"Toronto Blessing"

[probinson]

Are you just ignoring the scriptures I have taken the time and effort to offer in every post (with links), not to mention the excellent logic of my arguments , or are you simply not wanting to see my point?

Romans 12:3
For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.

"Excellent logic" could be a subjective term here...

Sure God gives joy. He makes me laugh, sometimes. But he does not make me do it to disrupt a service, or call attention to myself at a revival meeting, or to put my spirituality on display....
[/QUOTE]

Is it "disuptive" to a service if everone in the room is laughing? Or is it the purpose of said service? Maybe some people need to lighten up and forget their troubles. Maybe some people need to laugh at their circumstances. Should we seek "holy laughter"? Absolutely not. We should seek God. If God then causes us to laugh and forget our troubles, I'm cool with that.

 

[JimB]

[/size][/font][/color]Romans 12:3
For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.

"Excellent logic" could be a subjective term here...

Sure God gives joy. He makes me laugh, sometimes. But he does not make me do it to disrupt a service, or call attention to myself at a revival meeting, or to put my spirituality on display....

Is it "disuptive" to a service if everone in the room is laughing? Or is it the purpose of said service? Maybe some people need to lighten up and forget their troubles. Maybe some people need to laugh at their circumstances. Should we seek "holy laughter"? Absolutely not. We should seek God. If God then causes us to laugh and forget our troubles, I'm cool with that.[/QUOTE]
I believe so, at least in most cases (and in every case in which I have witnessed it). I have never heard of a service where EVERYone, without exception, was laughing. If they are, it is simply natural contagious laughter (like a gaggle of giggling girls at a slumber party) given free license to exhibit their flesh and erroneously glorified by its leaders as a sacred thing. It’s not. It’s merely a natural phenomenon dubbed spiritual move of God. It should not be encouraged in any significant meeting – professional, business, classroom … or church.

IMO.

\o/

 

[probinson]

I believe so, at least in most cases (and in every case in which I have witnessed it). I have never heard of a service where EVERYone, without exception, was laughing. If they are, it is simply natural contagious laughter (like a gaggle of giggling girls at a slumber party) given free license to exhibit their flesh and erroneously glorified by its leaders as a sacred thing. It’s not. It’s merely a natural phenomenon dubbed spiritual move of God. It should not be encouraged in any significant meeting – professional, business, classroom … or church.

IMO.

\o/

But you see, I have been in a meeting where EVERYONE was laughing. We were all laughing at our circumstances, relying on the joy of the Lord to be our strength. The next day, things started happening. People were absolved of debts. People were miraculously healed of things that had afflicted them for years. People's attitudes and outlooks changed drastically. The laughter that we experienced in that service was the people taking the whole of their care and giving it to God. It's not easy to laugh when the bank is about to foreclose on your house and reposess your car, but laugh they did, and the very next day, things began happening on their behalf. It's not about the laughter. It's about casting your cares on Jesus.

 

[Doug45]

If you do not want me to go “back and forth” on this issue, stop returning my volleys. It takes two to go back and forth in tennis and in a discussion.

Are you just ignoring the scriptures I have taken the time and effort to offer in every post (with links), not to mention the excellent logic of my arguments , or are you simply not wanting to see my point?

Sure God gives joy. He makes me laugh, sometimes. But he does not make me do it to disrupt a service, or call attention to myself at a revival meeting, or to put my spirituality on display … whatever other reason you feel God wants you do become hysterical in a crowd. He has given me the fruit of the Spirit, self-control (Gal. 5.23). He expects me to exercise it, even at church.
And you don't have to believe me nor I you, but we must respect each other's opinions.
\o/

Jim,

In many cases the scriptures that you give prove to you what you say. Be blessed and hold to your beliefs if you choose. but if we don't understand or interpret the scriptures that you give in the same way and they don't prove the same things to us, why would it follow that there is no other conclusion?

And while your logic is excellent sometimes, that doesn't mean we are required to agree with you at all times or to accept your 'logic' at all times.

