To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!

[Frogster]

That's why Jesus condemned the lady who gave out of her need?

Sowing and reaping is still a kingdom principle.

i just wish the lady was quoted at preachers who love to quote that, but don't do it.

 

[Frogster]

That's what I'm trying to say. You can't harmonize what you believe those scriptures are saying with God telling you to give first before taking care of your family.



The key word here is first. You said this (emphasis added);

"...Using the above principles, the New Testament makes it clear that we are to use the FIRST of our income to take care of ourselves and our family..."
​

You based this statement on what you say 2 Timothy 2:6 and 1 Timothy 5:8 are saying. But then you say that God might tell you to give before you take care of your family. This is contradictory to what you are saying these scriptures mean.

Whether God knows that you'll have money tomorrow is irrelevant to the point that if in fact scripture is saying what you claim in the statement above, for God to tell you to give first instead of taking care of ourselves and our family first then He is telling you to do something contrary to scripture.



Well, you've moved the goalposts from using the first of our income to take care of ourselves and our family to making sure you can provide for your family at some point in the immediate future. But no matter which way you slice it, this is not using the first of your income to take care of your family, which is what you said the scripture directs.

i confirmed 1 tim 5:8, Paul said give out of their extra in 1 cor 16:2, he spoke of income, so he understanding that they worked, and had smething they had to do with the first part, of their incomes, which was not the extra he spoke of. Family obligations. How am I wrong?

 

[Frogster]

gee..i guess from now on, at least we won't have to hear about how God wants Christians to be rich, because after all, we got the widow giving all, so we must follow her example, no hoarding, no mansions, we all are to live poor.

 

[probinson]

Yeah....whatever..... Go ahead and think what you want, which is what you'll do anyway.

For some crazy reason, I listen to what people say, and I have this strange and bizarre notion that the words people choose to use have significance.

I already explained it to you, and your lack of acceptance leads only to the fact that you're just not worth the typing time.

Well that's just not true. Look at all the "typing time" you just expended typing a screed about how "narcicistic" [sic] I am.

But you didn't really explain anything. You've simply backtracked on what you said and offered no further explanation as to why. I'd be open to hearing any type of "clarification" as to why you would choose to use such vivid imagery and/or hearing what you really think is the outcome of "inappropriate giving".

Your seemingly narcicistic ploys won't work on me. Most people simply accept the clarifications offered, but you have something else going on in your mind than the reality of what you've been told. Demons behind every door and around every corner is a state of mind I choose not to play with in the sand box.

I don't know what color the sky is in your world, but it isn't the same color of what's actually shining from above for the rest of us.

Dude. You're really bad at this.

First you wrongly deduced that I must have been abused as a child, now you think I see demons behind every door. You clearly have an incredible lack of perception when it comes to people, because if you actually knew me, you'd realize just how far off base you actually are.

But if this is the only way you know how to communicate, by demonizing those people who challenge you, then it's probably just as well that you go talk to someone else.

 

[Frogster]

For some crazy reason, I listen to what people say, and I have this strange and bizarre notion that the words people choose to use have significance.



Well that's just not true. Look at all the "typing time" you just expended typing a screed about how "narcicistic" [sic] I am.

But you didn't really explain anything. You've simply backtracked on what you said and offered no further explanation as to why. I'd be open to hearing any type of "clarification" as to why you would choose to use such vivid imagery and/or hearing what you really think is the outcome of "inappropriate giving".



Dude. You're really bad at this.

First you wrongly deduced that I must have been abused as a child, now you think I see demons behind every door. You clearly have an incredible lack of perception when it comes to people, because if you actually knew me, you'd realize just how far off base you actually are.

But if this is the only way you know how to communicate, by demonizing those people who challenge you, then it's probably just as well that you go talk to someone else.

simple question, he says give out of their extra in 16:2, so what was to be done with the first primary part of their income?

 

[K2K]

IF, please note I am using the word IF - IF God tells you to do something that seems to go against scripture, just maybe you misunderstood the scripture, OR just maybe God isn't telling you to go against the scriptures BECAUSE GOD KNOWS THE FUTURE.

I am leaving the door open that maybe God knows that tomorrow you won't be so poor, so that today you really can afford to give something because tomorrow you will have the funds to take care of your family.

But because we know the scriptures don't lie, IF you think God told you to give even though you don't believe you can afford it and still support your family, and you go ahead and give, and it turns out you don't have the funds to support your family, you obviously heard something OTHER THAN His Spirit. I see this all the time. People hear the pastor and think God is telling them to give, and then the power is shut off, or they can't pay their rent, etc. etc. etc. Obviously the pastor planted the idea in their head, NOT God.

Can you ask God and get wisdom from Him??

Or is that an "IF" in your oppion?


