Veganism

[SamanthaLynn]

Genesis 1:29 tells us God originally gave humans every seed bearing plant for food. Doesn’t this mean his original plan was for us to be vegan? I recently came to Christ. So far I’ve been convicted to give up cigarettes, weed, and sexual immorality. I’ve just finished reading the New Testament for the first time and the only confusing thing for me about Jesus is his endorsement of fish and other animals as food. Cats and dogs are tortured and eaten in China much like pigs, cows, and other animals are here in North America. Do you think God would support factory farming as it is done today when so many plant-based alternatives exist and have been proven nutritionally adequate, not to mention the detriment it is doing to our environment and human health?

 

[tampasteve]

We live in a fallen world, it would seem the original intention was for vegetarianism or veganism. However, it is also clear that God approves eating animals. Vast portions of scripture outline the animals and process allowed for the Hebrews/Israelites. The NT is clear that Jesus approved of eating at least fish and lamb/sheep.

That said, I think it is noble to aspire to being vegan, but one does not have to support factory farming to also be a non-vegetarian. There are many people that are in the middle, people that eat animals raised in environments that are not factory farms and slaughter in a more humane method. There are people that only eat what they hunt or catch. I think these are also noble positions to take. I don't think that we should separate ourselves entirely from the cycle if we are going to eat meat.

 

[SamanthaLynn]

Thank you. I’ve been vegan for the last 8 years, hence why I am struggling with this.

The word humane means “having or showing compassion or benevolence”

So my next question would be - how do we compassionately or benevolently slaughter an animal that does not want to die? And no animal wants to be turned into our food. They seek pleasure and fear pain just as we do. Anyone with a pet knows this. I do realize the Bible tells us that it’s ok - which is why I am struggling with this.

 

[HTacianas]

Genesis 1:29 tells us God originally gave humans every seed bearing plant for food. Doesn’t this mean his original plan was for us to be vegan? I recently came to Christ. So far I’ve been convicted to give up cigarettes, weed, and sexual immorality. I’ve just finished reading the New Testament for the first time and the only confusing thing for me about Jesus is his endorsement of fish and other animals as food. Cats and dogs are tortured and eaten in China much like pigs, cows, and other animals are here in North America. Do you think God would support factory farming as it is done today when so many plant-based alternatives exist and have been proven nutritionally adequate, not to mention the detriment it is doing to our environment and human health?

If you read the theories of the different covenants God has had with mankind you'll see that in the beginning mankind was meant to be vegetarian. But the covenant with Noah allowed mankind to eat all animals also. The covenant with the Jews specified only certain animals as food. That's the reason gentiles have never been prohibited from eating "unclean" animals.

But anyways, if you want to be a vegan or a vegetarian for personal reasons that's fine. However, there is no requirement to be a vegetarian within Christianity. Early in Christian history there were some gnostic groups that did not allow their members to eat meat, hence St. Paul's saying of them to Timothy:

1Ti 4:3 ...commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving;

 

[Phronema]

I'm glad to hear that your spiritual journey is going well so far as it seems you're already changing into His likeness by giving up your vices. That's outstanding as those things, and sin itself cause us real spiritual harm; whether people want to see it, or admit it. In addition our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19), and so we should take care of them.

That passage in Genesis tells us that we have dominion over every living thing on the earth; so eating animals for sustenance isn't so out of touch though all things should be done in moderation.

On the other hand ancient Christians such as the Apostles fasted from meat, eggs, fish, olive oil, alcohol, and dairy for around 180 days out of the year. It's in emulation of Christ who did the same thing during times of great spiritual need. We see this in Acts 13:3. Fasting allows us to hone our spiritual discipline, and aid us to be able to resist temptations when they inevitably come. Today we have Great Lent, the Nativity Fast, the Apostles Fast, the Dormition Fast, and of course every Wednesday, and Friday of the year in remembrance of Christ's betrayal (Wednesday), and crucifixion (Friday). Of course fasting without increased prayer during fasting periods isn't as useful.

In short, meat is okay for Christians, but it should be eaten in moderation. In addition if one observes the fasts throughout the year we're not eligible to eat meat for 180 days or so.

 

[Phronema]

Thank you. I’ve been vegan for the last 8 years, hence why I am struggling with this.

The word humane means “having or showing compassion or benevolence”

So my next question would be - how do we compassionately or benevolently slaughter an animal that does not want to die? And no animal wants to be turned into our food. They seek pleasure and fear pain just as we do. Anyone with a pet knows this. I do realize the Bible tells us that it’s ok - which is why I am struggling with this.

It is commanded, or allowed by God in (Genesis 9:3). You're certainly not incorrect for wanting to remain vegan.

As mentioned by Tampasteve we live in a fallen world due to Adam, and Eve having eaten of the Tree of Knowledge. Unfortunately because of the fall animals will die; same as our own death. Of course we're to be good stewards of God's creation, and so we're meant to kill them sparingly, and in such a way as to not cause them undue torment, or harm.

