Two Goats

[rick357]

When the two identical goats were brought before the temple and the lot was cast as to which role each would play a red wool string was attached to the scapegoat. The priest tied half a piece of red wool string to the goats horn and had the goat given to a ready man, who led it to a particular remote spot in the wilderness. The other half of the red wool string was kept at the temple. When the fit man took it away into the wilderness, he would keep the red wool string In the instant the goat died, the red cloth tied to its horns turned white, as well as the remaining half that remained at the Temple. It was at that moment that the cloth turned white that the sins of Israel were considered cleansed.

There is a story about the red not turning white from the time of Yeshua's death to the time of the destruction of the temple. We read in the Jerusalem Talmud:
Babylonian Talmud states

Thread hasnt been active recently so maybe no body sees this but here goes....follow me in this principal...in Heaven is truth...on the earth we are given teachings about this truth....the truth from heaven is then manifested to us on the earth.
We are taught about day of atonement...two goats that are the same...minister of YHWH lays his hand on the first and slays him as a sin sacrifice. the other has hands laid on him and the sin is transferred upon him and he carries it into the wilderness until he too is killed.
now the scripture tells us that Yeshua is the lamb slain before the foundations of the earth in Revelations 13: 8 and 1st Peter 1: 20 we are told you always ordained Messiah before the foundations of the earth.
when one is ordained are not hands laid upon them... when the word was manifested in the flesh did not John the Baptist say behold the Lamb of God takes away the sins of the world. so is he not the scapegoat who carries away our sins as he walks through the wilderness of fallen earth and takes them away in his own death.

 

[daq]

Thread hasnt been active recently so maybe no body sees this but here goes....follow me in this principal...in Heaven is truth...on the earth we are given teachings about this truth....the truth from heaven is then manifested to us on the earth.
We are taught about day of atonement...two goats that are the same...minister of YHWH lays his hand on the first and slays him as a sin sacrifice. the other has hands laid on him and the sin is transferred upon him and he carries it into the wilderness until he too is killed.
now the scripture tells us that Yeshua is the lamb slain before the foundations of the earth in Revelations 13: 8 and 1st Peter 1: 20 we are told you always ordained Messiah before the foundations of the earth.
when one is ordained are not hands laid upon them... when the word was manifested in the flesh did not John the Baptist say behold the Lamb of God takes away the sins of the world. so is he not the scapegoat who carries away our sins as he walks through the wilderness of fallen earth and takes them away in his own death.

so is he not the scapegoat who carries away our sins as he walks through the wilderness of fallen earth and takes them away in his own death.

No . . . because:

Exodus 28:36-38 KJV
36. And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
37. And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be.
38. And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the Lord.

The Priest bears the iniquity of the holy things for the congregation but the only way he can do so lawfully is with the crown upon his forehead with the holy inscription, (whether literal in meaning, in the literal Mishkan or the literal Temple which came later, or whether supernal in meaning). There is absolutely no way the priest, any priest, bears the iniquity upon his head or in/upon his forehead. Every priest who bore the sins of the congregation did so only in a temporary fashion and likewise only did so upon his neck like a "burden" or upon his shoulders. Also the reason this bearing of the sins was temporary is because the whole purpose was for the priest to "take up", "lift off", (nasa') or "bear up" the sins from the congregation so as to place them upon the head of the goat to/for Azazel, (which goes into destruction). No priest was ever required to take the sins of the congregation upon his own head or forehead.

From the same passage as the above:

Exodus 28:9-12 KJV
9. And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel:
10. Six of their names on one stone, and the other six names of the rest on the other stone, according to their birth.
11. With the work of an engraver in stone, like the engravings of a signet, shalt thou engrave the two stones with the names of the children of Israel: thou shalt make them to be set in ouches of gold.
12. And thou shalt put the two stones upon the shoulders of the ephod for stones of memorial unto the children of Israel: and Aaron shall bear their names before the Lord upon his two shoulders for a memorial.

The twelve names upon the two stones borne upon the shoulders of the Priest are likewise related to the Priest both bearing up the sins of the people, (to be placed upon the head of the goat that is sent away) and making intercession for the whole congregation.

 

[rick357]

No . . . because:

Exodus 28:36-38 KJV
36. And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
37. And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be.
38. And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the Lord.

The Priest bears the iniquity of the holy things for the congregation but the only way he can do so lawfully is with the crown upon his forehead with the holy inscription, (whether literal in meaning, in the literal Mishkan or the literal Temple which came later, or whether supernal in meaning). There is absolutely no way the priest, any priest, bears the iniquity upon his head or in/upon his forehead. Every priest who bore the sins of the congregation did so only in a temporary fashion and likewise only did so upon his neck like a "burden" or upon his shoulders. Also the reason this bearing of the sins was temporary is because the whole purpose was for the priest to "take up", "lift off", (nasa') or "bear up" the sins from the congregation so as to place them upon the head of the goat to/for Azazel, (which goes into destruction). No priest was ever required to take the sins of the congregation upon his own head or forehead.

