Veganism

[bmjackson]

Forgotten. But I am sure that they were paying locals to collect the mangoes.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

There is a group of Seventh Day Adventists in Loma Linda, CA who have a higher number of centenarians living amongst them. The men on primarily plant based diets live about ten years longer than men elsewhere. They do not smoke, drink alcohol, or caffeine. They emphasize a plant based diet. There are more vegans and vegetarians amongst them than the general population.

Tom Brady is one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. He ate a diet that is 80% plant based. He also ate organic grass fed beef and what else, I do not know..

What Does Tom Brady Eat? How to Fuel Your Body for Performance | TB12 Sports

BTW, most people could not follow TB12's diet and exercise routine.

It's why there is a difference between pro-athletes and everyone else.

 

[dqhall]

What Does Tom Brady Eat? How to Fuel Your Body for Performance | TB12

[URL='https://tb12sports.com/blog/what-does-tom-brady-eat?gclid=CjwKCAjwoZWHBhBgEiwAiMN66adZ74xncOeZknetuL-AOYiOEQxSpX64SBpbhgvkuH74CutPgmJWFxoCeVMQAvD_BwE']What Does Tom Brady Eat? How to Fuel Your Body for Performance | TB12 Sports

BTW, most people could not follow TB12's diet and exercise routine.

It's why there is a difference between pro-athletes and everyone else.

Sports[/URL]

BTW, most people could not follow TB12's diet and exercise routine.

It's why there is a difference between pro-athletes and everyone else.

People died for lack of trying.

 

[RDKirk]

What Does Tom Brady Eat? How to Fuel Your Body for Performance | TB12 Sports

BTW, most people could not follow TB12's diet and exercise routine.

It's why there is a difference between pro-athletes and everyone else.

There is a lot of wonkiness in the "percentages" that article throws around.

Percentages of what, exactly? Percentages of food by weight (grams or ounces)? Percentages of calories?

If he's ingesting, say, 3,000 calories a day, does that mean he's ingesting 600 calories of meat and 2,400 calories of vegetables?

Or if he's eating 1,200 grams of food a day, does that mean he's eating 300 grams of meat and 900 grams of vegetables?

The article actually says,

"Around noon, Tom assembles his lunch according to his core principle of “mostly plants.” About 20 percent of his plate is a healthy protein (like a piece of fish), "and the rest is vegetables — “lots of vegetables,” he notes — whole grains, and dark leafy greens.

Well, that's a big, vague cloud. Covering 80% of a plate with vegetables--which are both calorie-light and weight-light in volume--means that in terms of either grams or calories, he might be consuming a lot more than 80% of food in animal protein.

 

[dqhall]

There is a lot of wonkiness in the "percentages" that article throws around.

Percentages of what, exactly? Percentages of food by weight (grams or ounces)? Percentages of calories?

If he's ingesting, say, 3,000 calories a day, does that mean he's ingesting 600 calories of meat and 2,400 calories of vegetables?

Or if he's eating 1,200 grams of food a day, does that mean he's eating 300 grams of meat and 900 grams of vegetables?

The article actually says,



Well, that's a big, vague cloud. Covering 80% of a plate with vegetables--which are both calorie-light and weight-light in volume--means that in terms of either grams or calories, he might be consuming a lot more than 80% of food in animal protein.

It is probably percent of calories. Some green leafy vegetables rival the protein per calorie value of meat.

“Broccoli contains more protein per calorie than steak and, per calorie, spinach is about equal to chicken and fish. Of course, you’ll need to eat a lot more broccoli and spinach to get the same amount of calories that you do from the meat.”
Yes, Plants Have Protein | Whole Foods Market

Vegans may get protein from lentils, beans and peas along with whole grains and vegetables. It is difficult to eat a pound of kale.

 

[RDKirk]

It is probably percent of calories.

No, we can't say "probably percent of calories" when the article explicitly says they mean a portion of the area of the plate.

Some green leafy vegetables rival the protein per calorie value of meat.

