Trump has made my political science students skeptical — of the Constitution

[Pommer]

Silly leftist, you should do the research for yourself.

Because “if you’re not crazy...you’ll come to the exact same conclusion that I did”!

My but political discourse has changed!

 

[Shiloh Raven]

America has been sewing bad seeds since day one. What do you think the Constitution meant to blacks and Native Americans a few hundred years ago?

The United States of America was founded on massive land theft, hundreds of violated treaties with the tribal nations, white supremacy, and racism and discrimination against minorities. There were forced Indian removals, brutal massacres of Native Americans, 89 years of slavery, the Three-Fifths Compromise, and nearly two centuries of denying minorities civil rights and equality to white people.

Article VI of the United States Constitution states: "and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land" and yet the federal government violated every single legal treaty it signed with the tribal nations. Native Americans were either forcibly removed from their land or they were mercilessly slaughtered for their land.

For 148 years, Native Americans were denied citizenship until the American Indian Citizenship Act in 1924. They were also denied religious freedom for 202 years until the American Indian Religious Freedom Act in 1978. Until that law was passed, Native American religious dances were illegal and punishable by imprisonment. For 214 years, the religious sacred sites and burial grounds of Native Americans could be desecrated and tribal artifacts could be taken from those sacred sites without the permission from the tribe until the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act in 1990.

For 89 years in the United States, slavery was legal and black people were believed to be inferior to white people. They were enslaved, beaten and killed because of the color of their skin.​

For 99 years after slavery was abolished, the descendants of the freed slaves were systematically denied civil rights and equality to white people and they were legally segregated from white people until the Civil Rights Movement in 1964. They were denied the right to vote (despite the Thirteenth Amendment) until the Jim Crow Laws were abolished by the Voting Rights Act in 1965.

In America, black people were lynched and hung from trees. They had to sit at the back of the bus and were legally required to give up their seat to a white person. They were not allowed to eat at the same counter as white people in a public restaurant or use the same public restroom as white people or use the same drinking fountain as white people. Black children were not allowed to go to school with white children until its highest court intervened to put an end to segregation in public schools, but it took three years after the landmark Brown v. Board of Education case in 1954 before black children were finally allowed to attend public schools with white children. No more Separate but Equal.

In America, "No Colored" signs, "No Mexicans" signs, "No Indians and dogs" signs, and "Whites Only" signs once dawned public stores and restaurants. And in America today, 242 years after this country was supposedly founded upon freedom, liberty and justice for all, it has been an ongoing battle for LGBT American citizens to obtain rights and equality and it has been an uphill battle for them to fight against religious-based discrimination and prejudice. There are a multitude of civil rights groups and social justice groups that still exist in this country. And despite all of these undeniable historical facts of America's real history, there has been a popular perpetual façade that the United States of America was originally founded upon freedom, liberty and justice for all. It is even believed among some Christians that the United States of America was also founded upon Christian principles as well.

I don't believe in following some Constitution. My Constitution is the bible

And which Bible version and scriptural interpretation of that particular version would be enforced if some form of biblical mandates were implemented into federal law? Would it be Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant? And if Protestant, which Protestant denomination would be the top dog and who gets the ultimate and final decision on which Protestant denomination will be the most favored of them all?

 

[Silmarien]

Are you a Democrat?

The Union being one Big Federation. The Confederate States, multiple federations. Personally I think a Common Wealth would be better where people's can govern as they choose, but cooperate on Military matters. No forced economic union. Is the USA going to forever buy up commodities with reserve currency status.

I am a liberal and center-leftist.

I would be concerned about to what degree a confederation of independent nations that cooperate on military matters would be feasible. Each would have their own interests, and without a joint vision on the way things ought to be run, I can imagine that breaking down into conflict fairly easily.

I do have some lingering concerns regarding federations like the European Union, since I spend a lot of time in Spain and the economic disparities between the northern and southern countries seem like a genuine problem. I don't think that really applies in the United States, though. (I'd say our problem is that we don't have a common goal anymore, and I don't see how liberal democracy can work if there's no agreement on what it ought to be doing.)