What we know is that God doesn't lie and inspired the Scriptures. We also know that only God has the correct interpretation!!!!

So you say "we know the scriptures don't lie" because you don't ask God and listen to Him!! It clearly shows, otherwise you would have said "We know that God doesn't lie". That my friend is what the Scriptures say.

So you are leaning on your own understanding of the Scriptures, which is clearly evident by what you write. And you write about what you do.

You say "If" God might talk to me. But the Scriptures explain that His sheep hear His voice, and they follow Him (note: following the scriptures is not the same thing as following Him) because they know His voice.

The Scriptures are not His voice, but His book. So God talks to you and you need to listen. We are told to test the spirits, and John explain clearly how (see 1 Jn 4:1-3). So have you ever ask the voice talking to you to tell you "Jesus Christ came in the flesh", or are you testing the spirit by leaning on your own understanding of the Bible.

The Lord once told me that there are 2 mistakes that people make. The first is to not believe the Bible, and the second is to not think the Bible is right.

So some people say that there is no God and don't believe the Bible. Then there are others that say there is a God and believe the Bible, but they don't think the Bible is right, because the Bible tells them to seek the voice of God and His instructions and do not lean on your own understanding.

So you should take all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ, just like Paul explained he did. How much you should give, and when, and where, and in what form, all needs to involve a conversation with the Lord.

Jesus explained that all He did, including every word that He spoke, was according to what the Father told Him. That is why He is called the Word of God. He said that He and the Father would make their abode in us believers.

Yet He told the Jews, "You search the Scriptures thinking in them you have eternal life and it is these that testify about Me and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. (Jn 5:39)

When you write things like "we know the scriptures don't lie", instead of we know that God does not lie, like is written in the scriptures (Titus 1:2), it is because you are searching the scriptures for eternal life instead of turning to Jesus for eternal life.

This also show when you write "IF you think God told you" -- of course God tells people!!! They might want to test the spirits, but you don't do that by leaning on your own understanding either, you do it as God instructed in the Scritpures.

So just like there were followers of Jesus and Jews who searched the Scriptures, there are two sides of this issue. Both sides read and study the Scriptures. One side because God teaches them using the Scriptures, and they follow His voice. They know the God does not lie. Then there is the other side that is searching the Scriptures thinking in them they have eternal life, and they give 10% as a rule (Law) and always give it to the church and say that it always goes to the church (not God), and they clearly don't take every thought captive to Jesus Christ but just as clearly follow a set of rules (the Law)

Now I have heard the Lord (to whom I have given all) tell me to give 10% to the church for a season, and I have heard Him (whose first words to me were "Read Your Bible") tell me to take all I had - open a Christian Book Store - then give it to a church, and I have heard Him tell me to take 10% and give it to the Wild Animal Park because He explained that the Earth and all that is in it belongs to Him.

So I gave all to God and He tells me where He wants is to go. He is Lord of my life. But others give to the church and are relying on the Scriptures to save them. They say "If" God might talk to you. -- And I can spell it out to them, but they still don't want to turn to the Lord and start living a life lead by Jesus Christ and His instructions to them.

That would obviously mean they would have to give all to Him, but they want to keep their own ways and think that perhaps following their understanding of the Scriptures (which would mean only giving up 10%) could still save them.

My advice my friends is to quit saying "If" when it comes to believing in God. Isn't He standing there just waiting for you to listen to Him???

So you say "If" He would talk to us, and He says "If" they only would!!

I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. [Rev 3:19]

It would sure be a lot nicer "If" those posting on this site "were" hearing Him.

All you have is due the Lord. Perhaps He will only ask 10% of it given, but you must first give it all to Him, because it is written in the Law

YOU SHAL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.

So where does saying you have to make a rule of giving 10% come in?

It comes from following the Law that God passed down through Moses to people that were unwilling to listen to Him. Abraham follow the voice of the Lord, and didn't even have the Scritpures, and Abraham gave 10% once, not as a rule. But Abraham had also took all he had and followed the Lord by listening to His voice. So do like Abraham!!

 

[GaryArnold]

God speaks to me often and I hear His voice. I am not poor. So I use the IF to leave the door open for others who might or might not hear His voice.

The scriptures are very clear to me. We are to support our family FIRST, before we give to others. And CERTAINLY before we give to support a corporation doing business as a church.

I can see there is no point in me going on with this topic because some of you can't grasp what I am writing. That explains to me why you also don't grasp what the scriptures say. I have been where you are, but I am thankful God has brought me out of that trap.

May God Bless each and every one of you.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I don't know where that money went. Why were the greedy pharisees so rich?

The flesh.

The sons of Eli took the offerings for themselves. That's why people despised the offering to the Lord.

