Unvaccinated hospitalized patients say they regret not getting the shot

[FireDragon76]

We're safe. The berries will protect us...

I'm into alternative medicine, I have been for years, but I was the first in my family to get vaccinated. You shouldn't mess around with anything that can land you in the ICU, it's just... nuts. It's a sad thing this has been polticized.

 

[The Narrow Way]

that’s great. However, hopefully you are not an asymptotic carrier that transmitted to others unknowingly.

Do believe covid is spread by only symptomatic people?

Of course not...people can spread it who are not showing symptoms. I'm a homebody....work from home, and am not out in public much so you don't have to worry about me spreading it

 

[pitabread]

I laugh at people calling us afraid of a disease that kills .6% when they are freaked out about a vaccine that doesn't even kill .6% of .6%.

Human beings are generally bad at understanding probabilities.

 

[loveofourlord]

Human beings are generally bad at understanding probabilities.

True and like I think I said last time, another big part of it is. One is passively causing your death, other is actively. If I catch covid because I'm not vaccinated I die because it just happened, but if I take the vaccine and died, I chose what killed me.

 

[Strathos]

True and like I think I said last time, another big part of it is. One is passively causing your death, other is actively. If I catch covid because I'm not vaccinated I die because it just happened, but if I take the vaccine and died, I chose what killed me.

Is there even any actual proof of anyone dying as a direct result of the vaccine? I'd imagine that if there is, the amount of confirmed cases is not very large.

 

[loveofourlord]

Is there even any actual proof of anyone dying as a direct result of the vaccine? I'd imagine that if there is, the amount of confirmed cases is not very large.

well not fully, but even at worse numbers we have it was like 5k people who had vaccines infected and 140 people dead since january, and on that very day it was posted here 50k were tested positive and around 2k died in the US.

 

[Strathos]

well not fully, but even at worse numbers we have it was like 5k people who had vaccines infected and 140 people dead since january, and on that very day it was posted here 50k were tested positive and around 2k died in the US.

Sounds like you're talking about people who died despite the vaccine, not because of it.

 

[pitabread]

True and like I think I said last time, another big part of it is. One is passively causing your death, other is actively. If I catch covid because I'm not vaccinated I die because it just happened, but if I take the vaccine and died, I chose what killed me.

This is where anti-vax behaviors seems in part about exerting control over events people otherwise don't have control over.

Adoption of conspiracy theories is similar behavior. It gives people the ability to choose their reality rather than having to deal with reality as it really is.

 

[The Narrow Way]

Don't think it did these people any good to get the vaccine....and it looks like they probably have spread it to others.... Doubt this is "just a rare case" either ~Vaccinated Leader at Florida Condo Site Tests Positive for COVID-19

 

[loveofourlord]

Don't think it did these people any good to get the vaccine....and it looks like they probably have spread it to others.... Doubt this is "just a rare case" either ~Vaccinated Leader at Florida Condo Site Tests Positive for COVID-19

Yeah, and how many DIDN"T spread it or get sick, guess you can't get those figures because they aren't visible. BUt we have the figures on those that ARE sick and died.

 

[The Narrow Way]

Yeah, and how many DIDN"T spread it or get sick, guess you can't get those figures because they aren't visible. BUt we have the figures on those that ARE sick and died.

Not really...those figures are so INFLATED that no one really knows how many really died from Chinese Corona Virus. Anytime the Govt pays hospitals MORE $ for those who died from Corona than other illnesses, that REEKS of CORRUPTION.

 

[loveofourlord]

Not really...those figures are so INFLATED that no one really knows how many really died from Chinese Corona Virus. Anytime the Govt pays hospitals MORE $ for those who died from Corona than other illnesses, that REEKS of CORRUPTION.

you guys keep lying about that, but the actual figures show it's under played, but keep at it, I'm sure everyone is glad you lie about thousands of death.

 

[whatbogsends]

Is there even any actual proof of anyone dying as a direct result of the vaccine? I'd imagine that if there is, the amount of confirmed cases is not very large.

They never actually confirm it, they just say it was "likely".

The review reported on 19 May and concluded that a causal link between the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and death was considered “likely” in 10 of the 100 cases, “possible” in 26 cases, and “unlikely” in 59 cases. The remaining five were deemed “unclassifiable.”1

Covid-19: Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is “likely” responsible for deaths of some elderly patients, Norwegian review finds | The BMJ

 

[Bradskii]

Not really...those figures are so INFLATED that no one really knows how many really died from Chinese Corona Virus. Anytime the Govt pays hospitals MORE $ for those who died from Corona than other illnesses, that REEKS of CORRUPTION.

If you're unlucky enough to catch covid (and the means that you are pushing to prevent that are pretty much 'eat berries' and you can't be bothered to wear a mask and you admit being in contact with those that have it - so I'd say there's a reasonable chance), then we can expect you to demand that extra payments from the government or Medicare given to the hospital to cover the extra cost for your treatment are refused.

Good to know the money will go to help someone who doesn't have such a cavalier attitude to a disease that has killed in excess of 600,000 people in the US alone.

 

[Strathos]

They never actually confirm it, they just say it was "likely".

The review reported on 19 May and concluded that a causal link between the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and death was considered “likely” in 10 of the 100 cases, “possible” in 26 cases, and “unlikely” in 59 cases. The remaining five were deemed “unclassifiable.”1

Covid-19: Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is “likely” responsible for deaths of some elderly patients, Norwegian review finds | The BMJ

So 10 probable cases. Compared to the vast decrease of deaths from the virus since the vaccine was made available, I think that's a good trade off.

