Two Goats

[HannibalFlavius]

Issachar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Catawba people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

via The Greek Age of Bronze - Sea Peoples
and
Asher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I could go on forever..

with thousands of connections in words and more.
check our Moabite stone for a older configuration of Israel.. it didn't always look like it does now.


have fun!

I just have to leave you with the thought that God doesn't lie .. he said he would scatter them to the whole world .. well he did just that in ships , heck it appears they were some of the sea traders...

Tell me NannaNae, what covenant do you think you have with God?


This is the only covenant, and it is not a covenant for the gentile and Jew, it is a covenant for Judah and Israel.



Christ's Sacrifice Once for All
…15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, 16"THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says, 17"AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."…


Jeremiah 31:31
"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.




Jeremiah 31:33
"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.


Israel had become Gentiles before they were ever taken out of the land of Naphtali and Zebulun.

But God gave them many promises that he would redeem them back into Israel after they had become gentiles, and this redemption is a redemption through Marriage and that's what Jesus did, and the promises are for the gentile of Israel.

What other promises are there concerning the Northern Israel?


Here is God promising Israel that he will marry them to redeem them back into Israel, and then they become one with Judah and appoint David as their leader.


In that day,” declares the Lord,

“you will call me ‘my husband’;

you will no longer call me ‘my master. ’

17I will remove the names of the Baals from her lips;

no longer will their names be invoked.

18In that day I will make a covenant for them

with the beasts of the field, the birds in the sky

and the creatures that move along the ground.

Bow and sword and battle

I will abolish from the land,

so that all may lie down in safety.

19I will betroth you to me forever;

I will betroth you in righteousness and justice,

in love and compassion.

20I will betroth you in faithfulness,

and you will acknowledge the Lord.


21“In that day I will respond,”

declares the Lord—

“I will respond to the skies,

and they will respond to the earth;

22and the earth will respond to the grain,

the new wine and the olive oil,

and they will respond to Jezreel.

23I will plant her for myself in the land;

I will show my love to the one I called ‘Not my loved one. ’

I will say to those called ‘Not my people, ’ ‘You are my people’;

and they will say, ‘You are my God.’ ”




Here is another scripture how the people of the land of Naphtali and Zebulun have seen a great light.

Unto Us a Child is Born
1But there will be no more gloom for her{The ten lost tribes} who was in anguish; in earlier times He treated the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali with contempt, but later on He shall make it glorious, by the way of the sea, on the other side of Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles. 2The people who walk in darkness Will see a great light; Those who live in a dark land, The light will shine on them. 3You shall multiply the nation



You keep showing things of the lost tribes, but all the promises gentiles claim are not for gentiles, they are for gentiles of Israel to be redeemed back into Israel.

The only way for you to fall under a new covenant made for Judah and Israel is if you are a gentile of Israel.

This scripture is quoted from Jeremiah because it is showing the Messiah making Israel and Judah one man.


Hebrews 10
Christ's Sacrifice Once for All
…15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, 16"THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says, 17"AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."…



Gentiles continually quote promises that were spoken to Israel in the land of Joseph claiming that they themselves have this new covenant for Judah and Israel, But the only way that could be true, is if you are counted as a Gentile of the lost tribes.


I keep seeing people quote the promises of Israel, but they never get a clue of what and who the promises are made for.


If you have a covenant at all, it is under the new covenant promised to Israel and Judah, and this covenant cannot be rejected as Christians reject it, it cannot be realized in people who are separated from Judah.

The promise and covenant was made in order to make Judah and Israel one, and this can only happen when people repent for calling the Torah a strange thing, they repent for hating their co heir Judah, and they return with respect to Torah just as the prophecies say about Israel.

But quoting the scripture of a new covenant is nothing if the gentile does not return.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Christ's Sacrifice Once for All

Hebrews

…15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, 16"THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says, 17"AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."…



I am always at a loss for words with many people over these scriptures. Paul is quoting Jeremiah about the New Covenant for Judah and Israel, I never understand where people are coming from when they think the new covenant is for Gentiles and Judah instead of Israel and Judah. Paul didn't make up a New covenant, it is the same covenant Jeremiah speaks of, the same one Hosea speaks of, the same one Isaiah speaks of


Jeremiah 31.
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: 33 but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.