That was good enough reason for the people who were required to hand over a tithe to the Levites stopped giving it. Enabling the corruption by continuing to feed its appetite lends ample reason to stop handing it over altogether. I don't blame them for doing so.

Malachi was scolding the Levites and the priests, not the people who had stopped handing over what was owed to a system not corrupted by greedy men.

The only thing the Lord said through Malachi to the givers is to continue doing as the Law commands, and the windows of Heaven will be opened in order that blessings may be poured out upon them....not us today, but those people to whom He was speaking through the prophet.

If someone gives to a ministry and it is wrongly used, God will deal with them. That doesn't say anything about the giver.

Oh, but that's not an entirely true statement.

I've heard this before from preachers...about how the giver is not responsible for what's done with their giving. That clearly is not true in all cases.

The giver is clearly responsibile for knowingly supporting something that's doing such things as absorbing the majority of the primary giving for its own expenditures, and demanding that giving to them is synonymous with giving to God. That places the initial blame SQUARELY on the shoulders of the "givers."

There was a thread on a Dutch christian forum about pastors in the USA getting 200.000 a year. It's good that you can't read Dutch. There was one christian who said it was normal.

Church organizations are physical business entities, not spirital entities. Spiritual people may attend and support institutionalized religion, but that doesn't make church organizations any more biblical and spiritual than the trees growing in my front yard, under which I can hold a religious service.

The men whom the people of a religious church organization hire are entitled to make whatever the people are willing to pay such hirelings, so I fail to understand why anyone would be concerned about what those men make. The function they serve as CEOs over a religious institution isn't one found in scripture, so argument against their income is mostly from silence. They have their reward here on earth.

The problems are the teachings eminating from most of those organizations, their practices, and their people's blind acceptance of those teachings and practices. Utilizing only the leftovers (from what the givers personally benefit) for meeting needs clearly violates the spirit and exmaples portrayed within the NT Church.

BTW

 

[Messy]

gee..i guess from now on, at least we won't have to hear about how God wants Christians to be rich, because after all, we got the widow giving all, so we must follow her example, no hoarding, no mansions, we all are to live poor.

The other widow got enough after she gave Elija first. But Elija also didn't have anything at that time.
1 Timothy 6:8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.
I always thought it said a house too, but it doesn't. I think they just stayed with someone with all that travelling. Next time there's a guest speaker, don't take an offering for the plain and the hotel, just take him in your house and give him some food, that's what the widow did.
Another text about widows, I still doubt if that poor widow was taken care of, why didn't she have so much then?
Beware of the scribes, .... who devour widows’ houses

 

[Messy]

But that's not an entirely true statement.

I've heard this before from preachers...about how the giver is not responsible for what's done with their giving. That clearly is not true in all cases.

The giver is clearly responsibile for knowingly supporting something that's doing such things as absorbing the majority of the primary giving for its own expenditures, and demanding that giving to them is synonymous with giving to God. That places the initial blame SQUARELY on the shoulders of the "givers."

I meant if they don't know it or see it. But if people are mislead by a leader, you can't say it's initially their fault.

 

[K2K]

God speaks to me often and I hear His voice. I am not poor. So I use the IF to leave the door open for others who might or might not hear His voice.

The scriptures are very clear to me. We are to support our family FIRST, before we give to others. And CERTAINLY before we give to support a corporation doing business as a church.

I can see there is no point in me going on with this topic because some of you can't grasp what I am writing. That explains to me why you also don't grasp what the scriptures say. I have been where you are, but I am thankful God has brought me out of that trap.

May God Bless each and every one of you.

The scriptures don't say, the Lord says!!

It is not us that have a clear understanding of the scriptures, but rather it is God who has that clear understanding. This is explained in the scriptures. They explain that God has the correct understanding, so we need to ask the Lord. It is explained that His thoughts are not our thoughts, so we need to practice hearing with faith.

The Galations heard from the Lord but went back to following the Law, and don't we read about that in the scriptures?

So we are warned in the scriptures not to do that, but we as people tend to blow in the wind spiritually speaking. We get into pride and start telling ourselves that we have a clear understanding of the Scriptures, and conclude that we no longer need God's instruction.

Gal 3:2 this is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

So the Galatians had received the Spirit, and they heard by faith, and then went away from that back to works of the Law. Why did they do that? Wasn't it because they felt they had a clear understanding of the scriptures?

Everything is being set at the feet of the Son. And we need to sit everything we are and have at His feet also. If you have done that, then don't you now have to ask Him what He wants done with it?

So ask Him!!!

And if He tells you to give 10% each week to the church, that sounds great. But He only once had Abram give 10% and that not to the church but to a preist and not a preist at a church!! He told one man to give all he had to the poor, so perhaps that is what He will ask you.