 

[hislegacy]

Man. What a parade of disappointment reading these replies.
My tendency would be to agree that his divesting was, at best superficial.

Here his supporters have a GREAT opportunity to provide a detailed rebuttal; A chance to put these liberal commies in their place with a fact based response

I'm not as informed on this as I could be and, while it does smell super fishy, fish tacos smell fishy and I love fish tacos. The same way I like facts. So a chance to convince me Trump took all appropriate steps for divestiture has gone past with Absolutely no convincing information

It's too bad posters complain about liberals attacking Trump and then do an abysmal job convincing others of the facts that support Trump.

How is this:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3404759/DJT-Resignation-Signature-Page-With-Exhibit-a.pdf

Starting at 33:33 for ease of reference

Thank you for this great opportunity, I look forward to your unbiased input.

 

[iluvatar5150]

How is this:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3404759/DJT-Resignation-Signature-Page-With-Exhibit-a.pdf

Starting at 33:33 for ease of reference

Thank you for this great opportunity, I look forward to your unbiased input.

Yeah, about that:

Change To President Trump's Trust Lets Him Tap Business Profits

 

[jkjk]

The United States of America was founded on massive land theft, hundreds of violated treaties with the tribal nations, white supremacy, and racism and discrimination against minorities. There were forced Indian removals, brutal massacres of Native Americans, 89 years of slavery, the Three-Fifths Compromise, and nearly two centuries of denying minorities civil rights and equality to white people.

Article VI of the United States Constitution states: "and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land" and yet the federal government violated every single legal treaty it signed with the tribal nations. Native Americans were either forcibly removed from their land or they were mercilessly slaughtered for their land.

For 148 years, Native Americans were denied citizenship until the American Indian Citizenship Act in 1924. They were also denied religious freedom for 202 years until the American Indian Religious Freedom Act in 1978. Until that law was passed, Native American religious dances were illegal and punishable by imprisonment. For 214 years, the religious sacred sites and burial grounds of Native Americans could be desecrated and tribal artifacts could be taken from those sacred sites without the permission from the tribe until the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act in 1990.

For 89 years in the United States, slavery was legal and black people were believed to be inferior to white people. They were enslaved, beaten and killed because of the color of their skin.​

For 99 years after slavery was abolished, the descendants of the freed slaves were systematically denied civil rights and equality to white people and they were legally segregated from white people until the Civil Rights Movement in 1964. They were denied the right to vote (despite the Thirteenth Amendment) until the Jim Crow Laws were abolished by the Voting Rights Act in 1965.

In America, black people were lynched and hung from trees. They had to sit at the back of the bus and were legally required to give up their seat to a white person. They were not allowed to eat at the same counter as white people in a public restaurant or use the same public restroom as white people or use the same drinking fountain as white people. Black children were not allowed to go to school with white children until its highest court intervened to put an end to segregation in public schools, but it took three years after the landmark Brown v. Board of Education case in 1954 before black children were finally allowed to attend public schools with white children. No more Separate but Equal.

In America, "No Colored" signs, "No Mexicans" signs, "No Indians and dogs" signs, and "Whites Only" signs once dawned public stores and restaurants. And in America today, 242 years after this country was supposedly founded upon freedom, liberty and justice for all, it has been an ongoing battle for LGBT American citizens to obtain rights and equality and it has been an uphill battle for them to fight against religious-based discrimination and prejudice. There are a multitude of civil rights groups and social justice groups that still exist in this country. And despite all of these undeniable historical facts of America's real history, there has been a popular perpetual façade that the United States of America was originally founded upon freedom, liberty and justice for all. It is even believed among some Christians that the United States of America was also founded upon Christian principles as well.

So what you're saying is the Constitution works, and it has successfully provided guiding principals that have allowed the U.S. to incrementally but continuously grow and improve over the past 230 years?

