Trying to accept Christ

[Ruien]

Hello all. Here's my introduction: I was raised without religion. In my early teens I became interested in the idea of God, and I began attending an evangelical church with one of my friends. I enjoyed it because it felt purposeful, but even there I never felt that I had any direct or true connection to God. My family moved to a different state not long after that, and I lost my fleeting connection to religion, and my interest in it as anything other than an anthropological curiosity.

Long story short: I'm now--twenty five years later, and married with two kids--seeking to cultivate a Christian life. I don't know if I'm trying to "become" a Christian, but I am trying to cultivate faith. I want to believe. I find it incredibly hard to believe, I guess because I have no idea how to even start. I know how to study, and I know how to work, but I don't know how to just "believe." But I have a desire, and I think it's an honest desire, so I will attend church services and see if I can get myself on a path to real faith.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

Hello all. Here's my introduction: I was raised without religion. In my early teens I became interested in the idea of God, and I began attending an evangelical church with one of my friends. I enjoyed it because it felt purposeful, even there but I never felt that I had any direct or true connection to God. My family moved to a different state not long after that, and I lost my fleeting connection to religion, and my interest in it as anything other than an anthropological curiosity.

Long story short: I'm now--twenty five years later, and married with two kids--seeking to cultivate a Christian life. I don't know if I'm trying to "become" a Christian, but I am trying to cultivate faith. I want to believe. I find it incredibly hard to believe, I guess because I have no idea how to even start. I know how to study, and I know how to work, but I don't know how to just "believe." But I have a desire, and I think it's an honest desire, so I will attend church services and see if I can get myself on a path to real faith.

Believing is accepting some information as true. There's nothing hard or complicated about it.

 

[Dirk1540]

Hello all. Here's my introduction: I was raised without religion. In my early teens I became interested in the idea of God, and I began attending an evangelical church with one of my friends. I enjoyed it because it felt purposeful, even there but I never felt that I had any direct or true connection to God. My family moved to a different state not long after that, and I lost my fleeting connection to religion, and my interest in it as anything other than an anthropological curiosity.

Long story short: I'm now--twenty five years later, and married with two kids--seeking to cultivate a Christian life. I don't know if I'm trying to "become" a Christian, but I am trying to cultivate faith. I want to believe. I find it incredibly hard to believe, I guess because I have no idea how to even start. I know how to study, and I know how to work, but I don't know how to just "believe." But I have a desire, and I think it's an honest desire, so I will attend church services and see if I can get myself on a path to real faith.

Just a question out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say 'It felt purposeful?' Not sure if you mean that you experienced a 'Jesus High' or if you mean that it just felt like a good idea.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Hello all. Here's my introduction: I was raised without religion. In my early teens I became interested in the idea of God, and I began attending an evangelical church with one of my friends. I enjoyed it because it felt purposeful, even there but I never felt that I had any direct or true connection to God. My family moved to a different state not long after that, and I lost my fleeting connection to religion, and my interest in it as anything other than an anthropological curiosity.

Long story short: I'm now--twenty five years later, and married with two kids--seeking to cultivate a Christian life. I don't know if I'm trying to "become" a Christian, but I am trying to cultivate faith. I want to believe. I find it incredibly hard to believe, I guess because I have no idea how to even start. I know how to study, and I know how to work, but I don't know how to just "believe." But I have a desire, and I think it's an honest desire, so I will attend church services and see if I can get myself on a path to real faith.

Christianity is centered on a cross and an empty tomb. Those things only happened because of one other fact, the incarnation. God came to us. He came to rescue sinners. The place to start is with sin - your sin. If you have no sin (that's not possible) Christianity has nothing to offer you.

Also, you have no need to reach up to God. He has come down to you.

 

[Ruien]

Believing is accepting some information as true. There's nothing hard or complicated about it.

But how do we know what is true? We use our observation and our reason. We examine primary and secondary sources and read multiple interpretations. I know that water is wet. I know that 2+2 = 4. I know that Germany invaded Poland in 1939. I know that it's a bad idea to make a guitar out of balsa wood.