From the same passage as the above:

Exodus 28:9-12 KJV
9. And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel:
10. Six of their names on one stone, and the other six names of the rest on the other stone, according to their birth.
11. With the work of an engraver in stone, like the engravings of a signet, shalt thou engrave the two stones with the names of the children of Israel: thou shalt make them to be set in ouches of gold.
12. And thou shalt put the two stones upon the shoulders of the ephod for stones of memorial unto the children of Israel: and Aaron shall bear their names before the Lord upon his two shoulders for a memorial.

The twelve names upon the two stones borne upon the shoulders of the Priest are likewise related to the Priest both bearing up the sins of the people, (to be placed upon the head of the goat that is sent away) and making intercession for the whole congregation.

I agree Yeshua is the true High Priest and the true priesthood...he is also the true prophet true king true temple true feast days true sabbath true word true man true servent true master true sacrifice....all things written in the scriptures find their true living manifestation in Him.making each teaching about him...so if we are taught the things a priest should be we are taught an aspect of who he is if we are taught what a proper sacrifice is we are taught anouther aspect of who he is....but he is one so they are seperated that we may understand who he is in total
In this way the teaching of.Father Son and Holy Spirit in NT teach aspects of how YHWH has brought about redemption of men...but we should understand these are not three individuls for YHWH is one his breath and his word are not seperate from him or each other
So he is Aaron but he is also the goats and since they are the same the aspect of what we are taught about the one can not be in opposition to what we ar taught about the other....if we see them as such our understanding can not mature and be made perfect. The holiness placed on Aaron is to remain and be one with him...the sin placed on a lamb is never a part of him and is only carried into death.
My thought was the first sacrifice is slain before the foundation of the earth...then the second is brought out of the temple and holy city and lead into the wilderness with the burden of carrying away our sins until he according to tradition is killed by men.

 

[Shimshon]

all things written in the scriptures find their true living manifestation in Him.making each teaching about him...so if we are taught the things a priest (we) should be we are taught an aspect of who he is if we are taught what a proper sacrifice is we are taught anouther aspect of who he is....but he is one so they are seperated that we may understand who he is in total

In this way the teaching of.Father Son and Holy Spirit in NT teach aspects of how YHWH has brought about redemption of men...but we should understand these are not three individuls for YHWH is one his breath and his word are not seperate from him or each other

Nice way of putting that!

 

[NannaNae]

No . . . because:

Exodus 28:36-38 KJV
36. And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
37. And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be.
38. And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the Lord.

The Priest bears the iniquity of the holy things for the congregation but the only way he can do so lawfully is with the crown upon his forehead with the holy inscription, (whether literal in meaning, in the literal Mishkan or the literal Temple which came later, or whether supernal in meaning). There is absolutely no way the priest, any priest, bears the iniquity upon his head or in/upon his forehead. Every priest who bore the sins of the congregation did so only in a temporary fashion and likewise only did so upon his neck like a "burden" or upon his shoulders. Also the reason this bearing of the sins was temporary is because the whole purpose was for the priest to "take up", "lift off", (nasa') or "bear up" the sins from the congregation so as to place them upon the head of the goat to/for Azazel, (which goes into destruction). No priest was ever required to take the sins of the congregation upon his own head or forehead.

From the same passage as the above:

Exodus 28:9-12 KJV
9. And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel:
10. Six of their names on one stone, and the other six names of the rest on the other stone, according to their birth.
11. With the work of an engraver in stone, like the engravings of a signet, shalt thou engrave the two stones with the names of the children of Israel: thou shalt make them to be set in ouches of gold.
12. And thou shalt put the two stones upon the shoulders of the ephod for stones of memorial unto the children of Israel: and Aaron shall bear their names before the Lord upon his two shoulders for a memorial.

The twelve names upon the two stones borne upon the shoulders of the Priest are likewise related to the Priest both bearing up the sins of the people, (to be placed upon the head of the goat that is sent away) and making intercession for the whole congregation.

yes that is right Aaron bares the burden for God's servants those who rejected him on the mountain! He gave them back to Moses and Aaron ( he calls them " Your People" to Moses , meaning they are not mine). Aaron the one who should have died because of the Golden calf debacle , when everyone else involved did die and he built and named that golden calf....
but Maybe Jesus does/did bare it once for his brothers thus the ones who will go up the mountain and covenant with Him face to face when they are asked and how they are asked too .. Other wise everyone else in any other kind of covenant is a servant probably not a son / brother / sister .
and yes Aaron's (lines ) is responsibility for them . of course no man Except Jesus was created to bare that kind of responsibility.. but Popes and Aarons think they can get r done.. I guess we will see how that works out .

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Hi Hannibal I got some questions for you!

who are all those harlots and daughter of harlots God condemns old and new testament ?
who kill his prophets and his people, who is she?

