UNDER THE LAW!

[not under law]

I’ve never seen a pagan keep the 7th day holy.. have you? Ever had one tell you “I have this urge in my head to not work on the 7th day of the week, which btw starts at Friday on sunset. I’m not sure where this is coming from tho???”

The text is quite explicit:
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,

 

[HARK!]

btw starts at Friday on sunset. I

Shabbat shalom

 

[Dkh587]

Shabbat shalom

Shabbat shalom

 

[HARK!]

The text is quite explicit:
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts

Do you understand that Paul is talking about Pagans here? I just want clarity.

 

[Dkh587]

The text is quite explicit:
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,

What are the requirements of the law?

 

[not under law]

Do you understand that Paul is talking about Pagans here? I just want clarity.

So pagans have the law written on their hearts and obey it?

 

[not under law]

What are the requirements of the law?

Love God and love your neighbour

 

[Dkh587]

Love God and love your neighbour

Gentiles don’t have God’s law, thus they cannot love God, and they perish(Romans 2:12)

 

[HARK!]

Really? So pagans have the law written on their hearts and obey it?

Really!

It's YHWH's will that all be saved. Unfortunately, they don't seek him out. Unfortunately they pick and choose which laws they will obey.

That said, I've seen some Atheists who act more righteous than some who call themselves Christians.

What is believing?

 

[not under law]

Really!

It's YHWH's will that all be saved. Unfortunately, they don't seek him out. Unfortunately they pick and choose which laws they will obey.

That said, I've seen some Atheists who act more righteous than some who call themselves Christians.

What is believing?

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

 

[HARK!]

Love God and love your neighbour

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


From decalogue
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.



(CLV) Dt 5:10
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

(CLV) Ne 1:5
I said: Oh, Yahweh Elohim of the heavens, the great and fear-inspiring El, Who is keeping the covenant and the benignity with those loving Him and observing His instructions,

(CLV) Dn 9:4
I prayed indeed to Yahweh my Eloah. I confessed and said intensely, Oh, Yahweh, the great and fear inspiring El, Keeper of the covenant and the benignity for those loving Him and keeping His instructions:

(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and iwith your whole comprehension.

(CLV) Jn 14:21
He who has My precepts and is keeping them, he it is who is loving Me. Now he who is loving Me will be loved by My Father, and I shall be loving him and shall be disclosing Myself to him."

(CLV) 1Jn 5:2
In this we know that we are loving the children of God, whenever we may be loving God and may be doing His precepts.

(CLV) 2Jn 1:6
And this is love, that we may be walking according to His precepts. This is the precept, according as you hear from the beginning, that you may be walking in it;

 

[not under law]

Gentiles don’t have God’s law, thus they cannot love God, and they perish(Romans 2:12)

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,

 

[not under law]

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


From decalogue
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.



(CLV) Dt 5:10
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

(CLV) Ne 1:5
I said: Oh, Yahweh Elohim of the heavens, the great and fear-inspiring El, Who is keeping the covenant and the benignity with those loving Him and observing His instructions,

(CLV) Dn 9:4
I prayed indeed to Yahweh my Eloah. I confessed and said intensely, Oh, Yahweh, the great and fear inspiring El, Keeper of the covenant and the benignity for those loving Him and keeping His instructions:

(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and iwith your whole comprehension.

(CLV) Jn 14:21
He who has My precepts and is keeping them, he it is who is loving Me. Now he who is loving Me will be loved by My Father, and I shall be loving him and shall be disclosing Myself to him."

(CLV) 1Jn 5:2
In this we know that we are loving the children of God, whenever we may be loving God and may be doing His precepts.

(CLV) 2Jn 1:6
And this is love, that we may be walking according to His precepts. This is the precept, according as you hear from the beginning, that you may be walking in it;

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
So pagans know torah as the requirements of the law are written on their hearts?

 

[Dkh587]

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,

Can you please show me a pagan that keeps the Sabbath? We can narrow this down even further.

the law says no other gods but Yahweh. Gentiles worship millions of different gods. I thought they were doing the requirements of the law???

worshipping idols is a sin - and it’s not loving God. That’s not in line with the requirements of the law.

 

[HARK!]

So pagans have the law written on their hearts and obey it?

They obey some of it. They are not in relationship with Yahshua, nor YHWH. Those in relationship will grow in their obedience through faith.

 

[Der Alte]

You're not telling me anything that I haven't already investigated.
Two different words, with two different meanings. That's why Paul chose two different words.
Like I said; I covered this here: Paul on the Law: 1 Corinthians 9
P.S. En means in, most of the time; but never under.

I have studied both Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level. I rarely say anything I can't back up.

ἔννομος, ον (s. νόμος; Pind., Aeschyl. et al.; ins, pap, Sir prol. ln. 14; Philo, Abr. 242, Poster. Cai. 176; Jos., Ant. 19, 302; SibOr 3, 246; Just., D. 47, 4 ἔ. πολιτείαν; Ath., R. 70, 23 al.) pert. to being in accordance with law, legal, lawful. ἔ. ἐκκλησία Ac 19:39 could, acc. to the context, mean a legally convened assembly in contrast to a mob, but certain features of the word’s usage (Lucian, Deor. Conc. 14; SIG 672, 37 [II B.C.] ἐν τᾷ ἐννόμῳ ἐκκλησίᾳ) suggest the interpr. regular assembly in contrast to one called for a special occasion (s. IBM III/2, p. 141; WRamsay, Pauline and Other Studies3 n.d. [1906] 203–15).—Subject to law, obedient to law (Aelian, VH 2, 22 v.l.): ἔ. Χριστοῦ subject to the jurisdiction of Christ 1 Cor 9:21 as opposed to Mosaic jurisdiction (B-D-F §182, 3; Rob. 504—Proclus on Pla., Crat. p. 93, 5 P., the contrast ἔ. and ἔκνομος). The entire vs. can be rendered: ‘I identified as one outside Mosaic jurisdiction with those outside it; not, of course, being outside God’s jurisdiction, but inside Christ’s’. Fr. a purely linguistic point of view one can also transl. ἔννομος true to the law, upright, in the right (so ἔ. in Aeschyl., Suppl. 404; Pla., Rep. 4, 424e) acc. to the judgment of Christ.—CDodd, Studia Paulina (JdeZwaan Festschr.) ’53, 96–110.—M-M. EDNT. TW.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., pp. 337–338). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.​

 

[not under law]

They obey some of it. They are not in relationship with Yahshua, nor YHWH. Those in relationship will grow in their obedience through faith.

So pagans know torah for the requirements of the law are written on their hearts?

 

[Dkh587]

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
So pagans know torah as the requirements of the law are written on their hearts?

Pagans don’t have the Torah, which is why they perish. If they were keeping the Torah, they wouldn’t perish.

 

[not under law]

Can you please show me a pagan that keeps the Sabbath? We can narrow this down even further.

the law says no other gods but Yahweh. Gentiles worship millions of different gods. I thought they were doing the requirements of the law???

worshipping idols is a sin - and it’s not loving God. That’s not in line with the requirements of the law.

There is what is plainly written in scripture, and your understanding, and the two seem to conflict

 

[not under law]

Pagans don’t have the Torah, which is why they perish. If they were keeping the Torah, they wouldn’t perish.

But the requirements of the law are written in the hearts of those Paul mentioned