Universal Resurrection

[DavidPT]

I have proved many times, that 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, is a prophecy about the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium.
Only then is Death no more and those made immortal will go into Eternity with God.

If it is, you seriously need to consider switching to Amil since that might possibly work with Amil. It for sure can't work with Premil, not even remotely.

 

[keras]

If it is, you seriously need to consider switching to Amil since that might possibly work with Amil. It for sure can't work with Premil, not even remotely.

I have no desire to 'switch' anywhere.
My position is that the sequence of events as Written in Revelation, will happen, as is also described throughout the Bible.

1 Corinthians 15:55 and Revelation 21:4 are matching prophesies. Both tell us when Death will be no more - AFTER the Millennium.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I have no desire to 'switch' anywhere.
My position is that the sequence of events as Written in Revelation, will happen, as is also described throughout the Bible.

1 Corinthians 15:55 and Revelation 21:4 are matching prophesies. Both tell us when Death will be no more - AFTER the Millennium.

Whatever angle you look at it, Premil is man trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't know how long it might involve, meaning any events involving the 2nd coming, but what I do tend to think is this. The reason Amils, maybe not all Amils, insist that all of these events happen in this same twinkling of an eye is in order to not have to deal with any chronology of events. Chonology of events meaning---the 2nd coming happens first, follwed by the dead in Christ rising first, followed by the rapture, followed by Christ and His armies THEN confronting the beast and it's armies, followed by the beast and false prophet getting cast alive into the LOF, while the remnant are slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

At this point in the chronology, until Revelation 19:21 is at least fulfilled first, there couldn't possibly be the GWTJ prior to any of those events. No one, neither Premils nor Amils, should argue that the GWTJ precedes the fulfillment of Revelation 19:21. It's obvious that it follows it. Whether it follows it during the 2nd coming events, or a thousand years and a little season later, that is debatable. What should not be debatable is that the GWTJ is after the fulfillment of Revelation 19:21, and not prior to it instead.

So where do you put the separation of the goats and sheep? Then after that the tares and wheat harvest? They are separated harvest. These are living people whose souls leave the body differently than those killed by the sword (battle).

 

[Timtofly]

If it is, you seriously need to consider switching to Amil since that might possibly work with Amil. It for sure can't work with Premil, not even remotely.

He cannot be amil. None of them nor post mill allow Christ to physically rule on earth for 1000 years. The point is the Second Coming happens after Christ is already on earth for many eschatological views. They have no answer for this conundrum.

 

[jeffweedaman]

The point is the Second Coming happens after Christ is already on earth for many eschatological views.

How can Christ be on earth before he comes a second time?

see post 183
Whatever angle you look at it, Premil is man trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

 

[Timtofly]

How can Christ be on earth before he comes a second time?

see post 183
Whatever angle you look at it, Premil is man trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

Exactly! You all have Christ returning after the Second Coming has already happened. You all are not even using pegs or holes.

 

[ewq1938]

I have proved many times, that 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, is a prophecy about the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium.

The passage places it at the last trump which is the second coming/7th trump, not after the thousand years.

 

[DavidPT]

see post 183
Whatever angle you look at it, Premil is man trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

I saw that post earlier. I think SG made a typo and apparently spelled Amil wrong. Amil is not spelled "P r e m i l', it is spelled 'A m i l'.

 

[keras]

The passage places it at the last trump which is the second coming/7th trump, not after the thousand years.

Absolutely not!
1 Cor 15 is a sequence of events and verses 50-56 prophecy about the final Judgment; after the Millennium.
We have very good descriptions of what happens at the Return of Jesus. The prophecies of 1 Corinthians 15:24-56 do not relate to the Return. They are all about the GWT Judgment at the end of the 7000 year decreed time of God's plan for mankind. [Note esp: verse 24]

 

[ewq1938]

Absolutely not!

You remain incorrect. It is well established and understood that the last trump is the 7th trump in Revelation and that is the second coming timeframe. It is also well established and understood by most scholars that immortality does come to the saved at that same second coming. Your belief is of private interpretation.

 

[ewq1938]

Absolutely not!
1 Cor 15 is a sequence of events and verses 50-56 prophecy about the final Judgment; after the Millennium.
We have very good descriptions of what happens at the Return of Jesus. The prophecies of 1 Corinthians 15:24-56 do not relate to the Return. They are all about the GWT Judgment at the end of the 7000 year decreed time of God's plan for mankind. [Note esp: verse 24]

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Christ used the same exact word for his own physical resurrection. Did Christ not live again physically and in immortality after being dead?

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive (zao) for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


These people are the first of the human dead to go from death to living just as Christ did and this new living is immortality just as Christ rose in an immortal body. The first resurrection of Revelation 20 is like Christ's own resurrection.

 

[jeffweedaman]

I saw that post earlier. I think SG made a typo and apparently spelled Amil wrong. Amil is not spelled "P r e m i l', it is spelled 'A m i l'.

If thats the case then Jesus, Paul and Peter [ the NT] is just one big typo.
Your take on the book of Rev is your undoing of the obvious scriptures quoted to you today.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi,

The bible says there will be a Universal Resurrection of the dead and living when Jesus returns.

Can someone please explain how it works.

