Trump’s business empire could collapse ‘like falling dominoes’ after ruling

[Whyayeman]

The lack of a jury is entirely due to the judge denying them one ahead of time.

Repeating this does not change the law. This was a civil case, not a criminal case.

I think that is the misunderstanding here.

 

[JustOneWay]

Do you have a full transcript of everything brought up between the defence attorneys and the judge? Including what was said in any instances where they approached the bench or while in the judge's chambers? Since the judge made it perfectly clear there would be no jury, the defence can petition for an appeal based on that. Them not requesting something that was formerly denied ahead of time is moot. The lack of a jury is entirely due to the judge denying them one ahead of time.

Did Trump lawyers flub by failing to request jury trial in civil fraud case?

Former President Donald Trump has told reporters that it was “very unfair” that he didn’t have a jury trial in the civil fraud case alleging that he inflated the value of his properties in statements to insurers and banks.

www.abajournal.com

"In a statement published by MSNBC, Trump lawyer Alina Habba said the case was filed under a consumer protection statute that denies the right to a jury, and “there was never an option to choose a jury trial.” The New York Times made a similar point in an Oct. 2 story.

But some lawyers say the issue could have been litigated."

 

[Ceallaigh]

Repeating this does not change the law. This was a civil case, not a criminal case.

I think that is the misunderstanding here.

In the US lots of times there is a jury in a civil trial. Like in the Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard civil trial for example.

I think misunderstandings are coming from those outside the US who don't understand how things work here.

 

[USincognito]

A good lawyer would try anyway.

Donald hiring a lawyer for competence instead of looks or having a funny/alliterative name?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Did Trump lawyers flub by failing to request jury trial in civil fraud case?

Former President Donald Trump has told reporters that it was “very unfair” that he didn’t have a jury trial in the civil fraud case alleging that he inflated the value of his properties in statements to insurers and banks.

www.abajournal.com

"In a statement published by MSNBC, Trump lawyer Alina Habba said the case was filed under a consumer protection statute that denies the right to a jury, and “there was never an option to choose a jury trial.” The New York Times made a similar point in an Oct. 2 story.

But some lawyers say the issue could have been litigated."

I think some people just want to get their jollies.

 

[Whyayeman]

In the US lots of times there is a jury in a civil trial. Like in the Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard civil trial for example.

I think misunderstandings are coming from those outside the US who don't understand how things work here.

That trial, along with many others which have juries, was a defamation trial. They normally are tried by a jury. UK civil law is similar and US laws stem from it. I know there are differences, but this is not one of them.

All this is rather off-topic. The issue is really about the effect of the guilty verdict on the Trump estate. Forced sales, down-grading of credit, recalls of outstanding debts which have poor security now that the Trump assets have been re-assessed.

That sort of thing.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Trump’s business empire could collapse ‘like falling dominoes’ after ruling

Trump is effectively ‘out of business’ in New York, Michael Cohen says, after judge rules business fortune built on rampant fraud

www.theguardian.com

The empire is crumbling. Once business confidence starts to slide all debts will be called in. It will start with the liquidator selling off assets at a loss thenthe banks will foreclose on their loans.

I think this could be the beginning of the end for Trump.

If I was Trump I'd seek asylum in another country for the present political persecution in America...

 

[Whyayeman]

If I was Trump I'd seek asylum in another country for the present political persecution in America...

Where should he run to? I'm sure he would welcome suggestions.

He struck up a lovely rapport with President Putin. There is always North Korea. He couldn't claim asylum here because we only accept political refugees, but not common criminals.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Why all the hatred towards Donald Trump in this thread? I don't get it. All he did was make the country better. And all the things he was attacked about, for being a racist, for wanting to build the wall, all of those things were right. The current president completely undid everything and I cannot believe for a second that anyone thinks America is a better place since 2019. I won't include 2020 because that year was an attack on him. That virus was released, outside of his control, and I personally believe, by forces who were intent on taking him, as well as nationalist movement across Europe, down.

Hatred towards you too for writing that. You're sure to be seen as a deplorable threat to democracy cult member who needs to be deprogrammed.

 

[Whyayeman]

all of those things were right.

That is a matter of opinion. Obviously people here disagree.

My opinion of Trump the man is irrelevant. I put the question about the possibility of the Trump real estate collapsing following the 'Guilty' verdict in the civil action brought in New York.

Nobody has mentioned The Wall or made contentious remarks about the Covid virus..

I think this could be the beginning of the end for Trump.

Whatever one's view of the man, this is a possibility worth consideration, don't you think?

 

[Bradskii]

And all the things he was attacked about, for being a racist...all of those things were right.

You prefer that racists run the country?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Trump’s business empire could collapse ‘like falling dominoes’ after ruling

Trump is effectively ‘out of business’ in New York, Michael Cohen says, after judge rules business fortune built on rampant fraud

www.theguardian.com

The empire is crumbling. Once business confidence starts to slide all debts will be called in. It will start with the liquidator selling off assets at a loss thenthe banks will foreclose on their loans.

I think this could be the beginning of the end for Trump.

Well let's see...

