Universal Reconciliation

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[claninja]

Jeremiah 25:11-12 is not about how long Babylon has a kingdom, but how long the nations serve Babylon/Nebuchadnezzar was when that time started.
Jeremiah 25:15 shows that Jeremiah took a cup to the nations and they were to drink.
Revelation 18 also mentions that the nations drank.

These nations shall serve the king of Babylon 70 years.
The captivity -as to when Daniel and some other were taken to Babylon did not happen until the time of Nebuchadnezzar II, 605 BC. Before this time, Judah was still paying tribute to Egypt.
But in Jeremiah 28, we find that yokes will go on the nations to serve Babylon. When the time of Jacob's
trouble happens, we find that at the end of that time a yoke - his - yoke - breaks. Jeremiah 30:6-9.

I agree with you that it is not about how long Babylon has a kingdom. The Neo-Babylonian Kingdom began in about 626 BC and ended in 539 BC = 87 years. That is much longer than 70.

From 626 BC to 609 BC, the Babylonians and Assyrians fought for control of the Mesopotamia area. It was not until 609 BC, when Babylon defeated Assyrian, that they finally controlled the Mesopotamia area.

Both prophecies (Jeremiah 25:11 and Jeremiah 29:10) are in regards to the 70 years FOR BABYLON. This is clearly confirmed by history 609 BC to 539 BC = 70 years.

 

[claninja]

The church would make Israel jealous, but there is still yet to come that nation that will make her angry time.
Babylon will rise again and anger Israel. God will at the end of that time -rise to avenge the blood of His servants.
When will God stop Iraq's land from harming Jerusalem?
When in Rev. 18 -she is to come out -Come out of her My people - that ye receive not of her plagues.
When as in Deuteronomy 32 and Daniel 12 - her power is gone. It tells that then God will have mercy. When is the mercy time in Revelation?7th trumpet - when the ark is seen in heaven by John for the first time
It would have had the mercy seat on it.

I provided Romans 11 to show that the church/gentiles are the foolish nation used to make Israel jealous. Can you provide me with scripture to show that it will be another nation after the church that will make Israel Jealous? Maybe this would help me see your view better.

 

[claninja]

Babylon will rise again and anger Israel. God will at the end of that time -rise to avenge the blood of His servants.

Why would Babylon rise again if the stone not made with human hands destroyed the statue (Babylon, Medes-Persia, Greece, Rome) and set up an everlasting kingdom?

God did avenge his servants in 70 AD. This is addressed in the parable of the wicked tenants (Matthew 21:33-45) and marriage feast (Matthew 22:1-14). Where the kingdom of God would be taken from Israel and given to a nation bearing fruit (church). Israel is the one who persecuted the prophets. Jesus says this throughout Matthew 23. He also states they will be punished for this.

When as in Deuteronomy 32 and Daniel 12 - her power is gone. It tells that then God will have mercy.

The power of the holy people is gone. Jew and Gentile are now equal. There is mercy on all through Christ.

 

[claninja]

Why did Gabriel even come to Daniel in Daniel 9? That is answer the key to understanding the message he gave to Daniel. Starting back at Daniel 9:1, what happened?
The kingdom of Babylon has fallen to the Medes. Daniel has been reading prophecy by Jeremiah and saw this part as to 70 years. This means we need to go back to Jeremiah's writings and find the ones that deal with 70 years. Jeremiah 29:10 and Jeremiah 25:11-12. Knowing these two prophecies, Daniel will now begin to supplicate over when is the rest of the time of a Babylonian king going to happen. Daniel supplicates, not just at the start of the chapter, but later too - over the holy site and the holy city. So, Gabriel gets commanded to go to Daniel - fly swiftly. When the angel gets to Daniel he will help him understand those particular things. He tells him that he came - due to his supplications. At the beginning of Daniel's supplications -the angel was given the commandment to go to him. The holy angel tells Daniel that the 70 weeks prophecy is to finish the transgression. We know then that something has started and it will be completed during the 70 weeks section of this message. 70 weeks are determined -to finish
This would make the last week as to when it would get finished. There is a transgression that began back in the days of Daniel, but will take the final week of the determined 70 weeks to end it. Just like is noted in Daniel 9:27 ....desolate -till the consummation
/as in till the transgression under Babylon that began in Daniel's day as to Jeremiah 25:11-12 ends.

Gabriel shows too how the holy city that they will rebuild after the captivity and that holy temple will not be the one that the 70th week king of Babylon will desolate. Therefore we were to know that the holy city would again be rebuilt before the final week could ever start. This part as to the prior coming desolation of Jerusalem is also - determined. But this determined time is not counted as bringing Jeremiah 25:11 to pass.

70 week are determined upon thy people
to finish
7 weeks - the wall is built - the street
plus - 62 more weeks - and the Messiah dies for the sins of others -as He has none

-----now enters the prophecy as to that rebuilt city will be destroyed - in a determined time
but not counting as the final needed week of desolation.
-unto the end of the war -desolations are determined

This shows that the end of Daniel 9 shows two future sections of determined time.
70 weeks - and before the final week - a war that destroys the city and the sanctuary -as to unto the end of that war/Rome/Titus - determined
unto the end of the war - desolations are determined
Yet, there will still be the final coming 70th week of the determined 70 weeks of desolation.