I hope these examples will show that the sort of belief we're talking about is different from "accepting some information as true." Anyway, I am trying to cultivate this other sort of belief.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

But how do we know what is true? We use our observation and our reason. We examine primary and secondary sources and read multiple interpretations. I know that water is wet. I know that 2+2 = 4. I know that Germany invaded Poland in 1939. I know that it's a bad idea to make a guitar out of balsa wood.

I hope these examples will show that the sort of belief we're talking about is different from "accepting some information as true." Anyway, I am trying to cultivate this other sort of belief.

Knowledge and faith are different.

 

[Ruien]

Just a question out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say 'It felt purposeful?' Not sure if you mean that you experienced a 'Jesus High' or if you mean that it just felt like a good idea.

That's a good question. It's kind of hard to describe. I guess it felt like I was doing something meaningful. It felt important. I think I associated Christianity with something very weighty and supremely meaningful. I wanted to be a part of it, so being at church made me feel like I was doing something meaningful. ...But it was a vague, amorphous feeling. It was never intense.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

But how do we know what is true? We use our observation and our reason. We examine primary and secondary sources and read multiple interpretations. I know that water is wet. I know that 2+2 = 4. I know that Germany invaded Poland in 1939. I know that it's a bad idea to make a guitar out of balsa wood.

I hope these examples will show that the sort of belief we're talking about is different from "accepting some information as true." Anyway, I am trying to cultivate this other sort of belief.

Firstly, if you are lost, you can't find yourself. You need a map. That leaves the problem of which map, and without Devine intervention, you will never know the answer to that question.

Secondly, you believe many things without that type of evidence.For example, you believe in such thing as love, so prove to me that "love" exists and what it is made of.

I think you will benefit from this:

 

[Truthfrees]

Hello all. Here's my introduction: I was raised without religion. In my early teens I became interested in the idea of God, and I began attending an evangelical church with one of my friends. I enjoyed it because it felt purposeful, even there but I never felt that I had any direct or true connection to God. My family moved to a different state not long after that, and I lost my fleeting connection to religion, and my interest in it as anything other than an anthropological curiosity.

Long story short: I'm now--twenty five years later, and married with two kids--seeking to cultivate a Christian life. I don't know if I'm trying to "become" a Christian, but I am trying to cultivate faith. I want to believe. I find it incredibly hard to believe, I guess because I have no idea how to even start. I know how to study, and I know how to work, but I don't know how to just "believe." But I have a desire, and I think it's an honest desire, so I will attend church services and see if I can get myself on a path to real faith.

wow

awesome

there is the religious side of christianity - then there is the personal relationship side of christianity

i recommend you prayerfully read the bible starting in the book of John, and then Acts, and then where ever God leads you - and before you read ask God to lead you and teach you what He wants to say to you

iow the Bible really is a book describing how personal God is with us - starting with Adam and Eve - and how God reveals Himself and His love for us to us

Jesus is the exact representation of God - so take note of how He treated the less fortunate - the sick - the lost - the sinners

as you read and think about what the Bible says about Jesus and us - and ask God to "speak" to you through your prayerful reading - faith will grow like a tiny seed sprouting and then growing into a solid plant

faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God - Romans 10:17

finding God comes by seeking Him with sincerity - Jeremiah 29:13, Deuteronomy 4:29

having a transformed life comes by putting God first and He then adds everything else we need - Matthew 6:33

praying for you my dear friend

God Bless you

 

[Small Fish]

Hi Ruien. Yes, I understand where you are coming from. You need more than just theory or psychology, nothing wrong with that. You need something real. The Bible says that faith cometh by hearing, hearing the Word of God. Romans 10:17.

This however do not mean casual hearing or reading of the Word of God. It means to understand the Word of God. Let me give you an example, I ask you "do you hear me?" or "do you see?" In other words, "do you get it?" "Do you understand what I'm saying?"

Other scriptures that use similar wording are:

John 5:24 (KJV)

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Revelation 2:17 (KJV)

17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

What you need are more than the written Word but you need the Living Word. This is what Paul said:

1 Thessalonians 1:5 KJV

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Hope this helps you in your journey ☺

 

[Ruien]

Firstly, if you are lost, you can't find yourself. You need a map. That leaves the problem of which map, and without Devine intervention, you will never know the answer to that question.

Secondly, you believe many things without that type of evidence.For example, you believe in such thing as love, so prove to me that "love" exists and what it is made of.