 

[Pommer]

The United States of America was founded on massive land theft, hundreds of violated treaties with the tribal nations, white supremacy, and racism and discrimination against minorities. There were forced Indian removals, brutal massacres of Native Americans, 89 years of slavery, the Three-Fifths Compromise, and nearly two centuries of denying minorities civil rights and equality to white people.

Article VI of the United States Constitution states: "and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land" and yet the federal government violated every single legal treaty it signed with the tribal nations. Native Americans were either forcibly removed from their land or they were mercilessly slaughtered for their land.

For 148 years, Native Americans were denied citizenship until the American Indian Citizenship Act in 1924. They were also denied religious freedom for 202 years until the American Indian Religious Freedom Act in 1978. Until that law was passed, Native American religious dances were illegal and punishable by imprisonment. For 214 years, the religious sacred sites and burial grounds of Native Americans could be desecrated and tribal artifacts could be taken from those sacred sites without the permission from the tribe until the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act in 1990.

For 89 years in the United States, slavery was legal and black people were believed to be inferior to white people. They were enslaved, beaten and killed because of the color of their skin.​

For 99 years after slavery was abolished, the descendants of the freed slaves were systematically denied civil rights and equality to white people and they were legally segregated from white people until the Civil Rights Movement in 1964. They were denied the right to vote (despite the Thirteenth Amendment) until the Jim Crow Laws were abolished by the Voting Rights Act in 1965.

In America, black people were lynched and hung from trees. They had to sit at the back of the bus and were legally required to give up their seat to a white person. They were not allowed to eat at the same counter as white people in a public restaurant or use the same public restroom as white people or use the same drinking fountain as white people. Black children were not allowed to go to school with white children until its highest court intervened to put an end to segregation in public schools, but it took three years after the landmark Brown v. Board of Education case in 1954 before black children were finally allowed to attend public schools with white children. No more Separate but Equal.

In America, "No Colored" signs, "No Mexicans" signs, "No Indians and dogs" signs, and "Whites Only" signs once dawned public stores and restaurants. And in America today, 242 years after this country was supposedly founded upon freedom, liberty and justice for all, it has been an ongoing battle for LGBT American citizens to obtain rights and equality and it has been an uphill battle for them to fight against religious-based discrimination and prejudice. There are a multitude of civil rights groups and social justice groups that still exist in this country. And despite all of these undeniable historical facts of America's real history, there has been a popular perpetual façade that the United States of America was originally founded upon freedom, liberty and justice for all. It is even believed among some Christians that the United States of America was also founded upon Christian principles as well.



And which Bible version and scriptural interpretation of that particular version would be enforced if some form of biblical mandates were implemented into federal law? Would it be Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant? And if Protestant, which Protestant denomination would be the top dog and who gets the ultimate and final decision on which Protestant denomination will be the most favored of them all?

Very well said.
Bravo!

 

[variant]

Honestly, I do think the last few years have shown some pretty glaring weaknesses in the Constitutional system of government.

We haven't yet developed a political system that can overcome all the evils of humanity.

We like the Roman Republic simply made something that worked for a while, but will ultimately be ground to dust when enough people grab ambitiously at the levers of power.

 

[Pommer]

(I'd say our problem is that we don't have a common goal anymore, and I don't see how liberal democracy can work if there's no agreement on what it ought to be doing.)

Exactly so, but it goes even deeper.
There isn’t a firm agreement of what the government is for!

Democrats tend to herd together and assume that this herding is good and should work for all the members of the herd.

Republicans tend to want to leave people alone to be free, but not the freedom they want but the “freedom” they’re allowed to have!

 

[Sparagmos]

How is this:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3404759/DJT-Resignation-Signature-Page-With-Exhibit-a.pdf

Starting at 33:33 for ease of reference

Thank you for this great opportunity, I look forward to your unbiased input.

With all due respect, do you know what “divest” means? Your post indicates otherwise.

