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Trump proposes compromise to end shutdown, Pelosi rejects it.

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by Aldebaran, Jan 19, 2019.

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  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Both sides are wrong for allowing federal workers to go unpaid for this long of time. If it was their own hides on the line, or their own pay on the line and they could not make their own mortgage, they would compromise. Jesus says do unto others as you want done unto yourself. Right now, they are not hearing the words of Jesus and they are being prideful to their own positions and ideas no matter who it hurts. Some might see it that it is good that some suffer so that we can protect the border or not to have a border: But I do not see it that way. Wall or no wall, we need people of our own country to be taken care of before we can keep out the enemy or to allow opportunities for new hard working legal immigrants (that go through the correct steps to immigration).

    Anyways, while I may not agree with the law makers of my country at this moment in time, I can and will respect them as best to my ability and to speak in love towards them (even if I disagree with their ungodly decisions).

    Lets all pray for the president and the democrats to come to a solution soon so as to end the shutdown.
     
  2. CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

    CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN I'm praying for my dad to get well.

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    Or these workers don't make enough to save. Many of these workers had higher paying jobs. Before the decided to work Federal jobs. Trump should know that these worker don't make as much money. And never started this shut down in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  3. CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

    CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN I'm praying for my dad to get well.

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    I'm not sure Trump wants the shutdown to end.
     
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I think if he got his wall, he would do it. But he asking for something that is not as effective for an insanely high price. But he is the president, and it is what he feels is right and I don’t want to speak against him. I have to also see things from his perspective even if I am in disagreement with it. The Bible says not speak evil of your leaders (Acts of the Apostles 23:5).
     
  5. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    I think you're right. The moment the shutdown ends the FBI gets fully funded again, and the news outlets will focus on Mueller's investigation again. As it stands, it's a nice distraction to keep everyone focused on the shutdown and ignore the fact that his campaign colluded with Russia by giving the Russians all of their sensitive internal polling data. There is no innocent explanation for Trump's campaign to be sharing such sensitive information with the Russians during the campaign.
     
  6. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    Or maybe Trump is taking Pelosi and Schumer at their word when they say No Way to building the wall rather than when they say, "Let's open the government first, and THEN we'll negotiate".
     
  7. SarahsKnight

    SarahsKnight Jesus Christ is this Knight's truth. Supporter

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    I may have disagreed quite strongly with you on at least one thing in the distant past, Jason (unless i have you confused with another member with a similar avatar name or something), but on this I must say you have a most respectable view.
     
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    My memory is honed towards memorizing Scripture mostly. So my apologies if I do not recall. But thank you for the kind words. I strive to live my life in honor to the Lord.
     
  9. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    Putting a financial gun to the head of 800,000 federal workers over a wall that he claimed that Mexico would pay for isn't an ethical negotiating tactic, it's fear based terrorism.

    Keep in mind that the various bills that the democratic house passed weeks ago were only *temporary* in terms of time and Trump still has plenty of opportunity, and plenty of room to negotiate in good faith.

    Trump had two years to get his wall funding from a Republican House and Senate and yet he didn't seem to think it was a big enough emergency to shut down the government over it. He was offered many options over the last two years, including 25 billion toward building a wall which involved a path to citizenship for the DACA folks and he simply rejected that option.

    Even building a 40 foot concrete wall from "sea to shining sea" would not and could not resolve even half of the immigration problem because more than 60 percent of illegal immigrants simply overstay their visa, they don't hop a wall or go around the existing walls.

    Trump's border wall would stop less than half of illegal immigration in the U.S.

    The prototype steel "fence" that Trump is now talking about isn't impenetrable and many tunnels have simply been dug under the existing walls.

    Steel prototype for border wall cut through with saw, photo shows
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...nder-us-mexico-border/?utm_term=.b47093f23202

    Five billion won't get a wall built through the rest of the deserts that don't have an existing wall already, and it won't stop the drug problem either since most drugs come through a port of entry. On the other hand, the 1.6 billion increase in border security funding that the House has already approved in the bills they have already passsed would beef up security at the ports of entry and it would have a beneficial effect on the drug smuggling problem.

    This is simply a vanity issue and an ego battle at this point and it has almost nothing to do with the Democrats. Trump created the DACA problem so that he would have around 700,000 pawns to play with, and now he's added another 800,000 federal employee pawns to his game. This isn't about compromise, this is about using fear and intimidation to shove a wall down everyone's throat, a wall that he promised that *Mexico* would pay for, not the US taxpayers.

    Sure the Democrats could cave in, but what kind of precedent does that set for future Presidents if fear and intimidation tactics are rewarded? What happened to Trumps great negotiating skills?

    If Trump Gets a Ransom to End the Shutdown, He’ll Do It Again and Again

    Sorry, but from my vantage point the Democrats have already offered the President many opportunities to 'compromise' and he's completely refused to do so every single time. This isn't a fair negotiation tactic and the country doesn't support it. He'll have a less than a 30 percent approval rating in another couple of weeks at the rate he's going.

    Could the Shutdown Finally Make Trump’s Base Abandon Him?