I think you will benefit from this:

Thank you for your post. The Tim Keller video was interesting. If you have the time and inclination, I'd be interested to read your thoughts on the following considerations about his video. (If you're busy no worries of course. I'm just putting this out there for discussion.)

Disclaimers:

• This covers only the first part of the video--the lecture--not the Q&A. The post is already quite long.
• There are many good points in the video (in particular his point that secularism gives its followers little resources to cope with suffering) and I enjoyed watching it and thinking about it.
• In what follows I am not trying to be contrarian or nit-picky. I just want to discuss interesting issues that seem to be unresolved.
• I also am not trying to argue against Christianity. I'm just trying to better understand these kinds of issues so that I can develop my Christian faith.

Keller argues that atheism and humanism are logically inconsistent: Belief in a material universe (entailing biological evolution, the ultimate death of the sun, a lack of God or anything supernatural, etc.) should lead people to the conclusion that ultimately, nothing matters. Ultimately, people do not matter, and it does not matter how you live your life. Why then (Keller asks) should we be good? He implies that it is inconsistent to believe in a material universe and to have humanistic values.

Well, here's why: You don't have to believe in God to know that you're happy when people are kind to you, and other people are happy when you're kind to them, and we're all happier when we show kindness to others and receive kindness from others. As humans, our natural intelligence and capacity for language allow us to perceive this.

So I don't see that a belief in God is necessary for being a good person. But is it logically or morally inconsistent to be an atheist and to be a good person?

I don't believe so. A person can believe that something is true without endorsing it. A person can observe and acknowledge the facts of the matter regardless of whether he's pleased, disgusted, ambivalent, or unconcerned about those facts. So, anyone can believe in evolution as the survival of the fittest, and acknowledge that those organinisms that outcompete others will have more offspring, without believing that this phenomenon is good or bad. Acknowledging the truth of something does not necessarily lead a person to any moral conclusion about that thing.

To the objection to Christianity that there can't be only one "true" way to God, i.e. one true religion and many false ones (around 20:00), Keller asks how one could know that there isn't only one true religion. I'd say that no one can know this, of course, but there are some good reasons to doubt it: the archeological and historical evidence for religion shows that as social belief systems they sprang up in all societies around the world once they were sufficiently developed--at least chiefdoms. Each of these societies developed their own religion, often very much different from each other. It seems that in each society the religion served its function and took on its particular traits according to the social conventions of that society. It seems odd then that somehow one of these was the "right" religion and all the others false.

 

[“Paisios”]

Hello all. Here's my introduction: I was raised without religion. In my early teens I became interested in the idea of God, and I began attending an evangelical church with one of my friends. I enjoyed it because it felt purposeful, but even there I never felt that I had any direct or true connection to God. My family moved to a different state not long after that, and I lost my fleeting connection to religion, and my interest in it as anything other than an anthropological curiosity.

Long story short: I'm now--twenty five years later, and married with two kids--seeking to cultivate a Christian life. I don't know if I'm trying to "become" a Christian, but I am trying to cultivate faith. I want to believe. I find it incredibly hard to believe, I guess because I have no idea how to even start. I know how to study, and I know how to work, but I don't know how to just "believe." But I have a desire, and I think it's an honest desire, so I will attend church services and see if I can get myself on a path to real faith.

If you are a reader, I would recommend CS Lewis' Mere Christianity, (https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christi...=1502449537&sr=8-1&keywords=Mere+Christianity) as it gives a fairly reasonable apology for Christianity, and was helpful in my walk. And pray. Quietly listen for His Voice, ask for His help to see the truth. And keep asking. I will also pray for you that He may lead you to Himself.

 

[Ruien]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies to my introduction post. I really appreciate your time and your concern. Reading your replies makes me think of one of the most powerful aspects of Christianity for me (admittedly in my current ignorance): a willingness to help. Here I can tell complete strangers about some of my most important feelings and get thoughtful, kind replies. What a joy.

 

[paul1149]

I have no idea how to even start. I know how to study, and I know how to work, but I don't know how to just "believe."

I see two possible paths ahead for you. Both are good, and both might be necessary. The first is to pursue your intellectual questions and find the answers you want. Once they are satisfied, you will be free to move on to faith. The pitfall there is that many get bogged down in intellectual parlor games and never get past them.