This New covenant has guidelines that have to be followed, and that is the reason why the prophets show the day of Jezreel happening in the last days also.


Gentiles broke the brotherhood and rejected the covenant.

Christianity did EXACTLY what Jeroboam did, and the sins of Jeroboam is what wiped out ten tribes.


What did Jeroboam do that caused God to say,'' you are not my people{gentiles} and I will not be your God?''


Then Jeroboam built Shechem in mount Ephraim, and dwelt therein; and went out from thence, and built Penuel. 26 And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David: 27 if this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the Lord at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah.

Jeroboam changed the feast of the 7th month{sukkot/Christ birth}
Jeroboam rejected Jerusalem and picked his own Holy city. Jeroboam took on Pagan feast days and traditions, Jeroboam appointed his own priests and invented his own worship system.

That is exactly what Christianity did, and it is exactly why there is no longer a brotherhood, of two men having been made one man, and two heirs.


Christianity has become lost just as Israel became lost for the EXACT same reason, and until Christianity returns, it will be that way.


This is the exact reason why the day of Jezreel happens again in the last days, Because the brotherhood was broken when Gentiles rejected the covenant and the people.


But it is going to happen, They will return and their idols will be left behind, they will leave all their involvement with the feast days and traditions of other Gods, and they return.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Not to cause anymore MG melodrama but if you say you can show vikings and chinese could be Israelites then say vikings came to Amrica or else leave it as asians across the Bering Straits then are you not agreeing that her people are desendanta of Israel

Just saying your aurgument seems muddy.

Vikings and Chinese are not Israelites. The methods used to "prove" native Americans are Israelites could be used to prove anyone, any people, any nation, is Israelite.
I happened to use Chinese and Viking as examples, since they have a relation to the topic of America: "the Chinese" (or more accurately some unspecificed north-east Asian group) are the forefathers of the native Americans, and the Vikings actually (unlike the Israelites) visited America.

Hence, Asians and Vikings have more history, more connection, to America than the Israelites have.

As a jocular aside, I said that since any people can be "proven" Israelite, it should be no problem to admit the actual truth that the native Americans are descended from Asians, since "the Asians can be proven Israelite" anyway.

I don't believe that the Asians or their descendants in the American continents are Israelites, nor do I believe the Vikings are Israelite. But if you can "prove" the native Americans are Israelites, I am sure I can equally satisfactorily "prove" the Vikings, or Cossacks, or the Maori, or Australian Aboriginees, or the Maasai, or any people in the world, are Israelite too.

 

[rick357]

Vikings and Chinese are not Israelites. The methods used to "prove" native Americans are Israelites could be used to prove anyone, any people, any nation, is Israelite.
I happened to use Chinese and Viking as examples, since they have a relation to the topic of America: "the Chinese" (or more accurately some unspecificed north-east Asian group) are the forefathers of the native Americans, and the Vikings actually (unlike the Israelites) visited America.

Hence, Asians and Vikings have more history, more connection, to America than the Israelites have.

As a jocular aside, I said that since any people can be "proven" Israelite, it should be no problem to admit the actual truth that the native Americans are descended from Asians, since "the Asians can be proven Israelite" anyway.

I don't believe that the Asians or their descendants in the American continents are Israelites, nor do I believe the Vikings are Israelite. But if you can "prove" the native Americans are Israelites, I am sure I can equally satisfactorily "prove" the Vikings, or Cossacks, or the Maori, or Australian Aboriginees, or the Maasai, or any people in the world, are Israelite too.

Of course I see what your saying but is this a point of contention. you can not prove she is not a desendant of Israel so why argue an unsolvable discussion that at its end can only hurt feelings.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Of course I see what your saying but is this a point of contention. you can not prove she is not a desendant of Israel so why argue an unsolvable discussion that at its end can only hurt feelings.

Yes indeed - and SINCE we cannot prove native Americans are Israelite, why be invested in it?
Why be offended about the fact that one cannot prove one is descended from lost tribes?
I don't hear Maoris or Danes claim to be lost tribes, or getting offended about the fact that they are not.

