Two Goats

[Hoshiyya]

I have brung this post forward for consideration as barrabis to me is not a sacrifice wich bore our sin since he was sin as to the choice between the two that point seems valide but on day of atonement it was not a choice between two but both were sacrificed to YHWH

Only one goat was L'hashem, (to or for or on behalf of YY), the other was L'azazel. Both died.

 

[visionary]

Only one goat was L'hashem, (to or for or on behalf of YY), the other was L'azazel. Both died.

One was sacrificed for sin, and the other was killed because of sin.

 

[Hoshiyya]

One was sacrificed for sin, and the other was killed because of sin.

I was responding to this quote:

"both (goats) were sacrificed to YHWH"

 

[DennisTate]

One was sacrificed for sin, and the other was killed because of sin.

But didn't the custom of throwing the second goat off a cliff develop over time and was not the admonition in Leviticus to release the Azazel goat in the wilderness......… somewhat like ostracism?

 

[rick357]

I was responding to this quote:

"both (goats) were sacrificed to YHWH"

Yes the second goat was for Azazel but no one including the Jews are positive what that means...but I certainly reject him being a sacrifice to a goat diety in the dessert

This rejection is based on the prayer the high priest speaks over this goat

Barabbas was accepted to the people as they choose death over life not sent away.

The sin offering was for the penalty of sin(first goat) the second was to take sin away. Yeshua has done both of these things...He paid the price at his cross...and provided his self by way of the spirit to be one with us....sanctifing us as he lives in and through us bringing his righteous obediance through us as we trust him

Taking away the disobediance of Adam and making us in him living torah

 

[DennisTate]

Yes the second goat was for Azazel but no one including the Jews are positive what that means...but I certainly reject him being a sacrifice to a goat diety in the dessert

This rejection is based on the prayer the high priest speaks over this goat

Barabbas was accepted to the people as they choose death over life not sent away.

The sin offering was for the penalty of sin(first goat) the second was to take sin away. Yeshua has done both of these things...He paid the price at his cross...and provided his self by way of the spirit to be one with us....sanctifing us as he lives in and through us bringing his righteous obediance through us as we trust him

Taking away the disobediance of Adam and making us in him living torah

My theory is that this corresponds to a statement by the Apostle Paul.....

1Corinthians 5:5
"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."



In that particular case the ostracism of that particular Christian who was with his step-mother did result later on in genuine and deep repentance.

Not being a part of the rapture and/or the Marriage Supper of the Lamb........ will also tend to result in genuine repentance as well......


http://www.christianforums.com/t7647325/

Yom Kippur/The Rapture connection?!
This is just a theory and I may be wrong but after being highly skeptical of the idea of a rapture for most of my life I am now open to the idea that the Rapture could fit in extremely well with the ultimate fulfillment of the Fast of Yom Kippur.


I could not get my head around this idea until reading the NDE account of Dr. Richard Eby:

He paused as though the joy of that thought had overwhelmed him for the moment.

"My Father assures me that the time is yet a little while, but very little. Soon he will call those already in paradise to surround me as we descend from this third heaven to the first heaven around the Earth. The souls of all my saints will be instantly clothed in their new resurrection bodies, as will the living saints on Earth who rise to us in the glory cloud! At the sounding trumpet they all receive new bodies and rise to meet us in the air. We return as my body to my throne room with the Father. Now do you understand why I called this place a temporary abiding place? Do you grasp what it will mean to be one with me and the Father in your incorruptible bodies? My book states that I assumed mankind's sin so you "might be made the righteousness of God' in me!"

I can clearly recall how Jesus' voice paused at this moment. He was savoring an anticipation too intense and private to be revealed. Was he pre-living that moment at which he would enjoy the victory which his Father would give him as the eternal reward for his own long-suffering? His own sting of death would be swallowed up, and he would be the omniscient Head of a completed and compliant body for whom he had shed his blood on a terrible cross. He would reign as KING of the Jews after these days of grace. Then his thoughts returned to me.

"My son, when that time has come, my Father will call to me. The applause of the heavenly hosts will be deafening; they too have been awaiting that day, ever since they announced my birth to the shepherds at Bethlehem so long ago. Scoffers will gaze with fear and wonder as my angelic hosts watch me fulfill my promise to my earthly body of believers at my soon return to Earth." (Dr. Richard Eby, near-death.com)

 

[visionary]

Yes the second goat was for Azazel but no one including the Jews are positive what that means...but I certainly reject him being a sacrifice to a goat diety in the dessert

This rejection is based on the prayer the high priest speaks over this goat

Barabbas was accepted to the people as they choose death over life not sent away.

The sin offering was for the penalty of sin(first goat) the second was to take sin away. Yeshua has done both of these things...He paid the price at his cross...and provided his self by way of the spirit to be one with us....sanctifing us as he lives in and through us bringing his righteous obediance through us as we trust him

Taking away the disobediance of Adam and making us in him living torah

Yeshua never took sin upon himself and went out into the wilderness.

 

[DennisTate]

Yeshua never took sin upon himself and went out into the wilderness.

What about those three days when he preached to spirits in prison?

1Pe 3:18
¶For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

[rick357]

Yeshua never took sin upon himself and went out into the wilderness.

The first goat slain before the foundation of the world the second goat the word became flesh and dwelt amoung us...coming into the world that had become barren and unfruitfull to life....behold the lamb of God who taketh away the sins.of the world...surly he has born our griefs and carried our sorrows

In Heaven is truth...in Torah we are taught that truth...until truth has a living manifestation.