WSJ News Exclusive | Estée Lauder Scion Asks $200 Million for Palm Beach Properties

Together, the parcels have roughly 360 feet of direct beach frontage

www.google.com

That's an empty parcel of maybe a couple of acres for 200$ million...right in the same area as Mar-a-Lago.


And here's a 200$ million dollar mansion that sits just down the street from Mar-a-Lago and it's only on 4.3 acres.

Billionaire to buy Florida estate for record--just under $200MILLION

Steven Schonfeld, 60, is about to set a record with a $200million purchase of a Palm Beach, Florida estate. Another South Ocean Blvd. property sold for $105million, the highest to date.

www.google.com

The building of Mar-a-Lago itself is about the same size (or at least comparable) to the mansion above....but the total property sits on 20+ acres.

Was the judge smoking crack with Hunter Biden when the 18$ million evaluation was made???

 

[Gene2memE]

Well let's see...

WSJ News Exclusive | Estée Lauder Scion Asks $200 Million for Palm Beach Properties

Together, the parcels have roughly 360 feet of direct beach frontage

www.google.com

That's an empty parcel of maybe a couple of acres for 200$ million...right in the same area as Mar-a-Lago.

And here's a 200$ million dollar mansion that sits just down the street from Mar-a-Lago and it's only on 4.3 acres.

Billionaire to buy Florida estate for record--just under $200MILLION

Steven Schonfeld, 60, is about to set a record with a $200million purchase of a Palm Beach, Florida estate. Another South Ocean Blvd. property sold for $105million, the highest to date.

www.google.com

The building of Mar-a-Lago itself is about the same size (or at least comparable) to the mansion above....but the total property sits on 20+ acres.

None of those properties have the same conservation/preservation and land use stipulations and limitations that Mar-a-Lago has.

Which Trump agreed to as conditions of his original purchase in the 1980s and efforts to turn it into a social club during the 1990s and 2000s. These create rather obvious limitations to any sale value.

Was the judge smoking crack with Hunter Biden when the 18$ million evaluation was made???

Setting aside pointless insults - the judge didn't make that valuation. That's the Palm Beach County Assessor's market valuation for tax purposes. Which the Trump Organzation agreed to.

From the ruling (page 26, second paragraph): https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/trump-judges-ruling/ce6de7d636227e1b/full.pdf

"From 2011-2021, the Palm Beach County Assessor appraised the market value of Mar-a - Lago at between $ 18 million and $ 27.6 million".

I've read reports (cant vouch for veracity) that the Trump Organization objected in 2010 to the Palm Beach County Assessor's market valuation, claiming that it was $6 million too high and fought to get the valuation lowered.

As of 2023, the Trump Organization had agreed to a increase in the market valuation - to $37 million. Yet, they tried to argue in court that the property was worth $1.51 billion. I wonder if Palm Beach Country should be seeking some unpaid taxes?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Judge orders Trump to remove disparaging social media post....and implements a gag order:
When court resumed at 3 p.m. ET, Engoron noted that earlier today, Trump made a social media post about his law clerk that was also emailed to millions of people.
Engoron said he ordered the post to be taken down and that personal attacks on his staff were unacceptable and would not be tolerated.
He also said that violations of his order would lead to swift, meaningful sanctions.

Trump fraud trial judge suggests gag order violation could result in imprisonment​

Judge Arthur Engoron said despite his clear order to take down a social media post attacking his clerk, “I learned that the subject post was never removed from the website.”

“And, in fact, had been on that website for the past 17 days. I understand that it was removed late last night but only in response to an email,” Engoron said.

The post was removed from Truth Social right after the gag order was issued but not from Trump’s campaign website, DonaldJTrump.com.

“I will now provide defendants an opportunity to explain why this blatant violation of this gag order should not result in serious sanctions including financial penalties… and or possibly imprisonment.”

Kise blamed it on the large machinery of the campaign and was assured the judge that Trump ordered the post removed.

Engoron said, “I will take this under advisement. I want to make clear that Donald Trump is still responsible for the large machine, even if it is a large machine.”

 

[wing2000]

Engoron said, “I will take this under advisement. I want to make clear that Donald Trump is still responsible for the large machine, even if it is a large machine.”

"The judge presiding over the civil fraud trial of Donald J. Trump fined the former president $5,000 on Friday for a “blatant violation” of a gag order imposed this month.

The judge, Arthur F. Engoron, stopped short of holding Mr. Trump in contempt but warned that the former president still could face harsher punishments, even jail time, if he ran afoul of the order again.

...
In a new order on Friday, Justice Engoron said he had imposed only a “nominal” $5,000 fine because it was Mr. Trump’s first violation and an unintentional error, but he warned that additional infractions would merit harsher punishments.

“Make no mistake: future violations, whether intentional or unintentional, will subject the violator to far more severe sanctions,” Justice Engoron wrote. He said possible punishments included steeper fines, holding Mr. Trump in contempt of court and “possibly imprisoning him.”

Trump Fined $5,000 for Breaking Gag Order by Leaving Abusive Post Online

The former president used social media to attack a clerk for the judge in his civil fraud case, and left a copy of the post online for weeks.

www.nytimes.com

 

[essentialsaltes]

Can you all hear the "But..." as loudly as I can?

 

[Whyayeman]

He does not look well here.