By the way, one should be able to discuss something as objective and uncontroversial as the origin of native Americans, without choosing to be offended.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Of course I see what your saying but is this a point of contention. you can not prove she is not a desendant of Israel so why argue an unsolvable discussion that at its end can only hurt feelings.

It isn't entirely unsolvable.


God reserved 7000 people in Israel, not Judah.

Paul was of Benjamin of the Northern kingdom, and he was one of those 7000 men.

He quotes the scripture about those 7000 men being reserved and those 7000 have absolutely nothing to do with Judah.

Elijah was sent to the Northern kingdom, not Judah.

Elijah called fire down from heaven in front of Israel, not Judah.

The spirit of Elijah went out to call people to come and join Judah, and the call goes out to those people who have rejected the Torah, and who have separated from Judah. This is why Elijah is the friend of a Jew, preparing brides to marry a Jew in order top redeem them back into Israel.

Israel became gentile before God called them Gentile, and he reserved 7000 in each generation and those 7000 had become ,'' Judah.'' when Jesus arrived on the scene.


Once blood is lost, it cannot miraculously change back, once it is done, it is done.

Those people became Gentiles with gentile blood and what happens when you do this?

You take a Jew and marry him to a gentile woman and what are his children?

They have children who marry Gentiles, are those children Jews?

You take a Jewish woman and she marries a gentile and they have children and their children marry gentiles and have children.

Are they still Jews?

You scatter a people who had already become gentiles, who had already stopped living as Jews, who had called God's word a strange thing, and you scatter them to the 4 corners of the Earth for 2700 years, do you think that Jewish or Israeli blood is still there?

Jews can become non Jews in a couple generation and we are talking about 2700 years.

700 years before Christ, and besides these 7000 in each generation, there are no others, and God said that if they were even to get pregnant with one, he would kill the child in the womb.



The reason that the spirit of Elijah has to return again, is because the gentiles who had been redeemed through a marriage of Jesus, they went back and called the Torah a strange thing and separated from Judah, doing the same thing that Israel had done.

Here are the exact 7000 men that God reserved just after God told Elijah about them, and this has nothing to do with Judah.

Ahab Defeats Ben-Hadad
…14Ahab said, "By whom?" So he said, "Thus says the LORD, 'By the young men of the rulers of the provinces.'" Then he said, "Who shall begin the battle?" And he answered, "You." 15Then he mustered the young men of the rulers of the provinces, and there were 232; and after them he mustered all the people, even all the sons of Israel, 7,000.



Here are those same 7000 men.


The Witnesses Killed and Raised

Revelation.
…12And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." Then they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them. 13And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14The second woe is past; behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

 

[rick357]

Yet YHWH knows their blood for he marks 12000of each tribe at a set time

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Yet YHWH knows their blood for he marks 12000of each tribe at a set time

How?

What do you mean?

God is not tracking people because they had a relative of Israel 2700 years ago, You cannot fix blood Rick, you can't change it back.

Did Jesus bring a New covenant Rick?


That covenant was brought for Israel and Judah, and if it has been fulfilled in Jesus, then there is no looking for something that has already been found.

Just as my earlier posts said, all those promises made to the people of the land of Joseph are quoted as being fulfilled in the New Testament.

Do you understand that?

Romans 9

Here is Paul explaining that Jesus had come to fulfill the promise spoken to ISRAEL{Northern Israel}.

Had they not been found then, the scripture could have not been quoted.

in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea,


“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’

and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”

“And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’

there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”




The New Testament cannot quote promises made to the lost ten tribes unless they had been fulfilled.

Those promises are not just quoted for no reason, they are quoted to show fulfillment in that you have been adopted and grafted through an open door made for the gentiles of Israel.

That New Covenant scripture of Jesus bringing a new covenant could not be quoted unless it really happened, and if it has happened, there is no looking for Israel elsewhere.

Are you a Gentile who has now become the son of the living God?

If you say that, you are in fact saying that you have become the son of God through the promise made to Joseph's sons, and Joseph's sons were adopted into Israel.

If you quote any scripture about being a bride of Christ, you are quoting the promises spoken to Northern Israel that they would be redeemed through a marriage of redemption into Israel.

'' Those who sat in darkness in the land of the northern kingdom have seen a great light.''

