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Vaccines Save Lives

Hammster

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Tanj

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Do you really not get it?

Drug Recalls

Not a vaccine to be found in that list, and 3/364 that could possibly fall under "long term effects". So one of us doesn't get it.

ETA great site though, thanks for the resource.
 
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Hammster

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Not a vaccine to be found in that list, and 3/364 that could possibly fall under "long term effects". So one of us doesn't get it.

ETA great site though, thanks for the resource.
You just want to focus on vaccines. That’s like focusing on one trim model of car. But as long as you think you win, I guess that’s all that is important.
 
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renniks

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Well it can kill you..though is death a "long term effect"...anyway, that's not what people mean by "long term effect". What they mean is they are well years afterwards then develop some kind of dysfunction or disease which can be traced back to the vaccine. Blood clots appear within a month of the injection.
So if the blood clot causes long-term effects it's not a long term effect? Kinda splitting hairs aren't you?
 
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Tanj

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You just want to focus on vaccines.

That is the topic of the conversation.

That’s like focusing on one trim model of car. But as long as you think you win, I guess that’s all that is important.

What ever gets you through the day, I guess.
 
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Tanj

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So if the blood clot causes long-term effects it's not a long term effect? Kinda splitting hairs aren't you?

Well, I don't think I am, but it's my interpretation of the question "what about long term effects" as per the OP. I do not infer from that "what about long term effects we already know about based on known short terms findings"
 
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Tanj

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It is. And vaccines are drugs that need developed like other drugs.

No they don't. Biologics and SMEs are different kettles of fish. Regardless, you still haven't pointed to a single long term effect from a vaccine. Vaccine recalls, when they happen, are due to contamination of batches, not long term effects. The only historical potential "long term effect" with respect to vaccines would be the SV40 contamination of polio vaccine in the late 50s, though all the studies show that there is no effect in that instance.
 
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renniks

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Well, I don't think I am, but it's my interpretation of the question "what about long term effects" as per the OP. I do not infer from that "what about long term effects we already know about based on known short terms findings"
So you say there aren't any long term effects based on what?
 
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Hammster

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No they don't. Biologics and SMEs are different kettles of fish. Regardless, you still haven't pointed to a single long term effect from a vaccine. Vaccine recalls, when they happen, are due to contamination of batches, not long term effects. The only historical potential "long term effect" with respect to vaccines would be the SV40 contamination of polio vaccine in the late 50s, though all the studies show that there is no effect in that instance.
So no long term effects of past vaccines mean no long term effects of these ones. Got it.
 
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Tanj

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So you say there aren't any long term effects based on what?

Based in part on there not having been any long term effects reported for any vaccine in the history of vaccines, and in part on 30 years of experience working in the industry, with a solid understanding of virology, immunology, vaccinology, and biostats.
 
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Hammster

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Based in part on there not having been any long term effects reported for any vaccine in the history of vaccines, and in part on 30 years of experience working in the industry, with a solid understanding of virology, immunology, vaccinology, and biostats.
Has every vaccine put forth been approved?
 
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renniks

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Based in part on there not having been any long term effects reported for any vaccine in the history of vaccines, and in part on 30 years of experience working in the industry, with a solid understanding of virology, immunology, vaccinology, and biostats.
Only these aren't the vaccines used in the past, so you are just guessing at best.
 
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Tanj

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Has every vaccine put forth been approved?

It's a complicated question because vaccine approval is country or region specific. For example, the European AZ vaccine is approved in Europe, but neither the Australian made nor Indian made versions are.

Then there's the vaccines that not only do not work, but in fact make things worse
Fixing a failed vaccine - Nature Medicine

And there's a huge number of dengue vaccines that died completely, not to mention the only one approved after decades of attempts is probably worse that the disease, at least in some cases
DEFINE_ME

So the bottom line is there's quite a few vaccines that either didn't get approved, or were withdrawn after approval for not doing their job.

ETA the pfizer covid vacc is fully approved in Australia, but not (yet) the US.
 
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Tanj

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Only these aren't the vaccines used in the past, so you are just guessing at best.

Is it just the mRNA vaccines you care about? Because there's 105 vaccines currently in trial or market, and another 184 in preclin, and as much as I love discussing things with you guys, I'm not going to track down the methodology for all 290 of them.
 
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Hammster

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It's a complicated question because vaccine approval is country or region specific. For example, the European AZ vaccine is approved in Europe, but neither the Australian made nor Indian made versions are.

Then there's the vaccines that not only do not work, but in fact make things worse
Fixing a failed vaccine - Nature Medicine

And there's a huge number of dengue vaccines that died completely, not to mention the only one approved after decades of attempts is probably worse that the disease, at least in some cases
DEFINE_ME

So the bottom line is there's quite a few vaccines that either didn't get approved, or were withdrawn after approval for not doing their job.

ETA the pfizer covid vacc is fully approved in Australia, but not (yet) the US.
Thanks. That reinforces my point. I’m not saying that there will be problems with these vaccines. I’m saying that we have no idea whether or not there will be since they were rushed and didn’t go through the normal testing and approval process.
 
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Tanj

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Thanks. That reinforces my point. I’m not saying that there will be problems with these vaccines. I’m saying that we have no idea whether or not there will be since they were rushed and didn’t go through the normal testing and approval process.

Except we do have an idea, not only because of the testing that was done, but also because we've been able to track the results over the last 6-8 months. Also...not sure why you are so enamoured of the existing approval process, especially with the FDA. It's dreadful.
 
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By that time, the virus would have mutated multiple times so in 20 years it could be a completely altered version of the one we have now.

I told them that but they won't listen.
 
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RDKirk

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CIDP
Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy. CIDP is when the body’s immune system slowly attacks the peripheral nerves. The disease causes weakness or paralysis of the legs and arms.

CIDP can be triggered by:
  • Flu vaccine
  • Hepatitis-B vaccine
  • Measles, Mumps, Rubella vaccine
Proven in court.. Lawsuits have been been won.


I think I'll sit back and sip my chocolate space tea now... mmmm!

Not a "long term" effect, in terms of something happening only after some long period after the vaccination..

The reason a vaccine does not have a long-term effect is because the body disposes of vaccines in a short period of time, days or a couple of weeks, whereas drugs can accumulate over time in the body.

A vaccine is composed of simple fats and proteins, which the body will oxidize in a few days (or even hours in a fasting person). Whatever effect a vaccine is going to have, it does so very quickly before the body oxidizes it.

The effect may be long-lasting...in fact, we hope the effect is long lasting. But that effect is going to occur very quickly...it's not going to take weeks or months or years. It may be subtle and may need tests to present it, but will have happened relatively quickly.
 
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RDKirk

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Has any vaccine ever been as rushed through as the covid one?

Yes. Having been in the military, I've had a couple of "Investigative New Drugs" (INDs) that get special FDA dispensation. In some cases, they're substances originally developed for entirely different purposes that may have some other applications that the military needs for some specific reason.

But the only thing that got "rushed" for the covid vaccines was that the FDA approved their use before the end of the six-month efficacy test. That is, six months of efficacy had not been proven before the emergency authorization was given. Of course, the vaccines at this point have proven their six months efficacy. Other tests were accomplished as normally required.
 
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