Trump best strategy with NK? Name calling.

[Aldebaran]

There wouldn't be enough of NK to wipe off your shoe, that's not the point. They eat their fermented cabbage and do what they are told. For decades NK has been able to pursue these weapons along with Iran because Pakistan sold the world community out. Now Trump thinks that strong words and idle threats are going to secure peace and security and he is going to stand up to them with his mindless rhetoric and they will be intimidated. He is wrong, he is not dealing with rational people. I fault him for being reckless in his rhetoric and fully expect he will be held accountable for a fallout with NK or Iran. He is dismantling decades of diplomacy and long term resolution but ok, wisdom is justified by her children.

Was there any diplomacy with NK at any other time before now?

I ask one thing and one thing only, if it blows up in your face own it. Because I'm sick to death of hearing both sides whine about the other. I decided to listen to Rush Limbaugh about the budget process, every now and then he can be insightful. You know what I got for my time, Clinton and Obama hate mongering. Mitch McConnell tried to bully Health Care reform through that was completely revised from the House version, and compiled in secret by 13 Senators, without anyone getting to even read it. Well you can read it during the amendment process he tells us. Trump tells us he is going to build this wall, he has made no effort to erect except to say mean things on twitter. Don't get me wrong, the Democrats are little better in power but at least the Senate didn't silence all debate on the floor when the ACA was being worked out.

They didn't have to. They were in power at the time. Whatever they voted for was went through. Now all they're doing for their part of the process is to vote "no" whenever it comes up.

Iran is back in the game, Trump threw progress to the winds, great job except he has nothing to replace the deal with. NK is now fully nuclear capable with a missile that can reach the United States, a speech about sovereignty at the UN would neutralize that. We plunge into that abyss the world community has been working tirelessly to stop us from going into you can believe with all your heart he will be held accountable. Blaming Clinton's email server and Obama's policies won't be the issue, it will be this bragging spoiled brat who woefully underestimated what NK is prepared to do.

I think it's pretty obvious to everyone what NK is prepared to do. That's the scariest part about it. They now have the nukes, along with the missiles, and are even progressing to even bigger bombs, such as the H-bomb. No way we can stop it, accept to make Un understand that using them would mean his demise. If the guy cares about that, he'll think twice. Otherwise, our only defense is our missile interceptors which will hopefully function as advertised.

 

[Aldebaran]

No more so than the Martial Artist who breaks boards with his bare hands intends to defend himself from a homicidal tree.

Then in light of post #157, your arguments mean nothing. I'll look at them that way from now on.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Then in light of post #157, your arguments mean nothing. I'll look at them that way from now on.

You've been doing that since we met -- why should that suddenly bother me?

 

[mark kennedy]

Was there any diplomacy with NK at any other time before now?

Constantly.

They didn't have to. They were in power at the time. Whatever they voted for was went through. Now all they're doing for their part of the process is to vote "no" whenever it comes up.

That or simply accept without normal procedure, No committees, no discourse, no one gets to even read it. That's not democracy, that's aristocracy. Blame the other side, that's the order of the day and that is what's wrong with our government.

I think it's pretty obvious to everyone what NK is prepared to do. That's the scariest part about it. They now have the nukes, along with the missiles, and are even progressing to even bigger bombs, such as the H-bomb. No way we can stop it, accept to make Un understand that using them would mean his demise. If the guy cares about that, he'll think twice. Otherwise, our only defense is our missile interceptors which will hopefully function as advertised.

That's not our only defense but when diplomacy fails it will be our only option. Hitting a bullet with a bullet was about 50/50 against the scuds during the Persian Gulf War, let's hope they have gotten better with their aim since then. That's to say nothing of artillery being rained down on Seoul killing who knows how many, destroying who knows how much.

But ok, if you think saber rattling and pedantic threats are the only option have at it. But if it all comes crashing down it's on the right, just like the failure of repeal and replace is on the GOP. You wait till the first of the year it's too late to get meaningful legislation through and I think the chances of tax reform and that crazy wall are pipe dreams.

We will know more at the end of the month, as Trump would say, I wish you luck.

 

[Aldebaran]

You've been doing that since we met -- why should that suddenly bother me?

I'm glad to hear it won't. Wouldn't want you to be bothered.

 

[Aldebaran]

Constantly.

But it clearly didn't work. NK took that diplomacy as weakness. It certainly didn't slow them down in doing what they wanted.