That scripture is to the northern kingdom of Israel.


The promise does not exclude any person who had a relative 2700 years ago, it in fact includes the whole world under it's promise.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

If God was going to look at somebody having an ancestor who was Israel 2700 years ago because of blood, there would be no need for a marriage of redemption into Israel.

That's exactly what Hosea shows, that God would come and marry them, and this marriage redeems them into Israel through a marriage, not through blood.
.

That's what Jesus did for Gentiles, if it were by blood then there would be no need for a marriage.

Again, Here are Israel's promise of a Marriage to redeem them into Israel by marrying a Jew.


And I will betroth thee unto me for ever;
yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness,
and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.

20
I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:
and thou shalt know the Lord.



21
And it shall come to pass in that day,
I will hear, saith the Lord,
I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;

22
and the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil;
and they shall hear Jezreel.

23
And I will sow her unto me in the earth;
and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy;
and I will say to them which were not my people,
Thou art my people{ISRAEL};
and they shall say, Thou art my God.

 

[rick357]

How?

What do you mean?

God is not tracking people because they had a relative of Israel 2700 years ago, You cannot fix blood Rick, you can't change it back.

Did Jesus bring a New covenant Rick?

That covenant was brought for Israel and Judah, and if it has been fulfilled in Jesus, then there is no looking for something that has already been found.

Just as my earlier posts said, all those promises made to the people of the land of Joseph are quoted as being fulfilled in the New Testament.

Do you understand that?

Romans 9

Here is Paul explaining that Jesus had come to fulfill the promise spoken to ISRAEL{Northern Israel}.

Had they not been found then, the scripture could have not been quoted.

in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea,

“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’

and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”

“And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’

there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”

The New Testament cannot quote promises made to the lost ten tribes unless they had been fulfilled.

Those promises are not just quoted for no reason, they are quoted to show fulfillment in that you have been adopted and grafted through an open door made for the gentiles of Israel.

That New Covenant scripture of Jesus bringing a new covenant could not be quoted unless it really happened, and if it has happened, there is no looking for Israel elsewhere.

Are you a Gentile who has now become the son of the living God?

If you say that, you are in fact saying that you have become the son of God through the promise made to Joseph's sons, and Joseph's sons were adopted into Israel.

If you quote any scripture about being a bride of Christ, you are quoting the promises spoken to Northern Israel that they would be redeemed through a marriage of redemption into Israel.

'' Those who sat in darkness in the land of the northern kingdom have seen a great light.''

That scripture is to the northern kingdom of Israel.

The promise does not exclude any person who had a relative 2700 years ago, it in fact includes the whole world under it's promise.

I dont believe there are tribes of Israel hidden around the world...but dont see the benifit of the arguing against the point

 

[Hoshiyya]

Yet YHWH knows their blood for he marks 12000of each tribe at a set time

Yes but the point is they forgot the Hebrew religion, language, culture etc, and hence there is no good reason to waste time looking for linguistic, religious or cultural similarities between the Hebrew and Nahuatl or between the Hebrew and Swedish, or the Hebrew and Anmatyerre, etc etc.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I dont believe there are tribes of Israel hidden around the world...but dont see the benifit of the arguing against the point

There is a very HUGE reason, do you know what it is?


It is so that Gentiles would realize that they are in fact adopted through an open door made for the lost ten tribes, and they have to do what was said and demanded of the return of those people.

Unless they return to the Torah, to the ways of God and become one with the Jews, THERE IS NO COVENANT.


UNLESS you can find a way into that new covenant, THERE IS NO OTHER COVENANT.

You agree to be the bride of Jesus through a promise made to the ten lost tribes, but just because a person says,'' Jesus, Jesus,'' doesn't mean anything without a return to the worship system of God, and the ways of God.


Gentiles really need to find out who they are, because unless they do what was demanded of the return of Ephraim, there is no covenant, there is no hope.

Judah and Ephraim have to become one, it is their covenant, gentiles have no other covenant.

If gentiles are looking for somebody else to become coheirs, and one with Judah, they tend to think that they are married to Jesus without doing what is demanded of the bride.