Personally, I look at the scripture differently than you do. I see them as providing a picture of the nature and character of God and the potential relationship that we can have with Him. There are countless points of reference to give us the 'feel' of who He is, but it was written that if we were to record all that Jesus did (in three years), there would not be enough room on earth to contain the volumes. I believe the Father to be the same way only we would have to record milleniums worth of information.

My point is that the scripture is not a rule book, but rather a guide book. What is plain within it is plain and should be adhered to. What is not referenced must be measured on the basis of whether it violates the principle and spirit of the word. God's communication and methods are not static. He will use whatever He needs to communicate affectively with each of us, but His purpose and character will never change.

1 Kings 8:10-11
And it came about when the priests came from the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord.

They left the Holy Place in order to enter the outer courts where the people are and they could not minister because some 'Unseen Force' overwhelmed them. (no disrespect intended against the Holy Spirit) And you know what? I don't think the people complained because I believe that the glory of God came upon them as well.

Oh that was outrageous because the meeting was not in order. How could God do such a thing? After all, it is written that we must do all things decently and in order? (sarcasm)

Give me a break. What's the difference between the shikinah glory causing people to lose their ability to stand and Him causing people to laugh their heads off?

Yes it can happen in the natural. So what. Most of the giftings of God can have a counterfeit version provided by our enemy. So, are we to stop prophesying because there are sorcerers about?

Please think through your response before posting.

Blessings,

Doug

 

[TruthSetsYouFree]

1 Kings 8:10-11
And it came about when the priests came from the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord.

They left the Holy Place in order to enter the outer courts where the people are and they could not minister because some 'Unseen Force' overwhelmed them. (no disrespect intended against the Holy Spirit) And you know what? I don't think the people complained because I believe that the glory of God came upon them as well.

Oh that was outrageous because the meeting was not in order. How could God do such a thing? After all, it is written that we must do all things decently and in order? (sarcasm)

Give me a break. What's the difference between the shikinah glory causing people to lose their ability to stand and Him causing people to laugh their heads off?

My words exactly, Doug.

Self-control as a term in itself means very little unless you explain the factor by which you are exercising control over thy self. In other words, self-control means to be able to control thyself according to what? Legalistic rules or laws? Or according to what the Father is heaven leads us?

 

[JimB]

I guess we are at the place where we have to agree to disagree and remain friends. I see laughter in a public meetings as a natural occurrence of contagious laughter; you see it as a supernatural something, “holy’ laughter. To me it is controllable, does not edify the whole body, is a breach of the fruit of the Spirit self-control and unscriptural; you see it otherwise. We both offer our scriptures and still cannot agree. So we will have to disagree on this one.

\o/

 

[TruthSetsYouFree]

I see laughter in a public meetings as a natural occurrence of contagious laughter; you see it as a supernatural something, “holy’ laughter.

These are words being put into my mouth. I don't see 'all' cases of laughter in church or public meetings as holy laughter... as you said. My big point is that holy laughter is possible, and God can do such a thing to His people.

My belief is that God 'can' give His people laughter in His presence. Not that everytime a bunch of people take off laughing that it's always 'holy laughter'.

I guess we are at the place where we have to agree to disagree and remain friends. I see laughter in a public meetings as a natural occurrence of contagious laughter; you see it as a supernatural something, “holy’ laughter. To me it is controllable, does not edify the whole body, is a breach of the fruit of the Spirit self-control and unscriptural; you see it otherwise. We both offer our scriptures and still cannot agree. So we will have to disagree on this one.

Jim, I think your right. I don't see any point in continuing this discussion, because I think our minds are pretty much made up.

I know Jesus would do things all the time that would be considered unorderly in a lot of people's eyes. He slammed the Pharisees for being a brood of vipers. He turned tables of the money changers in the temple. He 'worked' on the Sabbath as the Pharisees called it. He did many things that weren't "in order" according to many people's understandings. Jesus had self-control, but it was according to the will of His Father in heaven, and not according to 'law and order'.