That's not our only defense but when diplomacy fails it will be our only option. Hitting a bullet with a bullet was about 50/50 against the scuds during the Persian Gulf War, let's hope they have gotten better with their aim since then. That's to say nothing of artillery being rained down on Seoul killing who knows how many, destroying who knows how much.

Granted, it will be a no-win situation when the bullets start flying. I just don't know what kind of diplomacy it would take to stop a guy who sets off an H bomb and then says he's going to do it again over Pacific. It resembles a hostage situation where a bank robber makes demands and is holding some kind of mega weapon that will kill millions if his demands aren't met. He has to get everything he wants or everyone dies. It's not right to keep giving in to demands. It only strengthens the hands of the one with the weapon.

But ok, if you think saber rattling and pedantic threats are the only option have at it. But if it all comes crashing down it's on the right, just like the failure of repeal and replace is on the GOP. You wait till the first of the year it's too late to get meaningful legislation through and I think the chances of tax reform and that crazy wall are pipe dreams.

I'm open to ideas about diplomacy. That involves some kind of negotiations, but I'm not sure what can be done in that way. What does NK even want?

 

[mark kennedy]

But it clearly didn't work. NK took that diplomacy as weakness. It certainly didn't slow them down in doing what they wanted.

They will anyway but nukes are not cheap, you could have enough patience to wait while the very thing that brought Iran to the table takes effect. Or is an actual workable stategy short of bloodshed and mayhem too much to ask.

Granted, it will be a no-win situation when the bullets start flying. I just don't know what kind of diplomacy it would take to stop a guy who sets off an H bomb and then says he's going to do it again over Pacific. It resembles a hostage situation where a bank robber makes demands and is holding some kind of mega weapon that will kill millions if his demands aren't met. He has to get everything he wants or everyone dies. It's not right to keep giving in to demands. It only strengthens the hands of the one with the weapon.

Every bank robber who talks to a SWAT negotiator demands a car, helicopter, free passage to a non-extradition country and every one of them is told no. They seal the area up, no one in and no one out and if they want food and water they have to give something in return. If anyone is harmed, all deals are off, they are coming in. Let them understand that and they start getting negotiable. The key is patience and we saw that work with Iran if you were paying any attention at all.

I'm open to ideas about diplomacy. That involves some kind of negotiations, but I'm not sure what can be done in that way. What does NK even want?

Learn from history or die in ignorance, not you, but all of us. It worked with Iran and you can say what you want about Obama's choices but Trump is President now. Tossing out that agreement won't be as long range as the Paris Accords, but we will have to wait and see about that. Trump wants to repeal Obamacare with nothing to replace it, he want's to set aside the Iranian accord with nothing to replace it, he wants to depose the NK government but he knows nothing of nation building, did he learn nothing from Iraq?

It all sounds good from a podium, people cheer and there is a lot of emotion backing them early. Hitler heard the roar of the crowds, so did Mussolini, the Czars fell and we got Stalin. The king of France lost his head and they got Napoleon. NATO kept the peace in Europe for fifty years with an occasional set back but has held steady because they stood together and defeated the Soviet threat through trade and diplomacy.

We are not going to get instant gratification, we will either learn from history or die in ignorance.

 

[Aldebaran]

Every bank robber who talks to a SWAT negotiator demands a car, helicopter, free passage to a non-extradition country and every one of them is told no. They seal the area up, no one in and no one out and if they want food and water they have to give something in return. If anyone is harmed, all deals are off, they are coming in. Let them understand that and they start getting negotiable. The key is patience and we saw that work with Iran if you were paying any attention at all.

The reason I brought up the scenario with the bank robber (with hostages and a weapon that can kill millions) is because that's sort of what NK is like. They have hostages (South Korea and their own population) that we don't want killed. But the rest of what you said I agree with. If NK does anything that harms people, all deals are off and we would be going in. But in a military sense, that means war.
Iran may have come to the table and started negotiating (and got pretty much everything they wanted), but they didn't seem to have developed their nuclear technology to the level NK now has. That puts NK in a much stronger position than even Iran was in.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Iran may have come to the table and started negotiating (and got pretty much everything they wanted), but they didn't seem to have developed their nuclear technology to the level NK now has. That puts NK in a much stronger position than even Iran was in.

All that means is that they would come to the bargaining table with a lot more to bargain with. Same game, higher stakes.