The fall is the cause for much despair, but that's why we're so thankful for Christ's crucifixion, and resurrection. That which was destroyed through disobedience to God due to pride, and the breaking of the first fast by eating of the Tree of Knowledge was so beautifully brought back into communion with God by Christ through humility, and the Tree of Life; which is the life-giving Cross.

 

[dqhall]

Genesis 1:29 tells us God originally gave humans every seed bearing plant for food. Doesn’t this mean his original plan was for us to be vegan? I recently came to Christ. So far I’ve been convicted to give up cigarettes, weed, and sexual immorality. I’ve just finished reading the New Testament for the first time and the only confusing thing for me about Jesus is his endorsement of fish and other animals as food. Cats and dogs are tortured and eaten in China much like pigs, cows, and other animals are here in North America. Do you think God would support factory farming as it is done today when so many plant-based alternatives exist and have been proven nutritionally adequate, not to mention the detriment it is doing to our environment and human health?

I switched to a low salt vegan diet. I lost weight and my health improved. I had to take B-12, zinc and iodine. Since then I added two 3 oz servings of fish per week, more or less. I rarely eat meat in a restaurant. I accidentally ordered a plate that contained meat at an Argentine-American restaurant where I was meeting family. I ate the meat after regretting the mistake.

Red meat is a carcinogen. Eating meat that is high in fat and cholesterol puts a person at risk of cardiovascular disease.

I read that salt deficiency can cause damage. I started eating salted microwave popcorn. It increased my pulse rate. I did the no added salt routine again and lowered my pulse rate. Eating beans may lower a person’s heart rate.

In the Book of Daniel the Jews with Daniel ate pulses (beans, lentils peas) instead of fancy cuisine. They contain protein.

 

[SamanthaLynn]

I switched to a low salt vegan diet. I lost weight and my health improved. I had to take B-12, zinc and iodine. Since then I added two 3 oz servings of fish per week, more or less. I rarely eat meat in a restaurant. I accidentally ordered a plate that contained meat at an Argentine-American restaurant where I was meeting family. I ate the meat after regretting the mistake.

Red meat is a carcinogen. Eating meat that is high in fat and cholesterol puts a person at risk of cardiovascular disease.

I read that salt deficiency can cause damage. I started eating salted microwave popcorn. It increased my pulse rate. I did the no added salt routine again and lowered my pulse rate. Eating beans may lower a person’s heart rate.

In the Book of Daniel the Jews with Daniel ate pulses (beans, lentils peas) instead of fancy cuisine. They contain protein.

So maybe because of the fall of man God permits meat-eating, even though we now know that the high levels of cholesterol can lead to heart disease and earlier death and that processed meat is labelled in the same group of carcinogen as tobacco and asbestos with red meat being the next group down, as a probable carcinogen. I do take b12 and don’t have any problems getting salt because I like salted cashews, almonds, and other nuts and seeds.
So God permits us to cause our deaths to come sooner through eating meat because we have fallen and these bodies are going to die eventually because of sin. That does make some sense now.

It’s just when I think of the verses that say our bodies are temples of Christ and that’s why we shouldn’t smoke and damage them. It is confusing how some christians can eat meat for three meals a day because it’s damaging them just as much as smoking.

 

[Phronema]

It’s just when I think of the verses that say our bodies are temples of Christ and that’s why we shouldn’t smoke and damage them. It is confusing how some christians can eat meat for three meals a day because it’s damaging them just as much as smoking.

We've all sinned and fall short of the Glory of God (Romans 3:23) aside from Christ; who was perfect. Our sins of course aren't good, but we shouldn't be so concerned for the shortcomings of others, but instead with our own shortcomings (Matthew 7:1-6).

Ultimately our relationships with one another are salvific in, and of themselves. So instead of judging our brother, or sister for their shortcomings we're to become a vessel of grace through prayer, and living a sacramental life, and to help them through loving kindness. Christ Himself tells us this in (Matthew 22:39).

 

[SamanthaLynn]

We've all sinned and fall short of the Glory of God (Romans 3:23) aside from Christ; who was perfect. Our sins of course aren't good, but we shouldn't be so concerned for the shortcomings of others, but instead with our own shortcomings (Matthew 7:1-6).

Ultimately our relationships with one another are salvific in, and of themselves. So instead of judging our brother, or sister for their shortcomings we're to become a vessel of grace through prayer, and living a sacramental life, and to help them through loving kindness. Christ Himself tells us this in (Matthew 22:39).

True. I used to be an animal rights activist before I became Christian. These do not mesh and Of course I choose God over animals. Creator over his creation.

I wonder though if there is a nonjudgmental, Christian way to educate people on the health and environmental impacts of meat eating (at the rate it is commonly done now). Its harmful to our bodies - and it has been proven so - doesn’t this give me an obligation to warn other christians such as christians who warn about smoking? Would it be sinful of me still if I found a loving and respectful way to do so?