 

[Richard T]

It does not take Trump to have anyone be skeptical of the Constitution. Many of the Founders were too. Most never expected it to last so long. Others noted that without the force of religion, it would not work either. Trump's transgressions on disclosure are trivial compared to many of the other recent transgressions from politicians. You can follow the money easily on many issues. Take Jimmy Carter's stance on Israel and Saudi money. Carter’s Arab financiers OR look at how often Obama violated the Constitution, with several his directives (executive orders, etc) being overturned. Other types of Constitutional principles violated in the name of a living Constitution. This does not absolve Trump, but already several of his directives, such as parts of the travel ban have been upheld by higher courts, in spite of lower courts trying to legislate from the bench. Liberal students are just figuring this out since they now have a leader they dislike. Others including members of Congress and have tried all kinds of tactics to halt Trump. Additionally, many are trying to change the rules to be more favorable to them. From allowing more felons to vote in Florida, to suggesting changes in the Electoral College, or keeping citizenship questions off the Census. Regardless of your political beliefs, pray for our leaders. Certainly, there is no need for alarm that students now see holes in the Federalist Papers.

 

[RichardY]

I am a liberal and center-leftist.

I would be concerned about to what degree a confederation of independent nations that cooperate on military matters would be feasible. Each would have their own interests, and without a joint vision on the way things ought to be run, I can imagine that breaking down into conflict fairly easily.

I do have some lingering concerns regarding federations like the European Union, since I spend a lot of time in Spain and the economic disparities between the northern and southern countries seem like a genuine problem. I don't think that really applies in the United States, though. (I'd say our problem is that we don't have a common goal anymore, and I don't see how liberal democracy can work if there's no agreement on what it ought to be doing.)

What does that mean being a liberal and centre leftist, that is very general?

I said a Common Wealth, not a Confederation. I can't really imagine Arizona or a neighbouring state invading California militarily or visa versa, because they were not economically joined at the hip.

Was there a common goal in the past?

 

[RichardY]

Man. What a parade of disappointment reading these replies.
My tendency would be to agree that his divesting was, at best superficial.

Here his supporters have a GREAT opportunity to provide a detailed rebuttal; A chance to put these liberal commies in their place with a fact based response

I'm not as informed on this as I could be and, while it does smell super fishy, fish tacos smell fishy and I love fish tacos. The same way I like facts. So a chance to convince me Trump took all appropriate steps for divestiture has gone past with Absolutely no convincing information

It's too bad posters complain about liberals attacking Trump and then do an abysmal job convincing others of the facts that support Trump.

Why do you have to be conquered?

 

[KCfromNC]

And they should do some research on the realities of what the president went through after his winning the election and before his inauguration

I think the money funneled to him from Russian oligarchs was widely reported. Why would you think they are unaware of that and other questionable activities during that time?

 

[KCfromNC]

What does that mean being a liberal and centre leftist, that is very general?

You could read what he's actually writing and find out. You know, instead of trying to paint a label on him that you admit is pretty meaningless.

 

[RichardY]

You could read what he's actually writing and find out. You know, instead of trying to paint a label on him that you admit is pretty meaningless.

You could look at their Avatar or profile and see she "identifies" as female... And stop projecting. I never said meaningless.

 

[Fantine]

Checks and balances are established in the Constitution. It seems obvious that Trump, on ignoring legal subpoenas and prohibiting his current and former employees to testify, us disobeying Congress right to oversight guaranteed by the Constitution.

And now that he has "invented" a crisis with Iran he will try to start an undeclared war to boost his electability.

 

[hislegacy]

With all due respect, do you know what “divest” means? Your post indicates otherwise.

With all due respect, do you know what “not required” means? Your post indicates otherwise.

 

[Sparagmos]

With all due respect, do you know what “not required” means? Your post indicates otherwise.

You clearly didn’t read the article. It doesn’t claim divestment is required by the constitution. That’s the point! Students are skeptical of the constitution because it hasn’t been able to safeguard us by requiring that Trump divest from his companies, among other reasons.

And your answer is a deflection. Removing yourself as a decision maker in a company is not divesting. Your links do not show that Trump divested from his companies.

 

[hislegacy]

Yeah, about that:

Change To President Trump's Trust Lets Him Tap Business Profits

There is an issue with him using his own money?