The second is more direct. It is an exercise of will. You don't have to, and shouldn't, go beyond anything that you in integrity are capable of, but still, in every man there already is a measure of faith. Tap into that measure, even if it is only as small as a mustard seed. Pray to God something like, "I'm willing to find You if You're there." Focus on that mustard seed of faith and allow it to guide you. If you're sincere about it, it will guide you to greater faith over time.

Both of these can go on at the same time.

 

[Dirk1540]

Thank you for your post. The Tim Keller video was interesting. If you have the time and inclination, I'd be interested to read your thoughts on the following considerations about his video. (If you're busy no worries of course. I'm just putting this out there for discussion.)

Disclaimers:

• This covers only the first part of the video--the lecture--not the Q&A. The post is already quite long.
• There are many good points in the video (in particular his point that secularism gives its followers little resources to cope with suffering) and I enjoyed watching it and thinking about it.
• In what follows I am not trying to be contrarian or nit-picky. I just want to discuss interesting issues that seem to be unresolved.
• I also am not trying to argue against Christianity. I'm just trying to better understand these kinds of issues so that I can develop my Christian faith.

Keller argues that atheism and humanism are logically inconsistent: Belief in a material universe (entailing biological evolution, the ultimate death of the sun, a lack of God or anything supernatural, etc.) should lead people to the conclusion that ultimately, nothing matters. Ultimately, people do not matter, and it does not matter how you live your life. Why then (Keller asks) should we be good? He implies that it is inconsistent to believe in a material universe and to have humanistic values.

Well, here's why: You don't have to believe in God to know that you're happy when people are kind to you, and other people are happy when you're kind to them, and we're all happier when we show kindness to others and receive kindness from others. As humans, our natural intelligence and capacity for language allow us to perceive this.

So I don't see that a belief in God is necessary for being a good person. But is it logically or morally inconsistent to be an atheist and to be a good person?

I don't believe so. A person can believe that something is true without endorsing it. A person can observe and acknowledge the facts of the matter regardless of whether he's pleased, disgusted, ambivalent, or unconcerned about those facts. So, anyone can believe in evolution as the survival of the fittest, and acknowledge that those organinisms that outcompete others will have more offspring, without believing that this phenomenon is good or bad. Acknowledging the truth of something does not necessarily lead a person to any moral conclusion about that thing.

To the objection to Christianity that there can't be only one "true" way to God, i.e. one true religion and many false ones (around 20:00), Keller asks how one could know that there isn't only one true religion. I'd say that no one can know this, of course, but there are some good reasons to doubt it: the archeological and historical evidence for religion shows that as social belief systems they sprang up in all societies around the world once they were sufficiently developed--at least chiefdoms. Each of these societies developed their own religion, often very much different from each other. It seems that in each society the religion served its function and took on its particular traits according to the social conventions of that society. It seems odd then that somehow one of these was the "right" religion and all the others false.

I don't know Keller's work but I just know that I'm not a fan of how this argument gets worded by a lot of people. The argument is basically 'Humans are encoded to thrive' vs 'Humans are encoded for right & wrong.' The argument is that 'Being encoded for right & wrong' makes no evolutionary sense if you look at nature. That altruism makes no evolutionary sense. In the animal kingdom they do indeed strive to assure the survival of their offspring, but can you ever imagine a lion donating some of his food for a starving zebra half way across the world?? Therefore if you can pinpoint this 'Right & Wrong' inclination that takes precedence over the 'Survival of bloodline' inclination that exists in nature, then what you have is this specie that completely breaks the mold and makes no sense in terms of evolution 'Ethics.' The question boils down to what on Earth does right & wrong have to do with survival of the fittest?

I'm a big fan of the 'Third Voice' argument. Let's say that you are going for a jog one night. You are a newly married man, your wife doesn't work, you have a new born baby who needs food & love. So you're jogging along and you see a house on fire, and you hear a dreadful scream. Your first inner voice says 'I should help!' Your second inner voice say 'No way I could die in that fire!' But there is this third voice that tells you that the honorable thing to do is to listen to the 1st voice. Why?? What is that third voice??? The first voice puts the fate of your wife and own baby in jeopardy. Another thing I like is William Lane Craig's insight on this. He talks about these 'Evolutionary instincts' that man supposedly has from his primitive self. But Craig points out that 'Wait a minute, humans are self aware beings of higher consciousness!' Meaning that once we recognize that we are being "Played" by evolution impulses we should realize that the gig is up, and we should no longer comply!!