“Broccoli contains more protein per calorie than steak and, per calorie, spinach is about equal to chicken and fish. Of course, you’ll need to eat a lot more broccoli and spinach to get the same amount of calories that you do from the meat.”
Yes, Plants Have Protein | Whole Foods Market

Vegans may get protein from lentils, beans and peas along with whole grains and vegetables. It is difficult to eat a pound of kale.

You need a better source of information.

91 grams (1 cup) of broccoli
Protein: 2.5 grams.
Carbs: 6 grams.
Sugar: 1.5 grams.
Fiber: 2.4 grams.
Fat: 0.4 grams.

100 grams of beef
Protein: 26.1 grams
Carbs: 0 grams
Sugar: 0 grams
Fiber: 0 grams
Fat: 11.8 grams

100 grams of spinach
Protein: 2.9 grams
Carbs: 3.6 grams
Sugar: 0.4 grams
Fiber: 2.2 grams
Fat: 0.4 grams

85 grams of chicken breast
Protein: 26g
Carbohydrates: 0g
Sugars: 0g
Fiber: 0g
Fat: 2.7g

Healthline: Medical information and health advice you can trust.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

People died for lack of trying.

What people died for not trying to use Brady's diet and exorcise schedule ?

 

[Sketcher]

Genesis 1:29 tells us God originally gave humans every seed bearing plant for food. Doesn’t this mean his original plan was for us to be vegan? I recently came to Christ. So far I’ve been convicted to give up cigarettes, weed, and sexual immorality. I’ve just finished reading the New Testament for the first time and the only confusing thing for me about Jesus is his endorsement of fish and other animals as food. Cats and dogs are tortured and eaten in China much like pigs, cows, and other animals are here in North America. Do you think God would support factory farming as it is done today when so many plant-based alternatives exist and have been proven nutritionally adequate, not to mention the detriment it is doing to our environment and human health?

Be aware that in Judea, what we know as factory farming didn't exist, they were kosher. Kosher practices have standards that factory farming at times will violate. And while a Christian doesn't have to keep kosher (it has standards beyond what is permissible in the New Testament for non-Jewish Christians), it is very possible to eat meat and dairy that was raised humanely. There are farmers who do their best to keep their animals happy while they are with them. If factory farming disturbs you, buying from them is an option. That's not veganism, but it's another way.

Veganism itself is an extreme philosophy that condemns the eating of meat, honey, and dairy products, and also the use of animal hides, and also the killing of animals in sacrifice. Scripture says all of these are permitted, or in the case of sacrifice, mandated. Jesus did away with the animal sacrifice by sacrificing himself, but this was because the animal sacrifices were insufficient rather than morally flawed (the book of Hebrews gets into the comparison of his sacrifice to OT sacrifices, Romans also gets into how the OT law was good but insufficient). I therefore don't see how a Christian can consistently be vegan, strictly speaking - but a Christian can be something else that is more permissive than veganism without going all the way to supporting factory farming.

 

[bèlla]

Vegans may get protein from lentils, beans and peas along with whole grains and vegetables. It is difficult to eat a pound of kale.

It isn't a lot. I went through this with a nutritionist. She wanted to increase my protein intake and I suggested legumes and vegetables. But it wasn't enough. Many supplement their diets with protein shakes or powders. I refuse to do that. I try to eat more meat and fish instead.

A pound of kale is nothing. Especially if you cook it. I posted some tuscan kale today. The bundle is a pound. It would make two salads.

~bella

 

[RDKirk]

Vegans may get protein from lentils, beans and peas along with whole grains and vegetables. It is difficult to eat a pound of kale.

It's not difficult to eat a pound of kale, but it may be difficult to eliminate it.

Don't ask me how I know.

 

[dqhall]

It isn't a lot. I went through this with a nutritionist. She wanted to increase my protein intake and I suggested legumes and vegetables. But it wasn't enough. Many supplement their diets with protein shakes or powders. I refuse to do that. I try to eat more meat and fish instead.

A pound of kale is nothing. Especially if you cook it. I posted some tuscan kale today. The bundle is a pound. It would make two salads.