I another question and a few statements . you said





why is it in your mind that "becoming Israel " also means becoming jewish( the religion) when 10 /12 of the real sons of Israel are now 'Gentiles' for all intents and purposes and have been for2000 and 3000 years .. they are in their minds all Gentiles and are into loosygoosy and snugglywuggly christianity ?



I am just not understanding how when you put 2 / 12th with 10/ 12ths you came up with Judaism as our model for being God's people 'israel' ?


yes judaism has wonderful things to teach is about truth and God holiness prophesy and so much to offer... and that is not to be be underestimated for the next age... but they will/ might be there only to be speaking for the father in the new temple...

but now jesus is and always has been all way more into the loosy goosy stuff he spent 2000 years trying to teach humanity that what that relationship is and isn't and what the harlot of religion is ... and it is that usually kills those people off that learn what he is teaching ...., and why do you want to totally wipe that out in one moment by saying "Israel" is Judaism?

when some kind of knowledgeable hybrid that is 2/12ths Judaism and 10/12 christianity is or will be at least 50/ 50 because we don't know how big those branches were he is combining them together .

so exactly why are you trying to convince the blood thirsty new hooker to join with the old blood thirsty hooker? because the old and the new is just religion and "Good people " doing " GOD's work" For "God".
when even the new world Judaism is probably or maybe only about 2/ 12 of the picture and it is only going on in the temple area so ABBA Father can come play with his kids for awhile...
to prepare us all for meeting him face to face.

let's let the Father build into us what he needs from us .
not the 2/ 12ths Judaism and 10/12 Christianity (Catholicism) and such has brought to this world.. .

every one else there is plain old christians who are willing to drop their lawlessness and paganism ....
and the old blood thirsty harlot and the new blood thirsty harlots of REV are all "GOOD" people all doing what is right to them "to protect God". and how do we know the difference? between the good and the right ?

BOTH of these attempts by men to build something for God has all been a failure to bring about real relationship with the real Jehovah.



Neither of these worked the first time to create right people but only" Good"( from the tree of good and evil) people were/ are who are death and mayhem and mongering their neighbors in the name of GOD ..and death still follows in their path! yes they are at least Good because the evil ones not even mentioned are even worse or worse than worse .

since we know
those that wait upon the lord shall renew their strength , they shall mount up on wings of eagles and run and not grow weary, they shall walk and not faint.......
so what will the new look like in the new world ?

well best I can guess probably 2/10 Judaism's ceremonies and their feasts and temple worship ,( meaning not easter and all that is pagan in the churches..) and way more lawful at a circumcised heart not just flesh type.
then 10 / 12 christian with about 2/10 less loosygoosysnugglewuggly with 0 % flippant lawlessness and paganism swirled into it .


so you will excuse me if I decided to go wait in a cave with other complainers grumblers and debtors.. and wait for David to show up!
because as far as I can tell I don't want to be part of either harlot and I really am not sure what to do anymore until David does do what ONLY David can do , and that is to build Israel the way he wants it .
and it won't be old wine in bloody wineskins .



yes judaism has things to teach to christianity , so teach on.. but stop promoting old whoredom.. christians who ran from the old bloody witch.. and then instead have been dancing with pagans forever. got things to learn !

but when Israel is built it won't look just like Judaism either. it will look at least 50% ( the two sticks) or 2/ 12 christian-ish .. since I don't know which I think it is ..I don't want to be part of any Good harlots anymore..
I will wait for him to do it. is that OK with you ?

Jesus cried over Jerusalem before he died because he couldn't draw them in under his wings and protect them , that is what harlots do us....... to me that is the important issue and always has been . Can he draw you and under his wings. a. so we better start there. nothing else is important!
because there won't be one good bloody harlot in heaven/ his kingdom ..

Christianity was sect of Judaism for over 100 years after Jesus died.


Gentiles completely converted to Judaism, did you know that?


Rome had to find a way to separate the gentile from the Jewish synagogues because the whole world was converting to Judaism, and Rome knew that if it didn't separate and create a new Christianity, that the whole world would revert to Judah, and the law would go forth from Jerusalem.

So Gentiles left Judaism and converted to an entirely different religion.


Now people claim to be of the God of Israel, but they make this claim from an entirely different religion, and it is no different than a Muslim making the same claim from Islam.


If a person converts to a religion, what happens?

He gives up on all his former ways and truly converts.

Gentiles had become one with Jews when they briefly came under the covenant, but they have long since left that brotherhood, and that first conversion into Judaism.

They converted to a different religion, and still claim to be grafted.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Two goats of Yom Kippur.

Barabbas's name appears as bar-Abbas in the Greek texts of the gospels. It is derived ultimately from the Aramaic בר-אבא, Bar-abbâ, "son of the father". Some ancient manuscripts of Matthew 27:16–17 have the full name of Barabbas as "Jesus Barabbas" and this was probably the name as originally written in the text.