The biggest part of this is gentiles turning away from Pagan feast days and the involvement of pagan traditions, they have to return, and somebody needs to tell them that they have to return.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Revelation 14 is showing virgins giving birth on firstfruits, and those 144,000 are the ONLY ONES who obtained the resurrection, nobody else.

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.




1 Corinthians 15

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.




If you are not, and cannot be counted among those 144,000, then you have no chance at all to obtain the reward of first resurrection, and if you are looking for the finding of ten tribes, it not only means that you cannot obtain the resurrection, it also means that you have no covenant.

But who is Israel?

Who are the sons of Isaac?


Is it through blood or belief?

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Rick, are you of Israel?


That is the question, if you say,'' yes.'' then I will ask you how.

If you say,'' No.''

Then I would say you are studying the bible for no reason, if you are not of Israel, then you have a problem.

It is said that there is no difference between Jew and gentile, but is this true?

How?

There is no difference if one has been adopted or grafted, but I have good questions for the person who claims to be grafted or adopted.

How were you grafted, how were you adopted?

Paul tells us how, and he does this by quoting the promises spoken to the return of the ten tribes.

'' Where it was said to them, '' You are not my people,'' in that place, it will be said to them,'' You are the sons of the living God.''

Rick, do you think this promise applies to you?

That is a promise to the ten lost tribes, if you are not one of them, then it cannot apply to you.

 

[visionary]

I understand that the two goats are identical and that is why they put a red cord on one of them.

 

[rick357]

Rick, are you of Israel?

That is the question, if you say,'' yes.'' then I will ask you how.

If you say,'' No.''

Then I would say you are studying the bible for no reason, if you are not of Israel, then you have a problem.

It is said that there is no difference between Jew and gentile, but is this true?

How?

There is no difference if one has been adopted or grafted, but I have good questions for the person who claims to be grafted or adopted.

How were you grafted, how were you adopted?

Paul tells us how, and he does this by quoting the promises spoken to the return of the ten tribes.

'' Where it was said to them, '' You are not my people,'' in that place, it will be said to them,'' You are the sons of the living God.''

Rick, do you think this promise applies to you?

That is a promise to the ten lost tribes, if you are not one of them, then it cannot apply to you.

My life is not in blood but by spirit....there is the seed of Abraham in me and has made himself one with me.....his life was lived with his blood. Redemtion was purchased by blood but resurection occured after blood and by Spirit

 

[Hoshiyya]

I understand that the two goats are identical and that is why they put a red cord on one of them.

You said that in the first sentence of the OP.
And yeah, goats are goats. They're not completely identical since they will be of different size and color most likely, and so you could tell them apart, but yeah, they're relatively similar.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I understand that the two goats are identical and that is why they put a red cord on one of them.

That's why Barrabas was named such.

Jesus, the son of the father.

That's what Barrabas means

To say Barrabas is to say,'' Jesus, son of the father.''

 

[Hoshiyya]

That's why Barrabas was named such.

Jesus, the son of the father.

That's what Barrabas means

To say Barrabas is to say,'' Jesus, son of the father.''

Great point.
And indeed, the people were basically asked to choose between Yeshua and the 'Son of the Father', an interesting choice.

 

[rick357]

Thread hasnt been active recently so maybe no body sees this but here goes....follow me in this principal...in Heaven is truth...on the earth we are given teachings about this truth....the truth from heaven is then manifested to us on the earth.
We are taught about day of atonement...two goats that are the same...minister of YHWH lays his hand on the first and slays him as a sin sacrifice. the other has hands laid on him and the sin is transferred upon him and he carries it into the wilderness until he too is killed.
now the scripture tells us that Yeshua is the lamb slain before the foundations of the earth in Revelations 13: 8 and 1st Peter 1: 20 we are told you always ordained Messiah before the foundations of the earth.
when one is ordained are not hands laid upon them... when the word was manifested in the flesh did not John the Baptist say behold the Lamb of God takes away the sins of the world. so is he not the scapegoat who carries away our sins as he walks through the wilderness of fallen earth and takes them away in his own death.

I have brung this post forward for consideration as barrabis to me is not a sacrifice wich bore our sin since he was sin as to the choice between the two that point seems valide but on day of atonement it was not a choice between two but both were sacrificed to YHWH