Child of JC said:
Yes, God forbid Christians should consider the Bible.
I did.
OK. Go ahead and show us anytime you're ready.
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"Toronto Blessing"
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Yes, God forbid Christians should consider the Bible.
I did.
OK. Go ahead and show us anytime you're ready.
Child of JC said:
Our God is not a barbarian. He does not have people literally bark for Him. Paul called for order, we are told to search the scriptures to see if something is from God. Do me a favor, if you believe that this is God, then find me some scriptural evidence that supports it.
Can you tell me where did you get that people were saved? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. So people were saved - it doesn't make the movement any more acceptable in the eyes of God. It just means He used it for His good will. Remember when Joseph was sold into slavery in Egypt. God used the terror He was in for his good will:
But Joseph said to them, "Don't be afraid. Am I in the place of God? 20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. 21 So then, don't be afraid. I will provide for you and your children." And he reassured them and spoke kindly to them. (Genesis 50:19-21)
God continues to do this today. If He did it for Joseph, why couldn't the situation be the same here? If people are saved because of this, well - great. But it doesn't make it right. Allowing such practices will only lead to continued apostasy, which has already plagued Christianity enough. Unless I see hard biblical evidence, no way I'll believe it.
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Child of JC
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Where in the bible does it say that the devil allows ANYONE to be saved? Never mind the fact that he does this to deceive others. And if it's true, how exacly would the devil use millions (which is much more than "a few" now do you see how the #s are relevent?) of saved people to deceive others? I just cant see how the devil is going to use God's army against HIM, (now this is where the numbers thing does not matter, cause I dont care if it's a million or 2) "ALL who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Who calls on the name of the Lord? "He that believeth shall be saved" So it's those who hear the truth and believe are saved. Its also God's will that ALL will call upon His name. With this said, I would like to know of one person who heard untruth in Toronto, or from Benny Hinn, and got saved because of it.
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Child of JC said:
1)The devil can only do what God permits him to do. And as I've also explained, the Lord uses bad for good. Can you give me some statistics proving that "millions" get saved at this Toronto "revival"? Especially considering that the vast majority of people who actually visit this church are Christians in themselves.
2)You still haven't explained how this is of God. Stop repeating that because people get saved (funny how though it's Christians that go to the Toronto church, not non-believers), because that doesn't mean anything. Millions of souls are also saved in the Roman Catholic Church, but not everyone agrees with Catholic practices, like the verenation of Mary.
3)I could care less if Benny Hinn practices Holy Laughter. It just shows how ignorant he himself is of God's own word. The fact is, there's no scriptural support, and until you find some, don't go running your mouth stating that it's of God. Even Jesus said that in the last days, that even the elect will be deceived from signs and wonders.
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the electif that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time. (Matthew 24:24)
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Child of JC
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Child of JC
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I went to the website, found nothing.Reazzurro90 said:
You know as I do, that you are not going to find scripture that talks about these manifestations. I believe what I have experienced. I know God. And He met me on the carpet. I really dont need to step back and look at the big picture of politicts to know if it was really Him, cause it was.
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Child of JC said:Reazzurro90 said:
Of course, woman who thinks she's hearing from God is much more valuable than studying the Bible...God does not contradict Himself, and He surely would not bless a movement that contradicted Him. God has left all I need to know if this is from God - scripture. My eyes are open to it, and it simply tells me... NO. Let's go back to what scripture says, and how it aligns with this woman's so-called "revelation."
For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. (1 Corinthians 14:33)
This should be critical. Why would God allow random barking and clucking for His will? What purpose do they have? Who do they edify? The answer is no one. It edifies no one, and has no purpose. When Paul criticized the Corinthian church for misuse of tongues, the first thing he asked them was:
Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? (1 Cor. 14:6)
And indeed, what good is it to anyone? What good is clucking like a chicken if it brings nothing for anyone? Your spirit does nothing - it does not even speak! Furthermore, it is chaotic, and Paul said that everything should be done in an orderly way (1 Cor. 14:40).
We are also instructed to beware of the heart, as it is deceitful (Jeremiah 17:9). Mormons claim their testimony is divine as well, and they say that their heart tells them. But we are to read God's word. In 2 Timothy 4:3, it also says:
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
God's word is our instruction, what we need to live by. If we allow a "free-flow" expanse assume the place of sound doctrine, then Christianity will cease to exist and be nothing but a "feel-good" faith like New Age.
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Child of JC said:
If I'm not going to find scripture, than what point is there in believing it? The Bible commands us to believe IT, and to test what we see.