Matthew 27

The Crowd Chooses Barabbas

15 Now at the feast the governor was accustomed to release for the crowd any one prisoner whom they wanted. 16 And they had then a notorious prisoner called Barabbas. 17 So when they had gathered, Pilate said to them, “Whom do you want me to release for you: Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?” 18 For he knew that it was out of envy that they had delivered him up. 19 Besides, while he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent word to him, “Have nothing to do with that righteous man, for I have suffered much because of him today in a dream.” 20 Now the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and destroy Jesus. 21 The governor again said to them, “Which of the two do you want me to release for you?” And they said, “Barabbas.” 22 Pilate said to them, “Then what shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?” They all said, “Let him be crucified!” 23 And he said, “Why, what evil has he done?” But they shouted all the more, “Let him be crucified!”

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Passover, Pentecost, Yom Kippur, and the feast of Tabernacles sacrifices all happening on Nissan 14{Passover}

All the sacrifices on a single day.


Ezekiel 45

21 “In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, you shall celebrate the Feast of the Passover, and for seven days unleavened bread shall be eaten. 22 On that day the prince shall provide for himself and all the people of the land a young bull for a sin offering. 23 And on the seven days of the festival he shall provide as a burnt offering to the Lord seven young bulls and seven rams without blemish, on each of the seven days; and a male goat daily for a sin offering. 24 And he shall provide as a grain offering an ephah for each bull, an ephah for each ram, and a hin of oil to each ephah. 25 In the seventh month, on the fifteenth day of the month and for the seven days of the feast, he shall make the same provision for sin offerings, burnt offerings, and grain offerings, and for the oil.

 

[NannaNae]

and saul of tarsis was doing what he was doing without their blessing?

"So Gentiles left Judaism and converted to an entirely different religion."
just different days and different houses and no more synagues and religion which had become all about men and rules and not God. there was no freedom to follow God and be obedient to his leadings. they were killing people who did anything differently then them.

that new religion wasn't just rome..... what god was doing was happening in homes not rome . rome can claim what it will... it might have helped that they left the first churches Jewishness , well what was left of it .. because they were being murdered by the jews.. and the worldly .. I know why they left it.
I mean when they get ugly even in Israel now even a few months ago , they pick up stones even today.. they don't just gossip to destroy each other..

 

[HannibalFlavius]

and saul of tarsis was doing what he was doing without their blessing?

"So Gentiles left Judaism and converted to an entirely different religion."
just different days and different houses and no more synagues and religion which had become all about men and rules and not God. there was no freedom to follow God and be obedient to his leadings. they were killing people who did anything differently then them.

that new religion wasn't just rome..... what god was doing was happening in homes not rome . rome can claim what it will... it might have helped that they left the first churches Jewishness , well what was left of it .. because they were being murdered by the jews.. and the worldly .. I know why they left it.
I mean when they get ugly even in Israel now even a few months ago , they pick up stones even today.. they don't just gossip to destroy each other..

I don't know what you mean about Paul, Paul went around teaching Torah to Gentiles who had converted to Judaism.


It was not just different days, it was a different religion that the gentiles converted to. They called the Torah a strange thing, they became lawless and started teaching lawlessness.

The gentiles did not separate from the Jewish synagogues until 135 a.d. when the great synagogue was burned and it was blamed on Gentiles.

Rome had been trying to separate the gentiles from the Jewish synagogues and this is recorded history in Roman, and in Jewish history.

The first gentiles converted, and many righteous gentiles would only worship Jesus and would only keep his feasts, and these righteous gentiles were often killed for doing so, and after the Jewish war, any gentile keeping the feasts of Jesus had to pay the Jewish tax, and a gentile who followed Jesus in his feasts was then persecuted by Christians who accepted the old Pagan ways.

The gentiles converted to another religion and then they began persecuting and killing any gentile who stayed in the religion of Jesus, and for 2000 years now, Christianity has been separated, broken the brotherhood, and abandoned Israel.

They reject the covenant and act like being in a Pagan religion is no big deal, but it has been a big deal to the millions who have died because of it.

The feasts of Jesus have been used to kill the children of God for 2000 years.

If you kept the feasts of Jesus, then you were persecuted and killed by Christians claiming to be following Jesus when in fact, they had converted right back to their former pagan ways, and now became anti-Semitic, and Christian themselves.

There was no difference between Jew and Gentile at the first, but there was certainly a difference after a couple hundred years.

2 different religions.

 

[NannaNae]

Saul of Tarsus was murdering christian at their bidding.. come on! they were offended and blood was on their hands ... blood of christians and of christ though he forgives and so do we.. ..now you are right it doesn't mean rome was close to right either. but those two aren't and weren't the only game in town.. Jesus has been calling his to him from the corners of the universe forever and that never changed.. both of those were trying to murder them.