In other words, let's say you went to a psychology convention one night and you listened to all the experts talk about how you are a product of evolution...and as Craig pointed out, being that you are more wise than a dog 'the gig would be up for you!' You would no longer play the sucker for evolutionary impulse. But hold on...you went to the convention, you learned about your 'Evolution impulses', the gig is now up...but now after all that you go on your jog...and once again you jog past a house on fire...and once again you STILL KNOW that the third voice is correct when it tells you to obey the 1st voice! And suppose that you let another person's baby burn to death. Would you then walk home recalling the convention saying to yourself 'I showed evolution!!' Of course not you would feel horrible!! Well, the question is, why would you be programmed with that 'Horrible' right & wrong feeling when nothing else in nature is?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I'm glad that took the time to watch Kellers lecture. He is very sympathetic to doubt and those who have other issues with Christianity, and I believe that he has intellectually satisfying answers to them all.

Tim was my pastor for about 10 years, and his teaching has helped me immensely.

He implies that it is inconsistent to believe in a material universe and to have humanistic values.

So I don't see that a belief in God is necessary for being a good person. But is it logically or morally inconsistent to be an atheist and to be a good person?

A belief in God is not necessary for people to act in "good" ways; although, an atheist has no substantial way to define what good is. We know a clock is "good" because it does what it's designed to do. It tells us the time accurately. We know what the designer of the clock has in mind when he built it, and if it does what he designed it to do, we may say to him, "You've made a "good" clock".

When we come to humans, we must understand what their purpose is before we may refer to one of them as good. If men were designed for mass murder, then Hitler was a great man. If life is a cosmic accident, then there really is no difference between punching a man in the face or giving him a cheese sandwich. We have no way of defining these acts other than preference, and living strictly by preference leads to totalitarianism, though, as my preferences will at some point conflict with your preferences, and then it's "might makes right".

Following along, I would not have the ability to every say to anyone, You shouldn't do that. I could not object to making men slaves, for example. If one group wants to have slaves, if that's their preference, then who am I to object to it? On what grounds can I say it is morally wrong, because my only argument is one of preference, at the end of the day.

In short, I believe that it is logically inconsistent for a humanist to become morally outraged about anything.

BTW, there are more videos on YT from Keller. I believe his talks about identity are fantastic, and that might be a different angle for you to peer into Christianity.

Best,

JJ

 

[Korean-American Christian]

So I don't see that a belief in God is necessary for being a good person. But is it logically or morally inconsistent to be an atheist and to be a good person?
I don't believe so. It seems odd then that somehow one of these was the "right" religion and all the others false.

My dear brother Ruien, a very warm welcome to CF

A "good," moral person who does not have a relationship with Jesus Christ will be separated from God forever.

I am praying for you, my dear brother

May Jesus Christ show you His incredible love

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hello and welcome to CF. Thank you that testimony. There is this sub board on the "Outreach" board you might want to check out.
I hope you find CF both edifying and helpful toward your goal of bringing Jesus into your life.

Struggles by Non-Christians
An open support forum where Christians can offer support to non-Christians.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hello all. Here's my introduction: I was raised without religion. In my early teens I became interested in the idea of God, and I began attending an evangelical church with one of my friends. I enjoyed it because it felt purposeful, but even there I never felt that I had any direct or true connection to God. My family moved to a different state not long after that, and I lost my fleeting connection to religion, and my interest in it as anything other than an anthropological curiosity.

Long story short: I'm now--twenty five years later, and married with two kids--seeking to cultivate a Christian life. I don't know if I'm trying to "become" a Christian, but I am trying to cultivate faith. I want to believe. I find it incredibly hard to believe, I guess because I have no idea how to even start. I know how to study, and I know how to work, but I don't know how to just "believe." But I have a desire, and I think it's an honest desire, so I will attend church services and see if I can get myself on a path to real faith.