The teaching of day of atonement is one is slain for sin.....the truth of heaven says that was done before the foundations
The teaching of the second is he bears the sin of the people and is sent out of YHWH's temple and city into the wilderness to carry them away

 

[DennisTate]

The first goat slain before the foundation of the world the second goat the word became flesh and dwelt amoung us...coming into the world that had become barren and unfruitfull to life....behold the lamb of God who taketh away the sins.of the world...surly he has born our griefs and carried our sorrows

In Heaven is truth...in Torah we are taught that truth...until truth has a living manifestation.

The teaching of day of atonement is one is slain for sin.....the truth of heaven says that was done before the foundations
The teaching of the second is he bears the sin of the people and is sent out of YHWH's temple and city into the wilderness to carry them away

Intriguing!

This seems to fit with a near death experience account by a pastor that I ready just yesterday.

When I was made aware of the fact that no love existed among the demons, I wondered even more about their motivation and zeal. What makes them work so hard? What makes them carry out orders so rapidly? They don't love one another, yet they carry out these orders so quickly and with such zeal that any military organization on Earth would be proud to have such loyal and obedient employees. I wonder if their motivation could have anything to do with the judgment and sentence that awaits them. It seems that since their first rebellion ages ago while in the Third Heaven, they have reached a place in their existence where they can no longer rebel. Whatever it is that motivates them seems to excel in their very being while they, in turn, are expressing their fury upon the flesh. It may just be that the only enjoyment of their entire existence is to create misery for the flesh. Even though I was permitted to go among them and watch them while they worked, many things were not explained fully or made clear to me. Some of the things that I saw in entirely, I was not permitted to retain in my memory. I knew the high order of the demons resented my presence and would have withstood me had I not been under the protection of the Holy Spirit. One of the warring demons came right up to me and leered into my face, but I did not flinch for I was not afraid. I knew it would not be me with whom he would have to contend but, instead, it would be He who brought me, the Holy Spirit. The demons in the middle order seemed to totally ignore me and went about their existence as if I were not there. Those of the lower order seemed to display slight fear of me or fear of the angel that was escorting me, however, the higher order of demons had no fear of me or the angel.

Rev. Howard Pittman

 

[rick357]

Intriguing!

This seems to fit with a near death experience account by a pastor that I ready just yesterday

I m not sure how my post relates to that....but be careful that what you study does not form how you percieve the scripture.....as the scripture must determine how we percieve all other sources

 

[Hoshiyya]

I m not sure how my post relates to that....but be careful that what you study does not form how you percieve the scripture.....as the scripture must determine how we percieve all other sources

well said

 

[NannaNae]

"Hebrew religion, language, culture "

you are saying these things will save us?

ps all goats die!

 

[Hoshiyya]

"Hebrew religion, language, culture "

you are saying these things will save us?

ps all goats die!

Are you quoting/referring to this post of mine ?:

"...the point is they [lost tribes] forgot the Hebrew religion, language, culture etc, and hence there is no good reason to waste time looking for linguistic, religious or cultural similarities between the Hebrew and Nahuatl or between the Hebrew and Swedish, or the Hebrew and Anmatyerre, etc etc."

If so, I don't see how your question relates to my post.
Maybe I misunderstood your quote.

 

[NannaNae]

so the dead man Aaron= his goat dies and
The azalea goat dies..
and every other goat on the planet dies..
what exactly do especially these goats represent to all JUDAH ?

sorry but they can't be our priests until they love all of us and him and take all of us to his temple with them !! .. no more AZAZEL for Judah or Levi !!
there will be no kingdom and no wedding/ marriage of the sticks and to him .. until the goats all die and you all love as much or more, as most of us already love you and stand with you and for you on the battlefield and with money and every other way we possibly can !
but you can't represent US all in his temple and in his kingdom ,, until you love us as much as he does or at least as much as we love you !

All goats must die!

 

[Shimshon]

so the dead man Aaron goat dies and the azalea goat dies..
what exactly do these goats represent to all JUDAH ?

sorry but they can't be our priests until they loves all of us and take all of us to his temple with them !! .. no more AZAZEL for Judah or Levi !!
there will be no kingdom and no wedding/ marriage of the sticks.. until the goats die and you all loves as much or more as most of us already love you and stand with you and for you on the battlefield and with money and every other way we possible can !
but you can't represent US all in his temple and in his kingdom ,, until you love us as much as he does or at least as much as we love you !

All goats die!

How profound.

 

[Hoshiyya]

but you can't represent US all in his temple and in his kingdom ,, until you love us as much as he does or at least as much as we love you !

All goats must die!

OK interesting.

who are these goats?
do you love these goats, or want them to die ?
does not one of the goats (the sa'ir L'Hashem) represent Yeshua ?
are the goats good or bad?

 

[rick357]

OK interesting.

who are these goats?
do you love these goats, or want them to die ?
does not one of the goats (the sa'ir L'Hashem) represent Yeshua ?
are the goats good or bad?

Both goats are Yeshua...and they die as. innocent victims in the place of us so we may live.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Both goats are Yeshua...and they die as. innocent victims in the place of us so we may live.

Bryan Huie demonstrated quite convincingly that the goat for Hashem corresponds symbolically to Yeshua, and that the goat for Azazel represents the antichrist.
But your view could simultaneously be true, as the scriptures are very deep and complex and can have multiple, non-contradictory, meanings.
Who knows.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Yes, Scriptures are putty in our hands.