"I don't know what you mean about Paul, Paul went around teaching Torah to Gentiles who had converted to Judaism."

no not really.. you might want to re read most of the new testement.. no there is going to be lots and lots and lots of repenting back there for sure for sure for sure . blood is on every human hands to the jews first then to rome and it's
christians.... and the rest worse than others.
in the mean time , those two sticks are 10/ 12 gentile( the lost ( tribes ) are gentile in their beliefs and their ideas. .. most of them won't have a clue they are of any tribes. 10/ 12 will be in a relationship and commitment to him and most of those have ZIP loyalty to Judaism except they love jesus , so it has no loyalty to it , because judaism ( the religion ) was not trust worthy..it was not worthy of anyone trust . as a religion of men which long since lost their connection to Him. he only is life, he only is faithful. .. now he hasn't lost his connection to them though. and I will argue that forever.. just as he hasn't lost his connection to anyone.. remember he is the faithful one here not them and not us .

but you have to hand it to the jews they sure remember their religion and dot and tittle that may not be all bad.. but God is the faithful one here to turn even that little bit to good.
and just 1/12 of Judah in is for clan function of his Kingdom and 1/ 12 Levi have the temple service .. and that is it.. but the whole rest of the world IS Gentiles! stop offending them ok


maybe you can pray about them. please!

maybe history of northern Israel is why it was send them off to gain a new idea.. called relationship..men willing to go up that mountain(sinai ) this time when and how asked..
Levi in the south remained because The heart of the law and temple service in the next age remains the exactly same as it always has been since Moses .
and then Judah only remained as promise of the kingdom / the political realms of the reign of that kingdom of David , so the gate keepers , storehouse keepers the keys and guards and such and such all those things it takes to run a kingdom for a king .. all remains with the clan of Judah who was in the south . these too things are about function and not relationship at all.. just servant stuff..
but everything else of Israel it is changing. the land and the people are all changing and the forms of everything else will not be the same for anyone again . the clans of Israel will all be there but they are all made NEW !
and no one gets in unless they repent of the blood on their hands. you know all those hanging and stoning and ???, crucifying and burning a the stake.. and abortions and mankind is one bloody mess after another .

SO yes Judah sure they know the law but do they know the KING ?
and sure they need to study the laws of the politics of the kingdom of David.. but do they know the law giver ? no !

and levites man have got to study Eze temple. after reading it 50 times I still don't understand the" come in" and " go out" parts.. every kingdom in the past did have courts and judges and just laws of protocol. it is not something I can relate something too so I don't understand it . His kingdom will be going worldwide not just that postage stamp , that city/state of His real country... they got to know just the politics of his kingdom ... they have to study the kingdom of David but do they know the king ? do they know the son of David ? NO they don't !

because that kingdom it will come again . because YES a kingdom can be built in one day!! yes and it will be ! well maybe 3 1/2 years..
The levites yes they must study the temple service as their service, as a servant.. because it will start over in the next kingdom , not now.. the temple of the new Israel will come ! because a temple can be built in one day and it will be ! it won't take 3 1/2 years for that, it is already built.

and surprise most of humanity has died , or will die and wake up bam!! in the resurrection and to his new way... do any of us know our parts ? do we even know what we wake up to? .. probably not.. that is the only confusion that is important. not the religious Rites..

Then will all the nations of the world get their promised lands and promised kingdoms. no more thieving lying politicians.. stinkin lying academics and 'intellectuals "usurping every thing true and every thing good .
but every thing else and every one else is changing. except judah= the kingdom and the Levi = the
laws that only remains of the temple service .. everything else does not remain the same.. but those two things stay the same since ancient times .. and if that is your guys business it is not our duties . the rest of us most will have our own business or duties to take care of so leave us alone with your details and I won't bore you with any of ours details .
.. and New Israel will include every flavor of every kind of nation and people and colors and the NEW Israel will be awesome! and no one is going to make any one uniform.. people from all ages of time... and all tribes and all colors and it will be awesome...

and yes it is going to be confusing !!
but only to the confused !!

so don't be confused !

instead enjoy our awesome God! in all his magnificence and in all his faithfulness!! repent for the sins of our ancestors ! NO they weren't perfect! we are not perfect ! but we follow a perfect God.
it is going to be so awesome!
know your part in his plans..
know your details of your job , they aren't boring to you , but will be to everyone else in the world.
Don't Usurp your King or his kingdom or your brothers or any of his people there .. anyone who picks up a stone and starts screaming blasphemy if ain't blasphemy will be bound and thrown out into the darkness outside ..
just because he is wonderful he will get rid of it !
What a conductor he will prove to be , just wait until you see that symphony !! there is no doubts it is going to impress everyone

 

[daq]

yes that is right Aaron bares the burden for God's servants those who rejected him on the mountain! He gave them back to Moses and Aaron ( he calls them " Your People" to Moses , meaning they are not mine). Aaron the one who should have died because of the Golden calf debacle , when everyone else involved did die and he built and named that golden calf....
but Maybe Jesus does/did bare it once for his brothers thus the ones who will go up the mountain and covenant with Him face to face when they are asked and how they are asked too .. Other wise everyone else in any other kind of covenant is a servant probably not a son / brother / sister .
and yes Aaron's (lines ) is responsibility for them . of course no man Except Jesus was created to bare that kind of responsibility.. but Popes and Aarons think they can get r done.. I guess we will see how that works out .

