Vaccines Save Lives

[Hammster]

Fair question. The first 3 phases of drug development are entirely mandatory. No drug will be approved for any indication in any western world without an appropriate phase III trial. After a drug comes to market, the next step, unsurprisingly, is a phase IV trial looking for wider effects of a drug in real world use.

What phase IVs get done and by whom is very variable. Some are mandated in some situations, others are voluntary. One "limitation" of a phase IV is that you have to decide before hand what it is you are looking for so you can build the appropriate statistical plan. In other words, you might set up a phase IV trial to see if your drug causes heart attacks, but that study will never find out if your drug causes kidney failure.

The other question is what incidence rate is low enough that you consider it reasonable to let pharma off? Take the Az blood clot, as an example. That occurs in ~ 1 in 250 000 people. So to have actually have found it, Az would have had to run a trial on 1 million people, something that is logistically and fiscally impossible.

ETA to your post above, no-one has done any studies to see if "vaccines cause cancer in 5 years" for any vaccine, it a study that is physically impossible to perform in part because cancer is 2 million diseases, not one.

Has this vaccine gone through those trials?

And to your ETA, my point wasn’t to say that it could possibly cause cancer.

 

[Tanj]

Has this vaccine gone through those trials?

Which vaccine?

The COVID vaccines arrived faster than anyone expected. Here's what happens next
National Cohort Study of Effectiveness and Safety of SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 Vaccines (ENFORCE) - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov
https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/covid-19-global-vaccine-trials-tracker/

 

[Lost4words]

Its going through trial now. On those that have elected to have it!

 

[Hammster]

Which vaccine?

The COVID vaccines arrived faster than anyone expected. Here's what happens next
National Cohort Study of Effectiveness and Safety of SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 Vaccines (ENFORCE) - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov
https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/covid-19-global-vaccine-trials-tracker/

 

[rturner76]

media/education/science/etc

Who would we want to use things like education and science to make decisions about our medical care? That makes no sense!

 

[Strathos]

I would say that no vaccine has done that because they go through testing.

So has this one. The steps were just done in parallel rather than sequentially. Same amount of work, shorter time. Also, what vaccine was ever tested for 20 years before ever being used like some people are suggesting?

 

[Hammster]

So has this one. The steps were just done in parallel rather than sequentially. Same amount of work, shorter time. Also, what vaccine was ever tested for 20 years before ever being used like some people are suggesting?

Where did you come up with 20 years? I never said anything about that.

 

[Strathos]

Where did you come up with 20 years? I never said anything about that.

A lot of people are suggesting timelines of 10, 15, 20 or more years before they can 'know it's safe'.

 

[rturner76]

A lot of people are suggesting timelines of 10, 15, 20 or more years before they can 'know it's safe'.

By that time, the virus would have mutated multiple times so in 20 years it could be a completely altered version of the one we have now.

 

[renniks]

Seems unlikely, as there wouldn't be any drugs at all if we were required to test them for 20 years before release. Wonder what the negative long-term effects of acetaminophen and asprin are....oh, right, nobody cares.

Of course people care.. and taking too much aspirin can have negative effects.
I don't know how you can claim they're no long-term effects when there have already been short-term effects confirmed in some people.

 

[Hammster]

A lot of people are suggesting timelines of 10, 15, 20 or more years before they can 'know it's safe'.

Did I?

 

[Halbhh]

But what are the long term effects of them?

As some may have pointed out, a trained immune system:

The immune system remembers how to make fresh antibodies if needed and other parts of it also can mount an attack, he said.

Antibodies are proteins that white blood cells called B cells make to bind to the virus and help eliminate it. The earliest ones are fairly crude but as infection goes on, the immune system becomes trained to focus its attack and to make more precise antibodies.

Dr. Otto Yang and others at the University of California, Los Angeles, measured these more precise antibodies in 30 patients diagnosed with COVID-19 and four housemates presumed to have the disease. Their average age was 43 and most had mild symptoms.

Researchers found that the antibodies had a half-life of 36 days, which means that half of them would be gone after that much time. It dovetails with a previous report from China also suggesting antibodies quickly fade.

The results “call for caution regarding antibody-based ‘immunity passports,’ herd immunity, and perhaps vaccine durability,” the California authors write.

That’s true, Creech said, but other parts of the immune system also help confer protection. Besides churning out antibodies, B cells develop a memory so they know how to do that again if needed.

“They would get called into action very quickly when there’s a new exposure to the virus. It’s as if they lie dormant, just waiting,” he said.

Virus antibodies fade fast but not necessarily protection

In a similar way, vaccination has a lasting effect, even though the antibodies fade over time. Also, it's been sounding likely that older people will be recommended to get a booster at some point to up their antibodies for a more rapid response.

Because even though the immune system after 6 or more months is still having an edge vs no vaccination at all, the larger amount of antibodies from a more recent shot is a bigger edge.
Israeli data seems to show COVID vaccine protection starts fading after 6 months

 

[Blade]

There aren't any.

Maybe you need to tell them. Well THEY that make the drug said "we don't know what the long term side effects will be". Then go tell this "there aren't any" to the thousands of thousands that have all kind of side effects. We as in my wife her friends husband STILL cannot taste anything. So.. sorry your words have no weight.

We know some have died after the vaccine. Anyone can find these stories and duh ALL are lying.. I know sure. We know you can still get covid after taking the vaccine. Christian site.. I read the heart cry from the dad that said daughter took the vaccine 2 months ago now has covid PLEASE PRAY! My wifes friend.. same thing.. they got the shot 6 months ago.

So the vaccine does help.. yet it is far far far from truly protecting you. WISE to ask seek search contact your doctor. Not some web site on the internet where ITS SAFE to NO DON'T TAKE IT haha

 

[Tanj]

Of course people care.. and taking too much aspirin can have negative effects.

And the relationship between overdosing and long term effects of correct dosing is...?

It's like I said something like "people die in car crashes". and your response was "people fly in planes"

I don't know how you can claim they're no long-term effects when there have already been short-term effects confirmed in some people.

As I said before, show me one "long term effect" from any vaccine, ever.

 

[renniks]

And the relationship between overdosing and long term effects of correct dosing is...?

It's like I said something like "people die in car crashes". and your response was "people fly in planes"



As I said before, show me one "long term effect" from any vaccine, ever.

A blood clot can certainly be a long term effect.

 

[Hammster]

As I said before, show me one "long term effect" from any vaccine, ever.

That’s like saying, show me one car model on the road today that doesn’t meet government standards.

 

[Tanj]

A blood clot can certainly be a long term effect.

Well it can kill you..though is death a "long term effect"...anyway, that's not what people mean by "long term effect". What they mean is they are well years afterwards then develop some kind of dysfunction or disease which can be traced back to the vaccine. Blood clots appear within a month of the injection.

 

[Tanj]

That’s like saying, show me one car model on the road today that doesn’t meet government standards.

Umm...wouldn't it be more like saying there was a car model that was on the road that met government standards for years and years and then was suddenly found to have a defect that required a recall?

 

[Hammster]

Umm...wouldn't it be more like saying there was a car model that was on the road that met government standards for years and years and then was suddenly found to have a defect that required a recall?

And now you get it.

 

[Tanj]

And now you get it.

https://autonxt.net/latest-automotive-safety-recalls/

That site shows a recall in 2021 of a 2007 model, which means "long term effects" in cars exists...so...got any examples of that for vaccines?