To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!

[K2K]

Using your faulty logic, if I were to come into a large inheritance, and God speaks to me to not keep any of it for myself, I suppose you would assume I pay the estate/inheritance tax out of faith because God told me to?????

It's not me that is using faulty logic. If God tells you not to keep any of it for yourself, don't keep any of it for yourself!

And if you have a question about what or how to pay that taxes this world requires, talk to the Lord about that also, because God can speak to you. Though it seems unclear that you believe that?

Have you not read the story in the Bible about a tax that the rulers of this world require Jesus and His disciple to pay? The disciple came to Jesus and asked Him what they should do about it, and Jesus told the disciple what to do and where to get the money.

So the disciple of the Lord turn to Him expecting Him to have that answers, and He does. But some don't believe God exists as the Great I Am, and so assume that He won't talk to them and won't answer them.

So it is not my faith (assumption that He is there) that is faulty, but people's lack of faith (an assumption that He is not there) that is faulty.

So people on this thread write things like 'I decided 2 tithe' instead of 'God told me to give', and they write, 'Back to the Bible', instead of 'Back to God' when they are looking for answers. It becomes 'read, read, read, and text, text, text' instead of 'hear, hear, hear, and listen, listen, listen' like what they read in the text told them to do. They do that and can't even be made to understand that they are indeed searching the Scriptures thinking in them they have life, instead of turning to Jesus Christ so that they might have life.

 

[Frogster]

These three simple questions, with all due respect, prove you wrong, unless you think one is justified by law, because HE THINKS he is, one is not under wrath, because HE THINKS, he is not, and all of the clear objective text used in Galatians, is somehow not clear objective truth for us also. So you are forced to agree with the obvious incorrect assumptions of some noted here, or admit that my point is correct, sorry, but tis truethhhh…God bless, frog.





#1 Is any man justified by law, even though he may think he is, in his subjective mind, contrary to the clear objective text?


#2 Were the verses Paul held up, as truth, still objective truth for you or anyone else?


#3 Is the world under wrath, as the objective text says, Rom 1:18, even though they don’t know it, or agree with it?

 

[GaryArnold]

I guess K2K not only hears what God is saying to him, but he must have also heard what God said to Abram. Amazing! And K2K ignores that during the days of Abram it was custom and/or law of the land to give a tenth of war spoils to the king. And K2K still hasn't answered my question as to why would God tell Abram to give a tenth of the spoils when under the law God wanted only a fraction of a tenth of war spoils (Numbers 31).

K2K appears to be in the Twilight Zone.

 

[Messy]

Funny thing is, I read a site of Messianic Jews, who know the law and they say it's unbiblical the way churches teach tithing. They say exactly the same thing.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I quoted scripture which tells us to take care of our family first, because if we give first and then don't have enough left over, we are worse than a non-believer. If God, through His Spirit, tells us to do something different, we should always obey His voice. However, we must be sure it is God and not something else.

This is beyond the thinking of those who have been indoctrinated into extreme teachings such as the one called "sacrificial giving." The emotional appeal from such nonsense is generally stronger than a desire to remain consistent with the scriptures.

You're probably wasting your time trying to repeat and clarify. Some people have a strange fascination with refusing to accept clarifications offered. Some seem to have nothing better to do with their time than to harangue on a point, which is nothing more than a ploy to keep the discussion from progressing forward. (shrug) Sometimes ya just gotta walk away and find someone who's willing to engage intelligent conversation.

Keep up the good work, Gary.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

She gave everything she had to live on.

Where does scripture say that giving the last of all the money she had translates into her allegedly having no food in the pots and cupboards at her home, or that she had no family living and caring for her and her needs?

Generally speaking, what that widow did had NOTHING to do with tithing. She was not required to tithe according to the Law so long as she owned no producing lands, orchards, vineyards, flocks or herds. So what, may I ask, is your point?

Are you not aware of the culture you're talking about? The poor were taken care of, really? She was a poor widow who gave everything, but according to you, she didn't really because she was taken care of. Sorry, nothing in the story of culture backs your understanding of that.

Then you have gaps in your knowledge of scripture. The tithe also took care of the widows, orphans, and even the strangers in the land. (Deut. 14:29).

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Reading and hearing are not the same thing!!!

You can say that again. One is bound to HEAR from pulpits many false teachings that don't line up with what one can READ in scripture for himself.

BTW

 

[Always in His Presence]

35 days. 867 post and no one has figured out that no bodies mind is being changed.

 

[Faulty]

35 days. 867 post and no one has figured out that no bodies mind is being changed.

Would that include you?

 

[GaryArnold]

35 days. 867 post and no one has figured out that no bodies mind is being changed.

You'd be surprised how many minds have been changed. Not everyone who reads these blogs writes on them.

I get email quite often from those who read the blogs and forums I participate on, then do a search for material I have written, then tell me how much they have learned from my comments and written material.

 

[Messy]

Where does scripture say that giving the last of all the money she had translates into her allegedly having no food in the pots and cupboards at her home, or that she had no family living and caring for her and her needs?