Whether you intended to do so or not you have essentially encapsulated the entire underlying reasoning for this whole debate-discussion. Mainstream Christianity teaches basically that man cannot ever stop sinning and therefore the "God-Man" Yeshua is the only one who was ever able to do it. While it is true that all have sinned that fact does not negate our responsibility to stop sinning and cut off sin from our own "temples" as even Yeshua himself commanded on more than one occasion:

John 5:14 KJV
14. Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

This man was made whole without the shedding of any blood and told to sin no more.

John 8:10-11 KJV
10. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11. She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

This woman was forgiven, not condemned, and again, without the shedding of any blood, and again, told to go and sin no more. Did Yeshua go around telling people to do something they could not possibly do? If what Yeshua commanded these people to do was realistic then why does mainstream Christianity teach doctrines that nullify his commandments? Therefore, (imo) if one continues sinning then he or she tramples the blood of Messiah who gave his own blood to confirm the covenant(s) and to confirm his Testimony. It is the Testimony of Yeshua, (which was not complete until the final words at Golgotha) which washes us; but only if we understand, trust in, keep, guard, and do all those things.

 

[Shimshon]

Whether you intended to do so or not you have essentially encapsulated the entire underlying reasoning for this whole debate-discussion. Mainstream Christianity teaches basically that man cannot ever stop sinning and therefore the "God-Man" Yeshua is the only one who was ever able to do it. While it is true that all have sinned that fact does not negate our responsibility to stop sinning and cut off sin from our own "temples" as even Yeshua himself commanded on more than one occasion:

John 5:14 KJV
14. Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

This man was made whole without the shedding of any blood and told to sin no more.

John 8:10-11 KJV
10. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11. She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

This woman was forgiven, not condemned, and again, without the shedding of any blood, and again, told to go and sin no more. Did Yeshua go around telling people to do something they could not possibly do? If what Yeshua commanded these people to do was realistic then why does mainstream Christianity teach doctrines that nullify his commandments? Therefore, (imo) if one continues sinning then he or she tramples the blood of Messiah who gave his own blood to confirm the covenant(s) and to confirm his Testimony. It is the Testimony of Yeshua, (which was not complete until the final words at Golgotha) which washes us; but only if we understand, trust in, keep, guard, and do all those things.

I would like to add that though there was no immediate sacrifice (shedding of blood) in those cases it was not as if it was needed as you perceive. I'm thinking of all the faithful who were before 'the cross'. Abraham included. They were found righteous in the sight of God through faith. Not that they had shed blood in their time to redeem themselves in their time. But that they believed in the shed blood of Messiah, and saw his day, and believed. The blood shed for our sins, all peoples sins was shed 'once' and for all. This is why there is no blood needed 'every single time' something is needing forgiveness.

Once, and for all. This makes it so men are not attempting to give glory to God through sacrifices. He was slain from the foundation of the world so that all people would be covered under his blood. Once and for all.

 

[NannaNae]

NIce Shem and Daq..

I think it is about a humbled heart about those people that limp from their struggles with God because they had that kind of faith Shem is talking about . that heart that is just grateful.. not perfect... but perfectly human and submitted to the only faithful and trust worthy One, able to finish his work in us,, both in this age and the next age .

because the 8th day is still a ways away
only then it is vacation time..

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Saul of Tarsus was murdering christian at their bidding.. come on! they were offended and blood was on their hands ... blood of christians and of christ though he forgives and so do we.. ..now you are right it doesn't mean rome was close to right either. but those two aren't and weren't the only game in town.. Jesus has been calling his to him from the corners of the universe forever and that never changed.. both of those were trying to murder them.



no not really.. you might want to re read most of the new testement.. no there is going to be lots and lots and lots of repenting back there for sure for sure for sure . blood is on every human hands to the jews first then to rome and it's
christians.... and the rest worse than others.
in the mean time , those two sticks are 10/ 12 gentile( the lost ( tribes ) are gentile in their beliefs and their ideas. .. most of them won't have a clue they are of any tribes. 10/ 12 will be in a relationship and commitment to him and most of those have ZIP loyalty to Judaism except they love jesus , so it has no loyalty to it , because judaism ( the religion ) was not trust worthy..it was not worthy of anyone trust . as a religion of men which long since lost their connection to Him. he only is life, he only is faithful. .. now he hasn't lost his connection to them though. and I will argue that forever.. just as he hasn't lost his connection to anyone.. remember he is the faithful one here not them and not us .