Now, what we need is a shrewd negotiator -- someone with the skill and finesse (possibly gained from the business world) who could get North Korea to the table and walk away with an arrangement in which all parties involved are satisfied... someone skilled in the "art of the deal," as it were...

Know anyone like that? Because I'm drawing a blank...

 

[variant]

Strategy seems to be a poor word choice.

 

[mark kennedy]

The reason I brought up the scenario with the bank robber (with hostages and a weapon that can kill millions) is because that's sort of what NK is like. They have hostages (South Korea and their own population) that we don't want killed. But the rest of what you said I agree with. If NK does anything that harms people, all deals are off and we would be going in. But in a military sense, that means war.
Iran may have come to the table and started negotiating (and got pretty much everything they wanted), but they didn't seem to have developed their nuclear technology to the level NK now has. That puts NK in a much stronger position than even Iran was in.

Iran was on the brink and literally has everything they need. They have started testing their missiles again, not a good sign. I think Iran is going to have a real hard time trusting us in the future, it's looking like a giant leap back from where I'm standing.

 

[mark kennedy]

All that means is that they would come to the bargaining table with a lot more to bargain with. Same game, higher stakes.

Now, what we need is a shrewd negotiator -- someone with the skill and finesse (possibly gained from the business world) who could get North Korea to the table and walk away with an arrangement in which all parties involved are satisfied... someone skilled in the "art of the deal," as it were...

Know anyone like that? Because I'm drawing a blank...

There is no shortage of diplomats, the problem is the one in charge of policy isn't worried about a diplomatic solution. Not a good sign.

 

[W2L]

ALL politics are corrupted by money and power. NO matter who you vote for, its rigged to fail. Politics feeds on failure. One side will always accuse the other, yet they are ALL corrupt.

 

[Fantine]

I think that Trump's best strategy is to rely on the advice of his military triumvirate who, thank heavens, seem to be the only cabinet appointees he's made who are competent and focused on the good of the country.

Because he has not studied the situation exhaustively (or even minimally) and does not possess the temperment for rational considered decision making it is best for him to leave those decisions to the recommendations of others.

 

[mark kennedy]

ALL politics are corrupted by money and power. NO matter who you vote for, its rigged to fail. Politics feeds on failure. One side will always accuse the other, yet they are ALL corrupt.

Thanks, that is very helpful. Any ideas on a solution?

 

[W2L]

Thanks, that is very helpful. Any ideas on a solution?

Yes. Vote for who you want but understand that God is in control. Also, very important, dont argue politics if you are a christian, because our way is the Gospel of peace, not the good news of strife and fear. Just my opinion, you asked.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I think that Trump's best strategy is to rely on the advice of his military triumvirate who, thank heavens, seem to be the only cabinet appointees he's made who are competent and focused on the good of the country.

Probably because they were picked from the military, and not his yes-men.

Interestingly enough:

View from the Left: Has Trump's instability ushered in a soft military coup?

The question would cause concern... if it were any other president.

Because he has not studied the situation exhaustively (or even minimally) and does not possess the temperment for rational considered decision making it is best for him to leave those decisions to the recommendations of others.

You could be referring to literally almost anything here.

 

[Fantine]

Trump's military leaders are better than his other cabinet members because they were not handpicked to dismantle their departments--defense being perhaps the only department most conservatives think our country needs.

Otherwise we have a Sec'y of Environmental Destruction (Pruitt), a Sec'y of Ignorance (DeVos), a Secretary of Sickness and Human Neglect (Price).....leading their departments with malevolence and attacking their regulations with hatchets...

While I certainly don't want a soft military coup, when 46.3% of the American people (not me) elected someone who is unfit to hold the office of president we need to have some grownups at the table who can step in when necessary.

 

[mark kennedy]

Yes. Vote for who you want but understand that God is in control. Also, very important, dont argue politics if you are a christian, because our way is the Gospel of peace, not the good news of strife and fear. Just my opinion, you asked.

That's interesting but I doubt I will refrain from arguing politics because this is a democracy, it's kind of what we do. I still know who is in charge, but there is a responsibility.

 

[W2L]

That's interesting but I doubt I will refrain from arguing politics because this is a democracy, it's kind of what we do. I still know who is in charge, but there is a responsibility.

To me politics are a distraction from peace, love, and joy. Christians are supposed to glorify God with one mind and one voice. Hard to do that while arguing over the lies and strife that politicians feed us. Thats just my opinion.