Generally speaking, what that widow did had NOTHING to do with tithing. She was not required to tithe according to the Law so long as she owned no producing lands, orchards, vineyards, flocks or herds. So what, may I ask, is your point?



Then you have gaps in your knowledge of scripture. The tithe also took care of the widows, orphans, and even the strangers in the land. (Deut. 14:29).

BTW

The widow with Elijah gave oil, food. That one with Elisha poored the oil into empty vessels to pay off her debt. Oil, food, spiritual food for the spiritually hungry. That's the way to give and to get out of debt.

 

[Messy]

35 days. 867 post and no one has figured out that no bodies mind is being changed.

My mind is changed. Giving 10 % doesn't have to change, just our minds renewed by God's Word.

 

[New_Wineskin]

35 days. 867 post and no one has figured out that no bodies mind is being changed.

I would be surprised if any of the nearly 50 posters on this thread thought that any of the other posters would be swayed from their position . It is an old discussion in an old forum .

 

[BeforeThereWas]

35 days. 867 post and no one has figured out that no bodies mind is being changed.

What that means is that:

* Some accept what scripture actually says

* Some inject into scripture what isn't there, and believe it is

* Some are mere products of what they're taught from pulpits, and don't care what scripture teaches, and thus make no attempt to educate themselves

* Some have nothing better to do with their time but to post pointless hit-n-run ditties that contribute nothing at all to the discussion

If you're bored here, then there are lots of other threads you can practice your trade.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I would be surprised if any of the nearly 50 posters on this thread thought that any of the other posters would be swayed from their position . It is an old discussion in an old forum .

Very true indeed. Gary said it well when he stated that many silent readers absorb what's being said.

More importantly, some pray about what they've read and receive direction from the Most High as to what He wants them to do.

Others think through it all on the level of emotions, which potentially leads to great error.

I'm confident scriptures say what they mean.

I'm also confident the Lord doesn't need me to join the numbers of those who subjectively draw lines of parallel between:

A) the Law and the Church, and/or

B) tithes Abraham never gave and the Church, and/or

c) the bad example of tithes we don't even know for sure Jacob ever really gave as promised and the Church,

as battering rams to get people to support hirelings, dead buildings and busy-body programs with what should meet needs first and foremost before supporting the many luxuries churchianity people lavish back upon themselves as a matter of routine.

The fleshly love people have for their buildings and programs will almost always win the day for them, so it comes as no surprise those people remain unconvinced. There's nothing new under the sun, as is written.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Let's not forget the gift of discernment - it is given for a reason.

Regards,

Mike

Good point, Mike. Discernment is important.

Additionally, the scriptures give us no reason to even suspect the Lord will fault any man who turns to the written word of God as the definitive acid test for those things one may think he or she discerns or thinks is the voice of the Lord.

I've heard people declare their deepest convictions from discernment and what they thought they were hearing from the Lord things that violated scripture in more than one point.

Where it's true the Lord may instruct one or two to do what is otherwise unscriptural, the modern and historic frequency of violations is reason enough to seriously doubt most of the testimony that runs counter to clear revelations and examples within scripture.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I was simply posting what the Scripture said, although you appear to be wanting to add more to it.

Nope. I wasn't adding anything. I was just curious how we can know what isn't stated. You even questioned that widows were taken care of, which they were. The temple's storehouse was available for them to at least have food. It's likely she also had offspring to care for her need of shelter, unless she were baren, which is nowhere stated.

So, basically, what I asked was simply how anyone can know that she had no other family or source of support upon which and whom she could rely. She had no more money to her name to live on, but that doesn't demand that she had no other family to provide for her needs. Besides, the storehouse at the temple was available to her as well, as is stated in scripture.

Just wanted to clarify.

BTW

 

[probinson]

So, basically, what I asked was simply how anyone can know that she had no other family or source of support upon which and whom she could rely....

Mark 12:42-44 (KJV)
And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury. For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

Mark 12:42-44 (NIV)
But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents. Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”

Mark 12:42-44 (AMP)
And a widow who was poverty-stricken came and put in two copper mites [the smallest of coins], which together make half of a cent. And He called His disciples [to Him] and said to them, Truly and surely I tell you, this widow, [she who is] poverty-stricken, has put in more than all those contributing to the treasury. For they all threw in out of their abundance; but she, out of her deep poverty, has put in everything that she had—[even] all she had on which to live.
​

This is Jesus speaking, so it's a pretty safe bet that He knew what He was talking about when He said that she gave all she had to live on. I think I'll take His Word for it.

 

[Maranatha27]

I have faithfully tithed for as long as i can remember, God has blessed me in my finances because of this. I have been able to buy a home, a car that needs minimal maintenace, bills paid in full all with an average job. I stick to around 10% of my gross income as a rule. Its a principle that works.

 

[Frogster]

I have faithfully tithed for as long as i can remember, God has blessed me in my finances because of this. I have been able to buy a home, a car that needs minimal maintenace, bills paid in full all with an average job. I stick to around 10% of my gross income as a rule. Its a principle that works.

there are non tithers who gained financially also.