but you have to hand it to the jews they sure remember their religion and dot and tittle that may not be all bad.. but God is the faithful one here to turn even that little bit to good.
and just 1/12 of Judah in is for clan function of his Kingdom and 1/ 12 Levi have the temple service .. and that is it.. but the whole rest of the world IS Gentiles! stop offending them ok


maybe you can pray about them. please!

maybe history of northern Israel is why it was send them off to gain a new idea.. called relationship..men willing to go up that mountain(sinai ) this time when and how asked..
Levi in the south remained because The heart of the law and temple service in the next age remains the exactly same as it always has been since Moses .
and then Judah only remained as promise of the kingdom / the political realms of the reign of that kingdom of David , so the gate keepers , storehouse keepers the keys and guards and such and such all those things it takes to run a kingdom for a king .. all remains with the clan of Judah who was in the south . these too things are about function and not relationship at all.. just servant stuff..
but everything else of Israel it is changing. the land and the people are all changing and the forms of everything else will not be the same for anyone again . the clans of Israel will all be there but they are all made NEW !
and no one gets in unless they repent of the blood on their hands. you know all those hanging and stoning and ???, crucifying and burning a the stake.. and abortions and mankind is one bloody mess after another .

SO yes Judah sure they know the law but do they know the KING ?
and sure they need to study the laws of the politics of the kingdom of David.. but do they know the law giver ? no !

and levites man have got to study Eze temple. after reading it 50 times I still don't understand the" come in" and " go out" parts.. every kingdom in the past did have courts and judges and just laws of protocol. it is not something I can relate something too so I don't understand it . His kingdom will be going worldwide not just that postage stamp , that city/state of His real country... they got to know just the politics of his kingdom ... they have to study the kingdom of David but do they know the king ? do they know the son of David ? NO they don't !

because that kingdom it will come again . because YES a kingdom can be built in one day!! yes and it will be ! well maybe 3 1/2 years..
The levites yes they must study the temple service as their service, as a servant.. because it will start over in the next kingdom , not now.. the temple of the new Israel will come ! because a temple can be built in one day and it will be ! it won't take 3 1/2 years for that, it is already built.

and surprise most of humanity has died , or will die and wake up bam!! in the resurrection and to his new way... do any of us know our parts ? do we even know what we wake up to? .. probably not.. that is the only confusion that is important. not the religious Rites..

Then will all the nations of the world get their promised lands and promised kingdoms. no more thieving lying politicians.. stinkin lying academics and 'intellectuals "usurping every thing true and every thing good .
but every thing else and every one else is changing. except judah= the kingdom and the Levi = the
laws that only remains of the temple service .. everything else does not remain the same.. but those two things stay the same since ancient times .. and if that is your guys business it is not our duties . the rest of us most will have our own business or duties to take care of so leave us alone with your details and I won't bore you with any of ours details .
.. and New Israel will include every flavor of every kind of nation and people and colors and the NEW Israel will be awesome! and no one is going to make any one uniform.. people from all ages of time... and all tribes and all colors and it will be awesome...

and yes it is going to be confusing !!
but only to the confused !!

so don't be confused !

instead enjoy our awesome God! in all his magnificence and in all his faithfulness!! repent for the sins of our ancestors ! NO they weren't perfect! we are not perfect ! but we follow a perfect God.
it is going to be so awesome!
know your part in his plans..
know your details of your job , they aren't boring to you , but will be to everyone else in the world.
Don't Usurp your King or his kingdom or your brothers or any of his people there .. anyone who picks up a stone and starts screaming blasphemy if ain't blasphemy will be bound and thrown out into the darkness outside ..
just because he is wonderful he will get rid of it !
What a conductor he will prove to be , just wait until you see that symphony !! there is no doubts it is going to impress everyone

Who knows the Messiah, Christians or Jews?

Christians cannot make a claim on the Jewish Messiah, they don't know his ways, on the other hand, Jews have been the only ones who keep the Sabbaths and feasts of the Messiah.


The two became one, and then the gentile left God.

The gentile left the religion they had first converted to.

I believe in Jesus, but I am not a Christian, and I wont have anything to do with the worship of Christians.

If every Jew believed in the Jesus tomorrow, do you suppose the two would become one?

Absolutely not.

The Jews are not going to accept the religion that Christianity converted to.

And it doesn't matter who kills who, it only matters who stays loyal to God in keeping only his ways.

The Jews know more about the Messiah than the Christians, and how could the Christian make such a claim that they know the Messiah better?


What is the promise of Sukkot?

What is the promise of Shemini Atzereth?

Christians don't even know these names and they have no intention of learning them, should the gentile return to things of Messiah, or should the Jew convert to Paganism?

Who knows Messiah better?

The ones who keep the ways of the Messiah.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

stop offending them ok

I never have the intention of offending anyone.

My intention is always the same, to bring two people together, and this cannot be accomplished unless Christians return to Jesus.


I was reading the bible for 35 years and I never knew Christ, I claimed that I knew him but I didn't.

