Universal Reconciliation

[SusanD.]

If heaven and earth have not passed away, then we are still under the old testament covenant, and Christ as not yet fulfilled the OT law and prophets. Matthew 5:18, "For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished."

Hi.
Followers of Christ Jesus are not still under the old covenant, there is no Biblical basis for that. Have you read Hebrews in the Bible? It makes clear the distinction between being under the old covenant and the new in Christ, for example:-

(Heb 9:12-15)
"Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance."

If you believe we are still under the old covenant, are you sacrificing animals or asking a priest to sacrifice animals for your atonement? I guess not... The Lord Jesus said that He came to fulfill the law and the prophets. A fulfillment talks of completion, so we find our completion in the Lord Jesus. If we are not following Him, we have no redemption. This is why 'universal reconciliation' can't work, because not everyone accepts the Lord Jesus' sacrifice for our sins so they remain in their sins, no redemption.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[claninja]

Heaven and earth will pass away a bit before the new earth. OT prophecy is still being fulfilled- accomplished.

It passed away "a bit"? IF heaven and earth have not passed away, then we are still under the OT law and should be teaching everyone to follow it to the T; no changes allowed: circumcision, food, sacrificing.....

Matthew 5:18-20
18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[claninja]

Hi.
Followers of Christ Jesus are not still under the old covenant, there is no Biblical basis for that. Have you read Hebrews in the Bible? It makes clear the distinction between being under the old covenant and the new in Christ, for example:-

(Heb 9:12-15)
"Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance."

If you believe we are still under the old covenant, are you sacrificing animals or asking a priest to sacrifice animals for your atonement? I guess not... The Lord Jesus said that He came to fulfill the law and the prophets. A fulfillment talks of completion, so we find our completion in the Lord Jesus. If we are not following Him, we have no redemption. This is why 'universal reconciliation' can't work, because not everyone accepts the Lord Jesus' sacrifice for our sins so they remain in their sins, no redemption.

I completely agree with you!

If heaven and earth have not passed away, then yes, we are still under the old covenant. As Jesus clearly states in Matthew 5:18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

But, you are correct, we are no longer under the old testament law because Christ did fulfill the law and the prophets. Therefore, heaven and earth (the old covenant) have passed away. We are now living in the more glorious new covenant.

 

[claninja]

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Revelation 2

13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew 24

We know that all does not always mean all in entirety. We know whole world does not always mean whole world in entirety.

Why did God need to give Peter a vision? Didn't he already know he was supposed preach the gospel to the whole world (outside Israel)?

Acts 10:28-29
28 and he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit any one of another nation; but God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me.”

 

[claninja]

When do you think the kingdom of God came/comes?
We know that it did not happen at the transfiguration vision, because even later when Joseph begged the body of Jesus Christ - it is stated that - he waited for the kingdom.

The kingdom came with Christ: with his death and resurrection, with the gift of the holy spirit, and the fulfillment of the old covenant. It is righteousness, joy, and peace in the holy spirit and it will never end. It something we can enjoy now and not even death can separate us from it.

 

[claninja]

armies -not one army will surround Jerusalem

Daniel 9 shows that the 70th week was not the time of Titus and the people destroying the city and the temple of God.

Daniel 9 refers to two determined times.
70 weeks
and unto the end of the war desolations/this part was to come and end before the final week ever started

So because it says armies and not army, it cannot be Rome that surrounded and destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in from 66-70AD?

Also, the 70 week prophecy is about Israel, not the rest of the world

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[claninja]

armies -not one army will surround Jerusalem

Daniel 9 shows that the 70th week was not the time of Titus and the people destroying the city and the temple of God.

Daniel 9 refers to two determined times.
70 weeks
and unto the end of the war desolations/this part was to come and end before the final week ever started

"Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city"

So based on what Gabriel tells Daniel, we can see that the 70 week prophecy is about the Israelites and Jerusalem. Based on that, you are saying that the destruction of the 2nd temple is not what Daniel or Christ was talking about. You are saying there is a couple thousand year gap in between the 69th and 70th week? So at some point in the future, a third temple will be constructed and destroyed, even though there is only mention of a second temple being constructed (not 3rd temple) in the 70 week prophecy?

 

[claninja]

In Revelation 19, what leaves heaven with Christ?
armies
But when you read the last part of the chapter as to the battle - what does Christ have?
army
Then later we find in Rev. 20:4 - they sat
-the beheaded people will join this group

People are missing or just outright ignoring what is actually written in the Scriptures as to use of "the",
then, for, a, plurals-and more.

Still not following you with this. Christ has armies? but Rome cannot have armies?

Daniel 9 is about the curse that was warned of back in Deuteronomy 28:48. the yoke or iron
Babylon's king
This curse came to the start of it in Jeremiah 28:14.
It did not just go on Israel - but on the necks of the nations. The nations shall serve the king of Babylon.
Read Jeremiah 25 and see where a cup was taken to the nations...at the end the king of Shinar/Babylon will drink last to be punished.
The final king of Babylon has not yet fallen. This kingdom was given 70 years over the nations and so far has been waiting in limbo for them to get the last 3-4 years of that time.
former empire - began 605 BC ----fell 539 BC

I would say you are partially correct about the curse warned of in Deuteronomy 28:48. I would also say it is part of the Leviticus 26 curse, where their punishment is multiplied by 7 times if they don't turn back to God after already being punished.

"This kingdom was given 70 years over the nations and so far has been waiting in limbo for them to get the last 3-4 years of that time.
former empire - began 605 BC ----fell 539 BC"

I would have to disagree with you on this being a future end time event.
The 70 years of exile was fulfilled in the OT.

Jeremiah 29:10 is where the 70 year exile at the hand of the Babylon is prophesied
2 Chronicles 36: Cyrus fulfills the prophecy in Jeremiah.
If we use the Jewish historical timeline and not the secular historical time line we get this:
Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar) ruled over Judea starting in about 441 BCE. 70 years later, Cyrus of Persia began his rule over judea in about 371 BCE. This would fulfill the 70 year exile prophesied by Jeremiah.

 

[claninja]

At what exact step do you think it came?
Thy kingdom come - Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.


Acts 1:6

“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?”

I don't think there is an exact "step" at which it came. I don't think it is a physical kingdom.

Israel wanted the messiah to come, overthrow the Roman rule, and set up an earthly kingdom.
But as we know, that did not happen. Because the kingdom of God is not food and drink.

The kingdom of heaven is like a marriage feast (Matthew 22) and even like wicked tenants (Matthew 21). The kingdom of heaven is not like what happens after these events, but during.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm