UNDER THE LAW!

[Saint Steven]

there’s not some mysterious teaching going on here - He’s just talking to a culture which has heard these commandments, and expounding on them... it’s not that deep.

It's common to you. It was mind-blowing to them.

Matthew 7:28-29
When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

 

[Saint Steven]

It's two different words.

That's what I have been saying all along.

 

[HARK!]

Peter was referring to the Torah then. Ha! -- Here's my question:
Why do you try to test God by putting the yoke of the Torah on the necks of Gentiles?

Acts 15:10
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

I'm going to release my Acts 15 study soon. Until then you'll just have to read it for comprehension on your own. Again there is a debate between the Talmud party and the Torah party. Peter belonged to the Torah party. Peter was speaking against the Talmud party. The yoke is the Talmud.

 

[Dkh587]

That's four of the six. Where are the other two?

Matthew 5:31
It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement

Deuteronomy 24:1
When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

————

Matthew 5:33
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto Yahweh thine oaths

Deuteronomy 23:21-23
When thou shalt vow a vow unto the Yahweh thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for Yahweh thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.
But if thou shalt forbear to vow, it shall be no sin in thee.
That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto Yahweh thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

————

Matthew 5:38
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth

Leviticus 24:19-20
And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.

 

[Saint Steven]

I'm going to release my Acts 15 study soon. Until then you'll just have to read it for comprehension on your own. Again there is a debate between the Talmud party and the Torah party. Peter belonged to the Torah party. Peter was speaking against the Talmud party. The yoke is the Talmud.

Peter said the yoke was on the ancestors. Torah!

Saint Steven said: ↑
Peter was referring to the Torah then. Ha! -- Here's my question:
Why do you try to test God by putting the yoke of the Torah on the necks of Gentiles?

Acts 15:10
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

 

[HARK!]

That's what I have been saying all along.

I didn't realize you were having a discussion with me in the context of false doctrine.

Messiah followed and taught YHWH's law. Therefore Yahshua's law is YHWH's law. That was the context in which I spoke.

 

[Saint Steven]

Matthew 5:31
It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement

Deuteronomy 24:1
When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

————

Matthew 5:33
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto Yahweh thine oaths

Deuteronomy 23:21-23
When thou shalt vow a vow unto the Yahweh thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for Yahweh thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.
But if thou shalt forbear to vow, it shall be no sin in thee.
That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto Yahweh thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

————

Matthew 5:38
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth

Leviticus 24:19-20
And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.

Good. Thanks.
Which ones are the law?
Which ones aren't?

 

[Dkh587]

No. It is very specific to these few verses.
As was already stated. The Apostle differentiates it from, "the law" and "Christ's law".

Romans 7:22
For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;

Romans 7:25
Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Romans 8:7
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

1 Corinthians 9:21
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.

Depending on the translation, it’s either translated as “God’s law”, or the “law of God”. It’s the same thing... it’s an interchangeable way of referring to the same thing...

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Dkh587]

Good. Thanks.
Which ones are the law?
Which ones aren't?

They are all from the law of God

 

[Saint Steven]

I didn't realize you were having a discussion with me in the context of false doctrine.

Messiah followed and taught YHWH's law. Therefore Yahshua's law is YHWH's law. That was the context in which I spoke.

Those terms are unbiblical. (confusing the facts) And I disagree with your claims.

 

[Saint Steven]

Depending on the translation, it’s either translated as “God’s law”, or the “law of God”. It’s the same thing... it’s an interchangeable way of referring to the same thing...

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

What does that solve?

 

[Dkh587]

Do I have any questions? Just one. Were the ancestors under Torah or Talmud?

Acts 15:10
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

Moses taught Israel that God’s commandments were not too hard, nor too far away.. John taught that God’s commandments were not burdensome...

the yoke being spoken of is self-righteousness, and self justification. You can’t bear that yoke because you can’t justify yourself in your own way before God(Judaism/Pharisee religion)


It’s through faith and obedience to God’s commandments that people are made righteous with God.

 

[Dkh587]

What does that solve?

It just shows that your argument is fallacious.

 

[not under law]

Moses taught Israel that God’s commandments were not too hard, nor too far away.. John taught that God’s commandments were not burdensome...

the yoke being spoken of is self-righteousness, and self justification. You can’t bear that yoke because you can’t justify yourself in your own way before God(Judaism/Pharisee religion)


It’s through faith and obedience to God’s commandments that people are made righteous with God.

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. rom3:21

 

[HARK!]

Peter said the yoke was on the ancestors. Torah!

Nonsense go read Acts 15. If you still can't understand the context; read the Galatians link I posted for you. if you still don't get it; you'll have to wait for me to release my Acts 15 study, to break it down for you.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


(CLV) Dt 30:10
when you hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim to observe His instructions and His statutes, the ones written in this scroll of the law, once you return to Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul.

(CLV) Dt 30:11
For this instruction that I am enjoining on you today, it is neither too difficult for you, nor is it too far off.

(CLV) Dt 30:12
It is neither in the heavens for you to say: Who shall ascend to the heavens for us and take it for us and announce it to us that we may do it?

(CLV) Dt 30:13
Nor is it across the sea for you to say: Who shall cross across the sea for us and take it for us and announce it to us that we may do it?

(CLV) Dt 30:14
For the word is exceedingly near to you, in your mouth and in your heart, to do it.

(CLV) Dt 30:15
See! I have set before you today life and good, death and evil.

(CLV) Dt 30:16
If you should hearken to the instructions of Yahweh your Elohim that I am enjoining on you today, to love Yahweh your Elohim, to walk in His ways and to observe His instructions, His statutes and His ordinances, then you will live and multiply, and Yahweh your Elohim will bless you in the land where you are entering to tenant it.

 

[Saint Steven]

They are all from the law of God

Divorce is from God?
Hate your enemy is from God?

 

[Saint Steven]

Nonsense go read Acts 15. If you still can't understand the context; read the Galatians link I posted for you. if you still don't get it; you'll have to with for me to release my Acts 15 study, to break it down for you.

I have zero interest in your expanded presuppositions.
Peter said the Torah was a yoke by your own admission. Yet you carry on. Give it up.

The debate was between law and grace, not Torah and Talmud.

Acts 15:9-11
He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 

[HARK!]

I have zero interest in your expanded presuppositions.
Peter said the Torah was a yoke by your own admission. Yet you carry on. Give it up.

LOL!

Apparently you have difficulty grasping it; even when I break it down for you.

The Yoke is the Talmud. The Jerusalem Council weren't speaking against YHWH's word, and the Teachings of Yahshua. Keep trying!

 

[Saint Steven]

LOL!

Apparently you have difficulty grasping it; even when I break it down for you.

The Yoke is the Talmud. The Jerusalem Council weren't speaking against YHWH's word, and the Teachings of Yahshua. Keep trying!

The law of Moses; Torah or Talmud?

Acts 15:5
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

 

[Dkh587]

Divorce is from God?
Hate your enemy is from God?

first off, God divorced Israel...

I forgot the last one in Matthew 5...

Matthew 5:43
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy

Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

I honestly don’t know of any place it flat out says “hate your enemies”... but, according to Solomon, there is a time for everything...

Ecclesiastes 1:8
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

———

Proverbs 25:21-22
If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: for thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and Yahweh shall reward thee.

Exodus 23:4-5
f thou meet thine enemy's ox or his donkey going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again.
If thou see the donkey of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him.