Veganism

[Eftsoon]

Why would it? Actually 90 some percent of vegans in the US go back to meat within a year.
Obviously they aren't thriving on a non meat diet.

Vegan offerings are becoming more and more creative. New food technologies are opening up. Fortification is becoming more advanced. Agriculture is also advancing rapidly. We are also making great strides in dietary science.
Veganism is hard to sustain because many people lack the time and dietary awareness to make a go of it. They end up malnourished because of poor planning and implementation. That said, vegetarianism is still an option. There is a continuum.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

It needs a little industrial processing, but there's no reason why grazing or pasture land can't be used for crops. There are vas acres of it to spare. Vertical farming is about to take off, and that would also be extremely economical. Add to that the fact that the animals consume truckfuls of grain.

There's even the possiibility of using seaweeds for food, which opens up the oceans.

Even if none of that were true however, it still doesn't change the fact that it makes sense to start reducing meat consumption and looking toward a time when we don't have to slaughter animals for food. It's inevitable. Morally, we're not going to be able to sustain it for another century.

The soil isn't deep enough to produce crops, it's why it became grazing land for first buffalos and now cows.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

There are some people who wouldn't thrive on veganism at the moment. This number will continue to dwindle

Not without B12 supplements.

My cousin tried veganism. She was a letter carrier in Florida.

She got really sick and end up with B12 deficiency. Her doctor immediatley
ordered her off the vegan diet and to begin eating animal products with fat.

She recovered in time, but went against just the unnatural diet.

 

[Eftsoon]

The soil isn't deep enough to produce crops, it's why it became grazing land for first buffalos and now cows.

Add layers of soil. At any rate, it's just a fraction of the total available land. There's an incalulable amount of available space for crops of diverse kinds. There's enough for the world to go vegetarian and for some to go vegan.

 

[Eftsoon]

Not without B12 supplements.

My cousin tried veganism. She was a letter carrier in Florida.

She got really sick and end up with B12 deficiency. Her doctor immediatley
ordered her off the vegan diet and to begin eating animal products with fat.

She recovered in time, but went against just the unnatural diet.

Yep vegans have to supplement. That's not really all that relevant though. If you're a vegan because it's the 'way nature intended', you're misguided. Sure, it was God's original plan, but we've had to abandon that for a season.

The logistical issues will be worked out in time. It's just a matter of time. The issue for me isn't even about what you eat.

If I found roadkill and were sufficiently hungry, I'd eat it. I would quite contentedly eat leftover meat (with sufficient hunger). It's about what happens before. It's immaterial to me what other people eat lol. What matters is how we obtain that food.

 

[RDKirk]

Plant based diets certainly don't depend on these technologies more than meat-based diets.

Actually, they do, or at least, they can. A diet with animal-based protein can be a purely local diet without either transportation or refrigeration...as had been the case for thousands of years.

 

[RDKirk]

Add layers of soil.

Speaking from having lived in Oklahoma, which spent time as a dust bowl...LOL.

 

[RDKirk]

The soil isn't deep enough to produce crops, it's why it became grazing land for first buffalos and now cows.

Or more often, it's too arid.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Add layers of soil. At any rate, it's just a fraction of the total available land. There's an incalulable amount of available space for crops of diverse kinds. There's enough for the world to go vegetarian and for some to go vegan.

They couldn't add enough to create enough growing gardens to feed the nation, never mind the world.

Also, erosion from the wind would quickly remove it.

The fertilizer from the cows droppings are what keeps the grass growing. Before for cows, it was millions of buffalo who did the fertilizing.

 

[RDKirk]

They couldn't add enough to create enough growing gardens to feed the nation, never mind the world.

Also, erosion from the wind would quickly remove it.

The fertilizer from the cows droppings are what keeps the grass growing. Before for cows, it was millions of buffalo who did the fertilizing.

What actually is a problem--at least in the US--is the switch to grain-fed beef from grass-fed beef.

It's kind of ironic...for thousands of years, right up to a few decades ago, grain fed beef has been reserved for the elite (the "fatted calf" of the bible was a grain-fed calf). Even in my younger years, grain-fed beef was the really expensive stuff.

But because of government corn subsidies (mainly) and a few other things, the economy of the beef industry has been upended to make it cheaper to grain-feed cattle in concentrated lots than to let them graze in open fields. It has made the beef industry more like the poultry industry in the way the animals are raised...and to be sure, that poses not only ethical problems but also health problems.

But that's a First-World problem.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

What actually is a problem--at least in the US--is the switch to grain-fed beef from grass-fed beef.

It's kind of ironic...for thousands of years, right up to a few decades ago, grain fed beef has been reserved for the elite (the "fatted calf" of the bible was a grain-fed calf). Even in my younger years, grain-fed beef was the really expensive stuff.

But because of government corn subsidies (mainly) and a few other things, the economy of the beef industry has been upended to make it cheaper to grain-feed cattle in concentrated lots than to let them graze in open fields. It has made the beef industry more like the poultry industry in the way the animals are raised...and to be sure, that poses not only ethical problems but also health problems.

But that's a First-World problem.

Yeah but people new to farming have come to learn the hard way is that they can over feed cattle with grains.

I watch The Amazing Dr Pol and see the greenhorns make the mistake of
over feeding their cows with grain.