    Trump and McConnell are going to destroy the entire Republican party soon, and they really don't even care about that issue either. It's just selfishly motivated nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  10. JacobKStarkey

    JacobKStarkey Well-Known Member

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  11. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    My sense is if we give in to Trump's hostage-taking, then we have completely legitimized the 'shutdown' as a bargaining tactic. That would be bad.
     
  12. trunks2k

    trunks2k Contributor

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    This especially. Government shutdowns should be rare and only happen in extreme situations. IMO, in the absence of approval of a budget, the budget for general operations should continue based on the most recent budget. Sure, maybe new projects can't get started or no new capital expenditures can be made, but at least day to day stuff can continue as normal -- and projects that had previous approval can continue unless specifically cancelled.
     
  13. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    Trump has proposed a solution that is to be voted on soon. If the Republicans in the Senate pass it, and then Pelosi and the dems reject it, then it will become known as Pelosi's shutdown because she's the one putting a stop to a solution. The democrats wanted their "blue wave" victory and control of the House. They got it. Now it's time to start using that power for good rather than to play victim.
     
  14. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    Youre basically agreeing with me.

    "Vote our way or govt gets/stays shut".
     
  15. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    So we can assume it's been the Republican shutdown thus far since the Republicans wouldn't even call a vote in the Senate to pass anything?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  16. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    I agree with you with one caveat. In the event of an inability to pass a budget, the President and the Congress should go without pay until and unless they pass a new budget. That would put an end to this nonsense quickly.

    It should again be noted that a wall isn't going to resolve DACA, and it won't resolve the immigration problem either because about 2/3rds of illegal aliens enter our country legally and they simply overstay their visa, they don't hop a fence, so this shutdown is totally and completely pointless. The illegal drugs also typically enter our country at a port of entry, so again, a wall won't fix that problem either.

    Trump is holding 800,000 US citizens hostage simply for a vanity issue, and to keep everyone focused on the shutdown rather than focused on the fact that his campaign handed over sensitive polling data to the Russians and his campaign colluded with the Russians. This shutdown is a complete ruse.
     
  17. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    Not only would it be bad now because Trump would repeat the process over and over again, but future Presidents of both parties would do the same thing. It's bad now, and it's bad for the future too.
     
  18. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    Up to this point, the Trump haters have relished the idea of calling it the Trump shutdown because he said he was willing to shut it down in the beginning. But now that Trump and the Republicans are making proposals to get it open, it would become Pelosi's shutdown if she and the party she leads ends up voting NO, when all it would take is a vote of YES to reopen it. The Democrats now have the majority in the House, and they need to take responsibility for the power they wield there. Using that power to keep the government closed so they can blame it on Trump would not be responsible.
     
  19. SimplyMe

    SimplyMe Senior Veteran

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    The Democrats and Republicans had an agreement to keep the government open, which the White House had indicated would be signed. The bill passed in the Senate with an almost unanimous vote. Then, at the last minute, Trump (egged on by Coulter and other right wing media) decided he needed an additional $5.7 billion in funding and blew up the deal.

    Since the new Congress, the Democrats have passed the original agreement they made with the Republicans, the one that passed almost unanimously in the Senate. The Senate now refuses to approve it. Why should the Democrats be forced to renegotiate now, just because Trump is having a temper tantrum? And why are Republicans giving in to the tantrum -- again, it passed near unanimously previously in the Senate?

    As someone else mentioned, this would be a horrible idea for the Democrats to give in on; as it would set the idea that so long as the President, after negotiating is done, decides he wants to add extra requirements to a spending bill, that Congress will be required to approve of it (or at least renegotiate a deal that was already struck). I suspect, if Trump gets his way, the Republicans will regret setting this "precedent," the next time the Democrats control the White House; much in the same way Democrats now regret changing Senate filibuster rules.
     
  20. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    The relevant questions are why shut down all those departments, and why now? For two years Trump had both a Republican House and Senate to work with, and he didn't seem to believe it was worth shutting down the government to get funding. He even turned down a 25 billion dollar funding bill that included a solution to DACA as well as funding for his wall. He waits until a few days before the Democrats took over the house and *then* he made it a "big deal". Why and why now?

    Did the Senate pass anything today yet? I haven't seen the news. Why didn't they pass something already? The house offered a temporary solution and the Senate wouldn't even vote on it! In fact the House has passed several bills to open several branches of government independently and McConnell hasn't done a single thing with any of those bills in over a month now.

    McConnell has had the ability to vote yes on several bills and he's done absolutely nothing for a month while people can't afford to pay their mortgage.

    They've had that power for *less* time than the Government has been shut down! They've already voted on a number of bills that would have temporarily opened up various parts of the Government whereas the Republican Senate has done absolutely nothing!

    Trump claimed he wanted to shut down the government before Pelosi and the Democrats even took over the house and he closed the government before she even took over as speaker. Give it a rest. This is Trump's fault, pure and simple. It's a ruse too. He had two years to get funding for he wall from a Republican house and Senate and he did nothing. Suddenly it's the fault of the democrats that he shut down the government even before the new congress was sworn in. Please!
     
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