~bella

Low carb diets such as the Atkins diet, keto, paleo, etc. recommended meat, fish, dairy and eggs with minimal grains, sugar, starches etc. They got plenty of fat, cholesterol and protein. They were also 32% more likely to die.
https://www.mdlinx.com/article/low-...-cause-specific-mortality-study-says/lfc-2973

 

[dqhall]

It's not difficult to eat a pound of kale, but it may be difficult to eliminate it.

Don't ask me how I know.

I lost weight on a vegan diet. Eating Romaine lettuce is filling. I have added two or three four ounce servings of seafood per week. Learning to fast as needed may be valuable. Some Biblical writers practiced fasting. Jesus and his disciples knew to eat the right portions to avoid the need to fast (Matthew 9:14).

 

[bèlla]

Low carb diets such as the Atkins diet, keto, paleo, etc. recommended meat, fish, dairy and eggs with minimal grains, sugar, starches etc. They got plenty of fat, cholesterol and protein. They were also 32% more likely to die.
https://www.mdlinx.com/article/low-...-cause-specific-mortality-study-says/lfc-2973

I don't follow American fads or the food pyramid. We eat like the French and it serves us well. Quality matters.

~bella

 

[Sketcher]

So maybe because of the fall of man God permits meat-eating, even though we now know that the high levels of cholesterol can lead to heart disease and earlier death and that processed meat is labelled in the same group of carcinogen as tobacco and asbestos with red meat being the next group down, as a probable carcinogen. I do take b12 and don’t have any problems getting salt because I like salted cashews, almonds, and other nuts and seeds.
So God permits us to cause our deaths to come sooner through eating meat because we have fallen and these bodies are going to die eventually because of sin. That does make some sense now.

It’s just when I think of the verses that say our bodies are temples of Christ and that’s why we shouldn’t smoke and damage them. It is confusing how some christians can eat meat for three meals a day because it’s damaging them just as much as smoking.

If the argument against red meat is coming from the issues with high cholesterol, then if a person's cholesterol is at healthy levels, it would make sense that eating red meat isn't wrong for that person. Quality of meat would also factor in, of course. Daily hot dogs are going to be worse for you than steak.

True. I used to be an animal rights activist before I became Christian. These do not mesh and Of course I choose God over animals. Creator over his creation.

I wonder though if there is a nonjudgmental, Christian way to educate people on the health and environmental impacts of meat eating (at the rate it is commonly done now). Its harmful to our bodies - and it has been proven so - doesn’t this give me an obligation to warn other christians such as christians who warn about smoking? Would it be sinful of me still if I found a loving and respectful way to do so?

With smoking, it's acknowledged that it is very bad for the smoker and the people around the smoker. And there's people who can't quit smoking who consequently have shame issues. Realistically, there isn't a great need to warn people about smoking anymore.

With the consumption of meat, Christians tend to first compare what the Bible says about eating meat with whatever you're comparing it to - in this case, smoking. There are important differences. God gave us meat to eat in Genesis 9:3, but there is nothing in the Bible that I've read where God gives us tobacco or marijuana to smoke. So to handle this reverently, I would suggest:

1. Define your goals and boundaries here. Are you attempting to get people to give up meat entirely, and using the high cholesterol argument as a means to that end, or are you simply wanting to help Christians lower their cholesterol? Christians will see through the former.
2. Be honest about what you're comparing it to, both factually and Biblically. There's differences between destroying your lungs and eating low-quality food. There's differences between getting high and eating low-quality food. And there's of course differences between high-quality food and low-quality food, from a health perspective only (that's a good thing - Christianity is a religion that is supposed to be accessible to everyone, and consider the food that slaves were stuck with through the ages - very often low-quality).
3. Be respectful, Romans 14 talks about having respect for Christians of different convictions (BTW, the Christian vegetarians Paul was referring to there were abstaining from meat because leftover meat from animal sacrifices at the pagan temples would often go on sale in the markets, and they didn't want to chance eating meat sacrificed to idols). Food is one of those flexible matters, as long as we're not eating food sacrificed to idols or meat that hasn't had its blood properly drained.
4. There's respect for what's best for your temple. If eating meat would be worse for you, you don't have to eat it. Some people however, need to eat animal products (Mikhaila Peterson being a famous example). If you know you need to abstain from certain foods so that you can remain healthy, then you can frame it that way.
5. Remembering the above point, I personally have found I need to make concessions sometimes for the sake of love. I almost never eat sweets, for instance. Fruit is just as good, and better for me. But if there's a party or a potluck, people will be bringing them. If someone put the effort into making a cake or a pie from scratch, I will honor those efforts and have a piece, especially if explicitly offered. If someone just brought a package of Oreos, I'll quietly skip those. If I were to eat cake or pie every day, that would bring problems to my temple. But occasionally, it's fine. It's not going to get me down a road of eating them regularly, like smoking to be sociable is very likely to do.