Around my area, more farmers are advertising grass fed beef as they let their
cows feed in the pastures. It's the most economic and productive way to farm as many have learned.

 

[RDKirk]

Yeah but people new to farming have come to learn the hard way is that they can over feed cattle with grains.

I watch The Amazing Dr Pol and see the greenhorns make the mistake of
over feeding their cows with grain.

Around my area, more farmers are advertising grass fed beef as they let their
cows feed in the pastures. It's the most economic and productive way to farm as many have learned.

But today it's the grass-fed beef that is priced at a premium.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

But today it's the grass-fed beef that is priced at a premium.

It's a little more expensive. However, what I have learned is that you can not
buy beef from a farm who slaughters the cows themselves. It's illegal. The farmer
must pay to have his cattle transferred to a certified slaughter house than returned
the beef where he can then sell it. It's part of the reason why it's more expensive.

Also, the large slaughter houses have the FDA officials in their pockets and they are constantly changing the regulations on slaughter houses which prohibit new start ups from existing. Stupid things like having a private bathroom for just the inspector from the government. They'll change the regulation mandating that the door to such restroom, must be from the outside only. They keep that reg for a year than change it to the door must be inside. The large slaughter houses can afford making the change, the little guys can not. This is just one regulation that the FDA officials keep manipulating, there are others.

FYI, I belong to a farm group on FB and communicate with local farmers all the time.

 

[Torah Keeper]

I was a vegan a few years. I also tried vegetarian. Today I eat kosher. I think vegan was the original diet. But starvation and nutrient deficiency is a possibility especially in cold climates.

Meat eating is not a sin. But I recommend avoiding unclean creatures.

 

[Isabelle13]

I was a vegan a few years. I also tried vegetarian. Today I eat kosher. I think vegan was the original diet. But starvation and nutrient deficiency is a possibility especially in cold climates.

Meat eating is not a sin. But I recommend avoiding unclean creatures.

Meat eating has negative consequences for us spiritually. At least today with all the torture and trauma. If we cause suffering we have to go through it ourselves.

The forces of darkness understand this. They do what they can to make it harder for people to go back to heaven.

 

[Eftsoon]

Meat eating has negative consequences for us spiritually. At least today with all the torture and trauma. If we cause suffering we have to go through it ourselves.

The forces of darkness understand this. They do what they can to make it harder for people to go back to heaven.

It's animal cruelty that's a sin. Consider: Some people only eat roadkill. No animals are harmed. Lab grown meat will also be a possibility. These things aren't inherently cruel.

The meat industry is barbaric as a whole though, so meat eating necessarily involves a high level of animal cruelty. Eating abused factory farmed animals is morally wrong. Some people's financial circumstances make it difficult to avoid however. Many can't really pick and choose. In such cases there are still ways to make efforts to buy humanely produced animal products where possible. There are some cost effective ways to do so.

 

[Eftsoon]

They couldn't add enough to create enough growing gardens to feed the nation, never mind the world.

Also, erosion from the wind would quickly remove it.

The fertilizer from the cows droppings are what keeps the grass growing. Before for cows, it was millions of buffalo who did the fertilizing.

This is all speculative, and it doesn't really matter. It's uncontroversial really. If humanity devoted enough space and resources, we could do it. Even if we don't have the infrastructure now, obviously we will have the scientific and logistical capability to do it in the future. Whether that means airborne gardens, sea farms, vertical farms,advanced terraforming or greenhouses on the moon isn't really important.

Currently we have enough in place for millions to go vegan and millions more to go vegetarian. This would make me very happy!

 

[RDKirk]

This is all speculative, and it doesn't really matter. It's uncontroversial really. If humanity devoted enough space and resources, we could do it. Even if we don't have the infrastructure now, obviously we will have the scientific and logistical capability to do it in the future. Whether that means airborne gardens, sea farms, vertical farms,advanced terraforming or greenhouses on the moon isn't really important.

Currently we have enough in place for millions to go vegan and millions more to go vegetarian. This would make me very happy!

And if the Body of Christ devoted the resources we already have in our hands, no Christian would be homeless or hungry...and we can't even get Christians to do that much.

As Christians, let's concentrate on what Jesus told us specifically to do and avoid side quests.

 

[Eftsoon]

And if the Body of Christ devoted the resources we already have in our hands, no Christian would be homeless or hungry...and we can't even get Christians to do that much.

As Christians, let's concentrate on what Jesus told us specifically to do and avoid side quests.

I would put this under the category of loving our neighbour. There is a human- resemblance that means that animals have a proto-selfhood. They are capable of experiencing suffering. Animal cruelty is definitely important for Christians.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

This is all speculative, and it doesn't really matter. It's uncontroversial really. If humanity devoted enough space and resources, we could do it. Even if we don't have the infrastructure now, obviously we will have the scientific and logistical capability to do it in the future. Whether that means airborne gardens, sea farms, vertical farms,advanced terraforming or greenhouses on the moon isn't really important.

Currently we have enough in place for millions to go vegan and millions more to go vegetarian. This would make me very happy!

Actually it's scientific as scientists have shown how 2/3rds of the earth would not support
agriculture.

You say "if" but "if" doesn't exist, it's an illusion.

If vegetarians and vegans had their way, we would end up in a world-wide famine, especially here in the US which produces a large quantity of the world's food supply.