Hi; good to see you; God bless His Word to you and your family. A daily Bible reading habit is a great blessings; good passages to read are John 3.1-16; John 14.1-27 and John's First Epistle, which has a strong theme of assurance of faith in the Son of God.

 

[Ruien]

I don't know Keller's work but I just know that I'm not a fan of how this argument gets worded by a lot of people. The argument is basically 'Humans are encoded to thrive' vs 'Humans are encoded for right & wrong.' The argument is that 'Being encoded for right & wrong' makes no evolutionary sense if you look at nature. That altruism makes no evolutionary sense. In the animal kingdom they do indeed strive to assure the survival of their offspring, but can you ever imagine a lion donating some of his food for a starving zebra half way across the world?? Therefore if you can pinpoint this 'Right & Wrong' inclination that takes precedence over the 'Survival of bloodline' inclination that exists in nature, then what you have is this specie that completely breaks the mold and makes no sense in terms of evolution 'Ethics.' The question boils down to what on Earth does right & wrong have to do with survival of the fittest?

I'm a big fan of the 'Third Voice' argument. Let's say that you are going for a jog one night. You are a newly married man, your wife doesn't work, you have a new born baby who needs food & love. So you're jogging along and you see a house on fire, and you hear a dreadful scream. Your first inner voice says 'I should help!' Your second inner voice say 'No way I could die in that fire!' But there is this third voice that tells you that the honorable thing to do is to listen to the 1st voice. Why?? What is that third voice??? The first voice puts the fate of your wife and own baby in jeopardy. Another thing I like is William Lane Craig's insight on this. He talks about these 'Evolutionary instincts' that man supposedly has from his primitive self. But Craig points out that 'Wait a minute, humans are self aware beings of higher consciousness!' Meaning that once we recognize that we are being "Played" by evolution impulses we should realize that the gig is up, and we should no longer comply!!

In other words, let's say you went to a psychology convention one night and you listened to all the experts talk about how you are a product of evolution...and as Craig pointed out, being that you are more wise than a dog 'the gig would be up for you!' You would no longer play the sucker for evolutionary impulse. But hold on...you went to the convention, you learned about your 'Evolution impulses', the gig is now up...but now after all that you go on your jog...and once again you jog past a house on fire...and once again you STILL KNOW that the third voice is correct when it tells you to obey the 1st voice! And suppose that you let another person's baby burn to death. Would you then walk home recalling the convention saying to yourself 'I showed evolution!!' Of course not you would feel horrible!! Well, the question is, why would you be programmed with that 'Horrible' right & wrong feeling when nothing else in nature is?

I'm glad that took the time to watch Kellers lecture. He is very sympathetic to doubt and those who have other issues with Christianity, and I believe that he has intellectually satisfying answers to them all.

Tim was my pastor for about 10 years, and his teaching has helped me immensely.





A belief in God is not necessary for people to act in "good" ways; although an atheist has no substantial was to define what good is. We know a clock is "good" because it does what it's designed to do. It tells us the time accurately. We know what the designer of the clock has in mind when he built it, and if it does what he designed it to do, we may say to him, "You've made a "good" clock.

When we come to humans, we must understand what their purpose is before we may refer to one of them as good. If men were designed for mass murder, then Hitler was a great man. If life is a cosmic accident, then there really is no difference between punching a man in the face or giving him a cheese sandwich. We have no way of defining these acts other than preference. Living strictly by preference leads to totalitarianism, though, as my preferences with at some point conflict with your preferences, and I would not have the ability to every say to anyone, You shouldn't do that. I could not object to making men slaves, for example. If one group wants to have slaves, if that's their preference, then who am I to object to it?

I believe that it is logical inconsistent for a humanist to become morally outraged about anything.

There are more videos on YT from Keller. I believe his talks about identity are fantastic, and that might be a different angle for you to peer into Christianity.

Thank you for this reply. I'm really happy to read these kinds of ideas. It's so much more interesting than talking about TV shows or sports teams or other trivialities that make up daily conversation.

I think you have a very good point that it is logically inconsistent for an atheist humanist to become morally outraged about something. What is the source of of moral outrage? Human nature. What is the source of human nature? Is it an organic outgrowth of human sentience? Is it universal--not culture-bound? The more I think about it, the more I feel that that these questions lead to the idea of God.