 

[Phronema]

True. I used to be an animal rights activist before I became Christian. These do not mesh and Of course I choose God over animals. Creator over his creation.

I wonder though if there is a nonjudgmental, Christian way to educate people on the health and environmental impacts of meat eating (at the rate it is commonly done now). Its harmful to our bodies - and it has been proven so - doesn’t this give me an obligation to warn other christians such as christians who warn about smoking? Would it be sinful of me still if I found a loving and respectful way to do so?

There's certainly nothing wrong with trying to be a good steward of God's creation, or even of warning others of the dangers. With that said I think it's important to see things in the bigger picture. Firstly, if others are living their lives in moderation, and fasting as we're told this won't be as large of an issue due to the nature of how carcinogens work. Which is that if introduced in small amounts over longer periods of time the chances of harmful effects are greatly reduced.

In addition I think it's important to understand that we are IN this world, but not OF this world as Christians (1 John 2:17) (2 Corinthians 4:18). Which is to say that all of THIS around us is important, but not as important in the greater context of where we're hoping to be once this life inevitably ends. I'm not saying that to diminish what's important to you, but please understand that in the greater context we are ultimately powerless to change the overall outcome of people eating meat, and/or dying due to the higher carcinogenic rates of red meat.

So, no it wouldn't be sinful of you as what you're doing is born of love, and kindness for your neighbor, and God's creation. In addition clearly this is something you're both passionate, and compassionate about, and it drives you; so that's good.

 

[bèlla]

Its wondrous when we allow the Lord to guide our diet and instruct us on our temple’s care. His prescriptions differ for each and usually enhance our health and lessen maladies.

I’m not vegan or dependent on traditional means to procure sustainably raised food. Or oblivious of its origin. Most of the food I consume is sourced directly. Working with farmers, mills, etc. develops an appreciation for seasonality and avoids harmful additives and practices.

This is an outgrowth of our commitment to an eco-friendly lifestyle and slow living. We extend the same to the household and our attire. There’s give and take each year. We remove a convenience and replace it with a conscionable alternative.

~bella

 

[dqhall]

So maybe because of the fall of man God permits meat-eating, even though we now know that the high levels of cholesterol can lead to heart disease and earlier death and that processed meat is labelled in the same group of carcinogen as tobacco and asbestos with red meat being the next group down, as a probable carcinogen. I do take b12 and don’t have any problems getting salt because I like salted cashews, almonds, and other nuts and seeds.
So God permits us to cause our deaths to come sooner through eating meat because we have fallen and these bodies are going to die eventually because of sin. That does make some sense now.

It’s just when I think of the verses that say our bodies are temples of Christ and that’s why we shouldn’t smoke and damage them. It is confusing how some christians can eat meat for three meals a day because it’s damaging them just as much as smoking.

I read vegan diet books by Dr. Dean Ornish, Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn and Dr. Michael Greger.

There was a Japanese doctor named Dr. Shigeaki Hinohara who lived to be 105. He ate grain, vegetables, two 4 oz. servings of meat per week and a little fish. He took the stairs instead of the elevator.

 

[apogee]

I was vegan for about 2 years, although some of my favourite meals are vegan and I would consider going vegan again at some point. It's interesting how similar it is to being a Christian, in the sense that it's annoying how ridiculously offensive some people seem to find it.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I don't think you have to eat meat as a Christian, but here are some bible verse in which meat eating is acceptable:

Genesis 9:3
Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

1 Timothy 4
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

 

[dqhall]

I don't think you have to eat meat as a Christian, but here are some bible verse in which meat eating is acceptable:

Genesis 9:3
Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

1 Timothy 4
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Proverbs 23:19 Listen, my son, and be wise,
and set your heart on the right path:
20 Do not join those who drink too much wine
or gorge themselves on meat,
21 for drunkards and gluttons become poor,
and drowsiness clothes them in rags.

 

[Chrystal-J]

Proverbs 23:19 Listen, my son, and be wise,
and set your heart on the right path:
20 Do not join those who drink too much wine
or gorge themselves on meat,
21 for drunkards and gluttons become poor,
and drowsiness clothes them in rags.

I don't think the verses I quoted were pro-gluttony. Everything in moderation.

 

[dqhall]

I don't think the verses I quoted were pro-gluttony. Everything in moderation.

I read about a vegan doctor from Loma Linda, CA named Ellsworth Wareham who lived to be 104. He was a heart surgeon who worked during his 90’s. Timothy may have been too quick to condemn vegans.

 

[Taodeching]

Nothing like a good side of bacon for breakfast, Nothing like a good Hamburger for lunch, Nothing like a good Steak for Supper

 

[seeking.IAM]

God created us in his image with 4 canine teeth like other carnivores. Enough of this nonsense that we are not supposed to eat meat. Veganism or vegetarianism may hold health benefits but I think its a real stretch to say God doesn't want us to eat meat.