 

[claninja]

Of course not...people can spread it who are not showing symptoms. I'm a homebody....work from home, and am not out in public much so you don't have to worry about me spreading it

great, so if you agree asymptotic people can unknowingly transmit the virus, what do you propose they do to help reduce the transmission?

 

[cow451]

great, so if you agree asymptotic people can unknowingly transmit the virus, what do you propose they do to help reduce the transmission?

Harsh language?

 

[KCfromNC]

Nearly a third of people in the United States are apparently not going in for routine healthcare during the COVID-19 pandemic.

A recent poll from the American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP) reported that 29 percent of Americans are avoiding or delaying medical care due to fear of contracting the new coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2.

Experts say that trend could lead to an increase in the number of people who die due to the pandemic but not directly from the virus itself.
...
The researchers say the number of excess deaths isn’t necessarily attributable directly to COVID-19, but it could include people who were too frightened to seek treatment for unrelated illnesses due to the pandemic.

Excess Deaths: People Are Dying Because of COVID-19 but Not from It (healthline.com)

Delay or Avoidance of Medical Care Because of COVID-19–Related Concerns — United States, June 2020 | MMWR (cdc.gov)

What percentage of the excess deaths are you implying came from this?

 

[whatbogsends]

What percentage of the excess deaths are you implying came from this?

I'm not "implying" anything. I'm citing sources which talk about the obvious fact that not all excess deaths were from Covid. The reality is that we don't know the percentage of excess deaths that were truly from Covid vs. those that were truly from impacts from the response to pandemic.

Woolf said he and his team suspect that some of these were indirect deaths from the pandemic that occurred among people with acute emergencies, such as a heart attack or stroke, who may have been afraid to go to a hospital for fear of getting the virus. Those who did seek emergency care, particularly in the areas hardest hit by the virus, may not have been able to get the treatment they needed, such as ventilator support, if the hospital was overwhelmed by the surge.

Others may have died from a chronic health condition, such as diabetes or cancer, that was exacerbated by the effects of the pandemic, said Woolf, VCU’s C. Kenneth and Dianne Wright Distinguished Chair in Population Health and Health Equity. Still others may have struggled to deal with the consequences of job loss or social isolation.

“We can’t forget about mental health,” Woolf said. “A number of people struggling with depression, addiction and very difficult economic conditions caused by lockdowns may have become increasingly desperate, and some may have died by suicide. People addicted to opioids and other drugs may have overdosed. All told, what we’re seeing is a death count well beyond what we would normally expect for this time of year, and it’s only partially explained by COVID-19.”
...
“The findings from our VCU researchers’ study confirm an alarming trend across the U.S., where community members experiencing a health emergency are staying home — a decision that can have long-term, and sometimes fatal, consequences,” said Peter Buckley, M.D., interim CEO of VCU Health System and interim senior vice president of VCU Health Sciences. “Health systems nationwide need to let patients know it is safe and important to seek care in a health emergency, whether it’s through telehealth or in person.”

JAMA study: 35% of excess deaths during pandemic’s early months tied to causes other than COVID-19 (vcu.edu)


As COVID-19 continues to rapidly spread, our attention often focuses on the numbers of confirmed and probable cases, hospitalizations, and deaths, which can be called the “direct” effects of the pandemic. However, these numbers do not capture the full extent of the pandemic, because it has also generated important “spillover” (or “indirect”) effects by decreasing the supply of and altering patient demand for non-COVID-19-related medical care. As a result, patients are postponing or forgoing a wide variety of services, ranging from emergency treatment of acute conditions, to routine check-ups, to recommended cancer screenings.

Delayed or forgone care may already be driving alarming health trends, including excess deaths not attributed to COVID-19. As the pandemic persists, missed care could accumulate and also generate detrimental long-term effects on patient health caused by both known and undiagnosed conditions. Moreover, prolonged care avoidance could disproportionately impact outcomes for vulnerable patient groups. It is therefore crucial to not only understand how these potential long-term effects might manifest, but to also begin conducting longitudinal research that can inform policies and initiatives to assist at-risk populations.

Spillover Effects Of The COVID-19 Pandemic Could Drive Long-Term Health Consequences For Non-COVID-19 Patients | Health Affairs

The research team projected that the spring 2020 spike in unemployment in the United States would lead to 30,231 excess deaths among 25- to 64-year-olds in the ensuing 12 months. As with the deaths that were directly caused by the virus, those linked to unemployment have taken a disproportionate toll on Black people, men, older people (in the case of workers, those who were 45 and up), and especially those with the least education.

While about 37 percent of Americans aged 25 to 64 years have a high school education or less, this group accounted for a startling 72 percent of the deaths the researchers attributed to pandemic-related unemployment. Likewise, while Black people make up 12 percent of the working-age population, they comprised 19 percent of the projected excess deaths.

Study Estimates Excess Deaths in US from COVID-19 Pandemic Unemployment | UC San Francisco (ucsf.edu)

 

[whatbogsends]

So 10 probable cases. Compared to the vast decrease of deaths from the virus since the vaccine was made available, I think that's a good trade off.

10 probable and 26 likely in one study in Norway.

Obviously, they were a 10 off, and even including those, the "official" count is zero.