And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:19-21)
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FireOfGod
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The chicken noises... Haha! That was one of John Scotlands friends. He (John Scotland) came to our church recently and he was making all kinds of random and strange noises in the middle of his preaching. I thought it was hilarious, and anointed. They all had prophetic meanings, and just by him doing it a religious devil would leave anyone in a minute.
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AudioArtist
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FireOfGod said:
Sounds a bit odd to me. Mind you, if it was God-He can do exactly what He wants, how He wants.
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AudioArtist said:
Sounds a bit odd to me. Mind you, if it was God-He can do exactly what He wants, how He wants.
And you are a religious devil if you don't accept it?
Mind control is a funny thing.
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AudioArtist
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Heh.
Mind you, I know a very intelligent and wonderful pastor who was there during this revival, and he said it blessed him greatly, and that it was wonderful to see God moving and miracles occuring.
He's not the sort of man to hype things up unneccessarily, and I trust his opinions, so....I guess some elements of it definately were of God (and remember, our reactions to the Eternal, all-powerful God of Love are bound to be pretty emmotional sometimes!) and other elements were due to the sinfulness of man and maybe even demonic influence.
People I know who were there during revivals like this were always changed for the better, though-and if that's Satan doing this, then he's doing a very bad job of turning people away from Jesus!
Mind you, I know a very intelligent and wonderful pastor who was there during this revival, and he said it blessed him greatly, and that it was wonderful to see God moving and miracles occuring.
He's not the sort of man to hype things up unneccessarily, and I trust his opinions, so....I guess some elements of it definately were of God (and remember, our reactions to the Eternal, all-powerful God of Love are bound to be pretty emmotional sometimes!) and other elements were due to the sinfulness of man and maybe even demonic influence.
People I know who were there during revivals like this were always changed for the better, though-and if that's Satan doing this, then he's doing a very bad job of turning people away from Jesus!
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AudioArtist said:
Follow the glory. If it ends up sitting in the lap of a person, rest assured that was not God. but if the glory goes to God, keep your eyes open!
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Father Rick
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Just something I found today I thought I would throw in here...
I was speaking to one of the elders from the local First Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). They are doing a short play/dramatic reading this coming Sunday regarding the founding of the Disciples of Christ taking from dialogue between two of the founders Alexander Campbell and Barton Stone. In the dialogue it specifically mentions the "emotionalism of that revival (referring the the Cane Ridge Revival of 1801) in which some bark like dogs and others even faint".
Just wanted to point out that the manifestations of the "Toronto Blessing" are nothing 'new'.
I was speaking to one of the elders from the local First Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). They are doing a short play/dramatic reading this coming Sunday regarding the founding of the Disciples of Christ taking from dialogue between two of the founders Alexander Campbell and Barton Stone. In the dialogue it specifically mentions the "emotionalism of that revival (referring the the Cane Ridge Revival of 1801) in which some bark like dogs and others even faint".
Just wanted to point out that the manifestations of the "Toronto Blessing" are nothing 'new'.
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Father Rick said:
Rick, come on man. Surely you are not equating the Disciples of Christ with actual Christians?
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Questioning Christian
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Listen to me:
[1.] People getting saved does not VALIDATE a revival.
[2.] People getting saved does not INVALIDATE a revival.
The people who got saved were saved only by the power of the Holy Spirit. God does not need the devil's permission to save.
However, people getting saved has to do only with the power of the Holy Spirit, and nothing at all to do with the revival. It has to do with the heart of the individual.
When you stand before God, and he says, "You're saved; enter in, you get mansion number 4579520654, apartment 3", you don't say, "Oh, God, the preacher made me get saved; it wasn't my decision."
[1.] People getting saved does not VALIDATE a revival.
[2.] People getting saved does not INVALIDATE a revival.
The people who got saved were saved only by the power of the Holy Spirit. God does not need the devil's permission to save.
However, people getting saved has to do only with the power of the Holy Spirit, and nothing at all to do with the revival. It has to do with the heart of the individual.
When you stand before God, and he says, "You're saved; enter in, you get mansion number 4579520654, apartment 3", you don't say, "Oh, God, the preacher made me get saved; it wasn't my decision."
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TreeOfLife said:
Father Rick is talking about the Toronto "Blessing" in the Disciples of Christ. You criticized the comparison. But why not compare? Disciples of Christ or Christian, this "Blessing" is still unscriptural and therefore, bad either way.
If a non-Christian lies, it's just as bad as if a Christian lied.
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