land is used for grazing livestock). With the political and scientific will, we could quite easily feed everyone a plant-based diet.

Actually, 2/3rds of the planet is not suitable for growing vegetables and other edible plants. See the linked article;

2/3 of our Earth’s dry land is unsuitable for farming. It is primarily the open range, desert and mountainous areas that provide food to grazing animals and that land is currently being put to good use. Myths of Vegetarianism - The Weston A. Price Foundation

If you live in a climate with a short growing season, one blite can wipe out your means
of growing edible food. You'll have no choice but hunt and grow animals that can be harvested.

Those are facts of life and the idea that there is enough room on the planet for all people
to become vegans or vegetarians, is fallacy.

 

[Eftsoon]

Actually, 2/3rds of the planet is not suitable for growing vegetables and other edible plants. See the linked article;



If you live in a climate with a short growing season, one blite can wipe out your means
of growing edible food. You'll have no choice but hunt and grow animals that can be harvested.

Those are facts of life and the idea that there is enough room on the planet for all people
to become vegans or vegetarians, is fallacy.

Converting grazing land to arable land and using hydroponics/vertical farming (if necessary) would be enough to feed the west. The developing world willl catch up eventually and will then be able to employ the same techniques.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Converting grazing land to arable land and using hydroponics/vertical farming (if necessary) would be enough to feed the west. The developing world willl catch up eventually and will then be able to employ the same techniques.

Grazing land is only good for growing grass, not vegetables. Then of course the other land is mountains, deserts or ice packs which can't grow anything.

 

[renniks]

Grazing land is only good for growing grass, not vegetables. Then of course the other land is mountains, deserts or ice packs which can't grow anything.

Exactly. It isn't plausible and besides a vegan diet isn't healthy for many people.
Actual vegan societies are pretty much nonexistent for good reasons.
BTW the blame for heart disease and diabetes etc is often put on meat, but if you do a little research you will find that many primitive societies were very healthy eating lots of meat and fat, but once sugar and alcohol became readily available that all changed.

 

[Eftsoon]

Grazing land is only good for growing grass, not vegetables. Then of course the other land is mountains, deserts or ice packs which can't grow anything.

It needs a little industrial processing, but there's no reason why grazing or pasture land can't be used for crops. There are vas acres of it to spare. Vertical farming is about to take off, and that would also be extremely economical. Add to that the fact that the animals consume truckfuls of grain.

There's even the possiibility of using seaweeds for food, which opens up the oceans.

Even if none of that were true however, it still doesn't change the fact that it makes sense to start reducing meat consumption and looking toward a time when we don't have to slaughter animals for food. It's inevitable. Morally, we're not going to be able to sustain it for another century.

 

[Eftsoon]

Exactly. It isn't plausible and besides a vegan diet isn't healthy for many people.
Actual vegan societies are pretty much nonexistent for good reasons.
BTW the blame for heart disease and diabetes etc is often put on meat, but if you do a little research you will find that many primitive societies were very healthy eating lots of meat and fat, but once sugar and alcohol became readily available that all changed.

There are some people who wouldn't thrive on veganism at the moment. This number will continue to dwindle

 

[renniks]

There are some people who wouldn't thrive on veganism at the moment. This number will continue to dwindle

Why would it? Actually 90 some percent of vegans in the US go back to meat within a year.
Obviously they aren't thriving on a non meat diet.