Thank you. I’ve been vegan for the last 8 years, hence why I am struggling with this.

The word humane means “having or showing compassion or benevolence”

So my next question would be - how do we compassionately or benevolently slaughter an animal that does not want to die? And no animal wants to be turned into our food. They seek pleasure and fear pain just as we do. Anyone with a pet knows this. I do realize the Bible tells us that it’s ok - which is why I am struggling with this.

Make it very, very quick. Jews claim that their method of animal slaughtering (shehitah) is painless for the animal. There are non-kosher methods of slaughter that can be even quicker than that.

 

[dqhall]

I don't follow American fads or the food pyramid. We eat like the French and it serves us well. Quality matters.

~bella

I have never tried escargot, but ate French bread before.

 

[RDKirk]

Low carb diets such as the Atkins diet, keto, paleo, etc. recommended meat, fish, dairy and eggs with minimal grains, sugar, starches etc. They got plenty of fat, cholesterol and protein. They were also 32% more likely to die.
https://www.mdlinx.com/article/low-...-cause-specific-mortality-study-says/lfc-2973

The consistent problem with these epidemiological studies is that their "low carb" or "omnivorous" samples are merely uncontrolled eaters on the "Standard American Diet" of highly processed fast foods. OTOH, vegans and vegetarians are invariably people eating a clean diets of whole foods. It's a false comparison every time.

They need to compare omnivores eating a clean diet with vegans and vegetarians eating clean diets, such as omnivorous elite athletes compared with vegan elite athletes.

 

[bèlla]

I have never tried escargot, but ate French bread before.

They're heavenly! Usually served in wine with shallots, garlic and parsley with fresh bread to sop up the juices.

~bella

 

[RDKirk]

I lost weight on a vegan diet. Eating Romaine lettuce is filling. I have added two or three four ounce servings of seafood per week. Learning to fast as needed may be valuable. Some Biblical writers practiced fasting. Jesus and his disciples knew to eat the right portions to avoid the need to fast (Matthew 9:14).

Fasting is important. Part of the problem with the American diet today (and this has changed since the 60s) is that many Americans ingest calories nearly every waking hour. Parents these days keep their children continually on a "gravy train" with snacks always available going and coming. That is not how we used to eat. In the 60s, people at all income levels generally ate three times a day with little more than water between meals.

Eating three times a day is not how the 1st century Jews lived. They ate a "brunch" and then an evening meal. So that first meal of the day was truly breaking a 12- or more hour fast. More importantly--and very differently from the American eating pattern--they did not eat while stressed. They were at rest, relaxed, even reclining, and took considerable time to wash and pray before eating.

We, OTOH, eat while stressed, such as while at our desks. We eat in a hurry in limited intervals, on the go, also stressing. We eat for comfort from stress, rather than relieving our stress and eating while relaxed. We know now that is an extremely bad combination leading to the homones insulin and cortisol spiking simultaneously with food intake...leading directly to fat storage.

This is not the way Europeans generally eat even today. Americans would get fat because of the way we eat, even if we ate the same foods as Europeans (although the food quality of the major part of the Standard American Diet is inferior to the quality of most European diets).

 

[RDKirk]

If the argument against red meat is coming from the issues with high cholesterol, then if a person's cholesterol is at healthy levels, it would make sense that eating red meat isn't wrong for that person. Quality of meat would also factor in, of course. Daily hot dogs are going to be worse for you than steak.


With smoking, it's acknowledged that it is very bad for the smoker and the people around the smoker. And there's people who can't quit smoking who consequently have shame issues. Realistically, there isn't a great need to warn people about smoking anymore.