Again, the difference we are seeing is the GAP. I lead toward there being no gap and the prophecy was 490 consecutive years and already fulfilled. You are saying there is a gap and the prophecy is actually 2000+ years and not yet fulfilled.

70 week are determined upon thy people
to finish
7 weeks - the wall is built - the street
plus - 62 more weeks - and the Messiah dies for the sins of others -as He has none

This depends on the translation that you are using. For example, the KJV,ESV, RSV, and YLT put it this way:
70 weeks are determined upon thy people.....

7 weeks-from the word going forth of the word to restore Jerusalem until an anointed prince
62 weeks-Length of time that is required for Jerusalem to built again
**after 62 weeks, the anointed is cut off and no more. and the city and sanctuary are destroyed.
1 week-a covenant is strengthened and half way through it, the sacrifice is stopped and then destruction of Jerusalem occurs at the end of the week.

So if there are gaps, then we can make this prophecy fit any way we want. If there are no gaps then it has to be a time of 490 consecutive years.

 

[claninja]

Why did Gabriel even come to Daniel in Daniel 9? That is answer the key to understanding the message he gave to Daniel. Starting back at Daniel 9:1, what happened?
The kingdom of Babylon has fallen to the Medes. Daniel has been reading prophecy by Jeremiah and saw this part as to 70 years. This means we need to go back to Jeremiah's writings and find the ones that deal with 70 years. Jeremiah 29:10 and Jeremiah 25:11-12. Knowing these two prophecies, Daniel will now begin to supplicate over when is the rest of the time of a Babylonian king going to happen. Daniel supplicates, not just at the start of the chapter, but later too - over the holy site and the holy city. So, Gabriel gets commanded to go to Daniel - fly swiftly. When the angel gets to Daniel he will help him understand those particular things. He tells him that he came - due to his supplications. At the beginning of Daniel's supplications -the angel was given the commandment to go to him. The holy angel tells Daniel that the 70 weeks prophecy is to finish the transgression. We know then that something has started and it will be completed during the 70 weeks section of this message. 70 weeks are determined -to finish
This would make the last week as to when it would get finished. There is a transgression that began back in the days of Daniel, but will take the final week of the determined 70 weeks to end it. Just like is noted in Daniel 9:27 ....desolate -till the consummation
/as in till the transgression under Babylon that began in Daniel's day as to Jeremiah 25:11-12 ends.

Gabriel shows too how the holy city that they will rebuild after the captivity and that holy temple will not be the one that the 70th week king of Babylon will desolate. Therefore we were to know that the holy city would again be rebuilt before the final week could ever start. This part as to the prior coming desolation of Jerusalem is also - determined. But this determined time is not counted as bringing Jeremiah 25:11 to pass.

70 week are determined upon thy people
to finish
7 weeks - the wall is built - the street
plus - 62 more weeks - and the Messiah dies for the sins of others -as He has none

-----now enters the prophecy as to that rebuilt city will be destroyed - in a determined time
but not counting as the final needed week of desolation.
-unto the end of the war -desolations are determined

This shows that the end of Daniel 9 shows two future sections of determined time.
70 weeks - and before the final week - a war that destroys the city and the sanctuary -as to unto the end of that war/Rome/Titus - determined
unto the end of the war - desolations are determined
Yet, there will still be the final coming 70th week of the determined 70 weeks of desolation.

If you have not read it already, I recommend reading the Jewish wars by Josephus.

Just an interesting tidbit from his book:
Josephus states that what really started the Jewish-Roman war was when the High priest Eleazar ceased the sacrifices for gentiles and Caesar. This occurred half way through 66AD, which was about 3.5 years before the temple was destroyed.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[claninja]

The rock that destroys the statue is clearly the kingdom of God.
Daniel 2:44
And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever; 45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold.

Mark 9:1
And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

The kingdom of God came within the time of Jesus' audience.

So basically you are saying that because the rock has not destroyed the statue, God has not set up his kingdom yet, and Christ is ruling over nothing yet.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[claninja]

Deuteronomy 32:21 is about two situations to come.
make Israel - jealous - the church is here
make Israel angry - the foolish nation will rise to do that
At the end of that foolish nation against Israel time -God will avenge His people.

This is Hebrew parallelism, which is commonly used throughout the Bible. The foolish nation to anger and foolish nation to make jealous are the same nation.

These are not 2 different situations, they are the same; read Romans 9-11. This entire section is about the stumbling of Israel and the promise to the gentiles, which is prophesied in the OT.

 

[claninja]

When God sets up His kingdom -Israel won't be
letting Jordan have dominion over the holy site in Jerusalem.

So you don't think Christ is reigning yet? So apparently Christ lied to his audience in Mark 9:1

 

[claninja]

Antiochus III fought a battle in the west. He did not end up as - not found. He went back to his land, ruled longer-then headed east to plunder pagan stuff. When he was
plundering a pagan temple with his troops-they were killed by a mob.
Antiochus III died -murdered in the east.
This will not fit for Daniel 11 and also the Bible shows that someone murdered was found - lest he that findeth me slay me.

I'd have to disagree with this interpretation. When someone is not found, that can mean death.

 

[xpower]

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