What I knew was the religion I was born in,'' Pentecostal Christianity.''


Imagine my surprise when stumbling upon the things of Jesus which had always been hidden.

Instead of a lawless Jesus, I found a lawful Jesus.

Instead of a Pagan Jesus, I found a Jewish Yeshua.


I returned, I repented, and I converted back to the first Christianity, and I began learning who Jesus was for the first time in my life, and although I have been studying 4 decades, I only learned who Jesus was in the last decade.

There is no doubt that the entire world will repent and revert back to the ways of God, The prophets show these universal truths in many places, that the whole world will know God and return to God, to keep his Pesach, his Sukkot and the ways of the Messiah.

It's not if it happens, it's when.

The when part is when all Christians return.

 

[Shimshon]

I never have the intention of offending anyone.

My intention is always the same, to bring two people together, and this cannot be accomplished unless Christians return to Jesus.

One will not, and can not bring two people together by continually pointing out their faults. If one wants to help another one must come under the person, placing themselves under their position so as to be able to lift them up in help. That rope that people keep swinging with the rock (bible) tied on the end only serves to clobber them and knock them off the walls of their hole they are clinging too. A true godly person would climb down in that hole below where that person is clinging and attempt to support them and get them to start climbing up on their own again. Too many think they are above others and need to pull them up by their bootstraps. Sad thing is when you get them to the top all you have are boots. The person has slipped out and fallen to their death at the bottom.

You can't help a soul while your claiming they are lost and helpless, all the while shinning the light in their face and screaming CAN YOU SEE IT!!! YOU MUST BE BLIND!!!
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[HannibalFlavius]

One will not, and can not bring two people together by continually pointing out their faults. If one wants to help another one must come under the person, placing themselves under their position so as to be able to lift them up in help. That rope that people keep swinging with the rock (bible) tied on the end only serves to clobber them and knock them off the walls of their hole they are clinging too. A true godly person would climb down in that hole below where that person is clinging and attempt to support them and get them to start climbing up on their own again. Too many think they are above others and need to pull them up by their bootstraps. Sad thing is when you get them to the top all you have are boots. The person has slipped out and fallen to their death at the bottom.

You can't help a soul while your claiming they are lost and helpless, all the while shinning the light in their face and screaming CAN YOU SEE IT!!! YOU MUST BE BLIND!!!
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

I don't think I am better than anyone, but I talk to Christians just as if they are Muslim, or Hindu, or any other religion.


The idea that the majority will not admit their conversion to another religion tends to get in the way.


If nobody points this conversion out, then how would they return?


Until Christianity admits that the first church was a sect of Judaism, then we just go along as if nothing has happened, but plenty has happened.

The gentiles converting to another religion where they began persecuting Jews, and anyone who kept the feasts of Jesus is a long history on the blood of countless of people.

This broken brotherhood of Jew and gentile is a real thing unless you want to cancel out history, and this separation used feast days as vehicles to kill anyone who would follow God, should we just forget about all the murders?

Should we go on teaching Jesus in a Babylonian worship system?

Or should we point out that we are told to flee Babylon?

Nobody ever told me about this separation and about all the knowledge that was hidden in the feast days of Jesus, should I not speak up for the ways of God?

But if I do speak up and point out the division, and the separation, I suppose I look like a self righteous fool who points out the sins of others.


I am not pointing out sins, I recognize that there are two different religions and two different Jesus.

People want to say that Jesus is the reason for the season, but I would say,'' NO HE ISN"T''
People say that Christmas and easter is of Jesus, and these things killed countless of people.

The 2000 years of Anti-semitism, and anti Torah is a real thing and the people killed over these things are real, you may want to act that it didn't happen, but it has, I don't choose to forget all the killings.


But before Christians can return and convert to the first religion, they first have to acknowledge that they are in a different religion.

Do you really think the Jesus of Christmas and Easter and lawlessness looks the same as the Yeshua who is lawless and has 7 feast days?

And what will people say if the feast days are realized in our lifetime?

People will say,'' Nobody told me to watch, nobody told me about the visitation days, nobody told me to pray for the rain.''


For 2000 year, 2000 years, 2000 years.

Does that mean anything at all?

That for 2000 years Christianity went after the people who kept the commandments of God.


Awe, lets just let bygones be bygones and let us all go back to Babylon, is that what you think we should do?

How can the Jew and the gentile become one in two different sets of worship systems?

Of course, I know, Let us tell the Jews to accept the ways of Babylon and then we can become one.

And what sort of Messiah has Christianity presented to Jews all these years?


But if I point something out, I am the bad guy.

 

[NannaNae]

"Until Christianity admits that the first church was a sect of Judaism"

it was until stoning of stephen.. then that had a tendency to make people run away screaming..

 

[Hoshiyya]

"Until Christianity admits that the first church was a sect of Judaism"

it was until stoning of stephen.. then that had a tendency to make people run away screaming..

???