Is it Jesus who will resurrect everyone at His Second Coming?

And how come it says a 1000 year period?
Is that the New Heaven/Earth (remade Universe)?

And does that happen after the Universal Resurrection?

Thank you for any clarification!

Hi Mike,

Actually God`s word does not say there will be a universal resurrection when Jesus returns.

Jesus said "Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth - those who have done good to resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.' (John 5: 28 & 29)

Note the words - `all who are in the graves...`

The Body of Christ is NOT in the graves nor are the Old Testament saints for they are in the General Assembly in the angelic realm.

`You have come to Mount Zion....to an innumerable company of angels to the general Assembly and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits (OT saints) of just men (& women) made perfect.` (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

And we know that the whole Body of Christ will be gathered together when the Lord descends and brings with Him those who sleep in Him. They receive their new immortal, incorruptible bodies and go to the third heaven where they will rule and reign with Christ on His throne. (Rev. 3: 21)

Now those who are IN the graves will come forth, when death is done away with just before the new heavens and new earth, at the great White Throne. Their judgment is upon their works - done good, or done evil.

The Body of Christ & the Old Testament saints are NOT judged for Christ took their judgment upon the cross.

The 1,000 period is for Israel to fulfill their mandate of rulership over the nations under Christ`s rulership from heaven.

regards Marilyn.

 

[keras]

You remain incorrect. It is well established and understood that the last trump is the 7th trump in Revelation and that is the second coming timeframe. It is also well established and understood by most scholars that immortality does come to the saved at that same second coming.

But NOT in the Bible.
What about the Seven Bowls, they come after the 7th Trumpet.

Nothing in the Bible says that immortality is given to anyone before the Book of Life is opened. Which will be after the Millennium.
'Most scholars' are wrong about end times understanding. Jesus told us this would be the case. Matthew 11:25 and Isaiah 42:18-20

 

[keras]

These people are the first of the human dead to go from death to living just as Christ did and this new living is immortality just as Christ rose in an immortal body.

Revelation 20:4-5 does not say those resurrected martyrs will become immortal. It says they will be brought back to life; as Lazarus was.
Verse 5 says they can die again. [as Lazarus did]

 

[sovereigngrace]

I saw that post earlier. I think SG made a typo and apparently spelled Amil wrong. Amil is not spelled "P r e m i l', it is spelled 'A m i l'.

Forget about the partisan rhetoric, please furnish us with solid corroboration for the Premil theory.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I have no desire to 'switch' anywhere.
My position is that the sequence of events as Written in Revelation, will happen, as is also described throughout the Bible.

1 Corinthians 15:55 and Revelation 21:4 are matching prophesies. Both tell us when Death will be no more - AFTER the Millennium.

We know that 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 will occur "at the last trumpet", right? It indicates that the dead in Christ are raised at that time (1 Cor 15:52) and, along with those in Christ who are alive at the time, will be "changed" and have incorruptible, immortal bodies.

In 1 Cor 15:22-23 and 1 Thess 4:13-17, Paul indicates that the dead in Christ will be raised at His second coming. Therefore, using scripture to interpret scripture, the last trumpet will sound at His second coming since that is when the dead in Christ will be raised. This places the timing of 1 Corinthinas 15:55 (and Rev 21:4) at His second coming, but you somehow have it occurring 1000+ years after His second coming, which makes no sense.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

He cannot be amil. None of them nor post mill allow Christ to physically rule on earth for 1000 years. The point is the Second Coming happens after Christ is already on earth for many eschatological views. They have no answer for this conundrum.

I'm not aware of any eschatological view that has Christ already on earth before the second coming. That doesn't even make any sense.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Here is a question or two for Amils that believe both believers and unbelievers are present at the GWTJ and are being judged according to their works.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


Assuming Amil, this is meaning things that end up involving the 2nd coming at the end of these events.

There are two groups in view---1) the group which surrounds the camp of saints. 2) the camp of saints being surrounded. As can be seen in verse 9, it is the ones surrounding the camp of saints that are killed. The camp of saints come out untouched, unharmed, the fact the fire from God out of heaven doesn't devour them as well, but only devours their attackers.

After this event, per Amil, the GWTJ then commences. Here is the question, then. The fact the camp of saints don't end up dead, how is it that they somehow end up among the resurrected dead standing before God at the GWTJ?

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Can any Amil point out in the above verses which line the camp of saints in verse 9 are standing in? Are they standing in the line among the dead, small and great? Are they standing in the line among the dead from the sea? Are they standing in the line among the dead from death and hell?

Just because a certain group of people isn't specifically mentioned within a certain passage doesn't mean the event described in that passage can't have anything to do with them.

For example, we know that Christ will take vengeance on His enemies when He comes (2 Thess 1:7-10), but there's no mention of that in passages like 1 Thess 4:13-17. Should we draw conclusions from 1 Thess 4:13-17 that Christ won't be dealing at all with His enemies when He comes just because they are not mentioned in that passage that relates to His second coming?

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

When else could the above passage be fulfilled for those who are still alive when Revelation 20:9 occurs except for at the GWTJ? There would be no other time for that to occur. So, there's no basis for thinking that people who hadn't died won't be there at the GWTJ just because they are not specifically mentioned in Revelation 20:11-15.