With the consumption of meat, Christians tend to first compare what the Bible says about eating meat with whatever you're comparing it to - in this case, smoking. There are important differences. God gave us meat to eat in Genesis 9:3, but there is nothing in the Bible that I've read where God gives us tobacco or marijuana to smoke. So to handle this reverently, I would suggest:

1. Define your goals and boundaries here. Are you attempting to get people to give up meat entirely, and using the high cholesterol argument as a means to that end, or are you simply wanting to help Christians lower their cholesterol? Christians will see through the former.
2. Be honest about what you're comparing it to, both factually and Biblically. There's differences between destroying your lungs and eating low-quality food. There's differences between getting high and eating low-quality food. And there's of course differences between high-quality food and low-quality food, from a health perspective only (that's a good thing - Christianity is a religion that is supposed to be accessible to everyone, and consider the food that slaves were stuck with through the ages - very often low-quality).
3. Be respectful, Romans 14 talks about having respect for Christians of different convictions (BTW, the Christian vegetarians Paul was referring to there were abstaining from meat because leftover meat from animal sacrifices at the pagan temples would often go on sale in the markets, and they didn't want to chance eating meat sacrificed to idols). Food is one of those flexible matters, as long as we're not eating food sacrificed to idols or meat that hasn't had its blood properly drained.
4. There's respect for what's best for your temple. If eating meat would be worse for you, you don't have to eat it. Some people however, need to eat animal products (Mikhaila Peterson being a famous example). If you know you need to abstain from certain foods so that you can remain healthy, then you can frame it that way.
5. Remembering the above point, I personally have found I need to make concessions sometimes for the sake of love. I almost never eat sweets, for instance. Fruit is just as good, and better for me. But if there's a party or a potluck, people will be bringing them. If someone put the effort into making a cake or a pie from scratch, I will honor those efforts and have a piece, especially if explicitly offered. If someone just brought a package of Oreos, I'll quietly skip those. If I were to eat cake or pie every day, that would bring problems to my temple. But occasionally, it's fine. It's not going to get me down a road of eating them regularly, like smoking to be sociable is very likely to do.

Make it very, very quick. Jews claim that their method of animal slaughtering (shehitah) is painless for the animal. There are non-kosher methods of slaughter that can be even quicker than that.

Excellent post. I want to go back to one part:

1. Be respectful, Romans 14 talks about having respect for Christians of different convictions (BTW, the Christian vegetarians Paul was referring to there were abstaining from meat because leftover meat from animal sacrifices at the pagan temples would often go on sale in the markets, and they didn't want to chance eating meat sacrificed to idols). Food is one of those flexible matters, as long as we're not eating food sacrificed to idols or meat that hasn't had its blood properly drained.

If we look again at the Acts 15 letter to the Gentiles:

...abstain from food offered to idols, from blood, from eating anything that has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.

Those are all acts specific to temple idol worship practices. Strangling the animal and eating it with the blood still in its vessels was a known practice of idol worship...but that was actually not the way animals were butchered for regular eating. So Gentiles were faced at the market with both meat that had been properly slaughtered and rendered and meat that had been strangled with the blood in its vessels. That might be hard to discern after cooking, and Paul tells us it's not important anyway because nothing spiritual has actually occurred within the meat.

But it was something clearly known if one were personally participating in the ceremony. The real prohibition here in and in Paul's instruction to the Corinthians is to stay away from the ceremony. The ceremony does not make spiritual changes to the meat, but it does make changes to the spirit. So it's better to stay away from anything having to do with the ceremony for the sake of conscience.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I recently had heart surgery to replace a bicuspid aortic valve after a blood infection cause problems. They did a CAT scan first and found I had no clogged arteries. Despite eating red meat and high-fat food, along with good and once in a while bad carbs, I attribute this to drinking red wine, which my doctor said is "medicinal."

The best thing is to have a balanced diet and eat in moderation. Stay away from sugar and high-carbs as much as possible, but don't go crazy.

As St Teresa of Avila told her sisters, "worrying about your health won't add one day to your life. In fact it may even cause harm." This was back in 1500 BC.