I don't know exactly what He will personally tell you, but living by His voice is different than living by a set of rules!! The rules were given to those people of God who said, "Let not God talk to us". Don't be like that, and once hearing from Him, don't go back to that.

All I am saying is; ask Him and listen to what He tells you!!

That is living through a relationship with Him. Following a set rules is not the same thing!!

 

[Frogster]

The scriptures don't say, the Lord says!!

It is not us that have a clear understanding of the scriptures, but rather it is God who has that clear understanding. This is explained in the scriptures. They explain that God has the correct understanding, so we need to ask the Lord. It is explained that His thoughts are not our thoughts, so we need to practice hearing with faith.

The Galations heard from the Lord but went back to following the Law, and don't we read about that in the scriptures?

So we are warned in the scriptures not to do that, but we as people tend to blow in the wind spiritually speaking. We get into pride and start telling ourselves that we have a clear understanding of the Scriptures, and conclude that we no longer need God's instruction.

Gal 3:2 this is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

So the Galatians had received the Spirit, and they heard by faith, and then went away from that back to works of the Law. Why did they do that? Wasn't it because they felt they had a clear understanding of the scriptures?

Everything is being set at the feet of the Son. And we need to sit everything we are and have at His feet also. If you have done that, then don't you now have to ask Him what He wants done with it?

So ask Him!!!

And if He tells you to give 10% each week to the church, that sounds great. But He only once had Abram give 10% and that not to the church but to a preist and not a preist at a church!! He told one man to give all he had to the poor, so perhaps that is what He will ask you.

I don't know exactly what He will personally tell you, but living by His voice is different than living by a set of rules!! The rules were given to those people of God who said, "Let not God talk to us". Don't be like that, and once hearing from Him, don't go back to that.

All I am saying is; ask Him and listen to what He tells you!!

That is living through a relationship with Him. Following a set rules is not the same thing!!

u forget that paul used the scriptures to get the galatians back on track.

A jeremiah refernce.

1:15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born,[d] and who called me by his grace,

here he uses psalm 143.

2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.


here he no doubt talked about the temple sacrifices.

3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.



gen 15:6

Gal 3:6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?



Gen 12:3

Gal 3:88 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify[c] the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”


Deut 27:26


10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”


Hab 2:4

3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”




Lev 18:5


3:12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”




Deu 21:23

3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—



Joel

3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.



numerous citations could be used here, see rom 3:10-18 and more

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

A classic OT quote.

3:20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.



Genesis

4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman.

Is 54:1

27 For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more



two more fron genesis


4:29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”


anyway..there might be more, just sayin..thanks, frog.

 

[K2K]

u forget that paul used the scriptures to get the galatians back on track.

No I didn't forget. The scriptures are good for reproof. I did use one, and I appriciate all the additional reproof you added. Thanks

 

[Frogster]

thanks, yep..just showing that the text and Spirit are 1.

 

[K2K]

thanks, yep..just showing that the text and Spirit are 1.

This isn't quite right. It is not Father, Son, Spirit, and Holy text!

The Bible is from God, but is not God. The Bible is good for study, reproof, training, etc.. but it is not God but rather from God. The Bible can show you the way to salvation, but God saves.

We might teach the Bible, but we don't preach the Bible. We are telling people about Jesus Christ, and that they too can get to know Him. If my focus changes to saying the Bible is one with God, then people have a right to expect their knowing the Bible should save them, but Jesus explained that they search the Scriptures thinking in them they have life instead of coming to Him.

Paul and others God used to write the Scriptures often reffered back to the Scriptures as proof for what they were saying. Yet where in the Bible to you see old Scriptures written word for word, over and over with Chapter and verse number attached?

So perhaps I needed to add chapter and verse to my reference about Jesus explaining that they searched the Scriptures thinking in them they had eternal life, but perhaps my audiance show have already known that?
Perhaps 20 Scriptures printed in a row is the way to go, or perhaps we all read them and should know that it is not Father, Son, Spirit, and Holy Scriptures. God is One, but the Scriptures are not God! They are writtings God inspired and are able to lead you to God, but are not God. Let us not make them so.

Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

Preaching that the Scriptures are God is preaching another gospel, though the Scriptures are not another gospel. So evil spirit (our battle is with powers and principalities) want to distort the gospel of Christ. One way to distort the gospel of Christ is to give people the impression that knowing the Scriptures gives them salvation, instead of knowing Christ. That is what happened to the Galatians, and why they turned back from hearing with faith to works of the law. They were given the impresion that the Scriptures are God, and not that the Scriptures are trying to tell us to seek God.

 

[Frogster]

This isn't quite right. It is not Father, Son, Spirit, and Holy text!

The Bible is from God, but is not God. The Bible is good for study, reproof, training, etc.. but it is not God but rather from God. The Bible can show you the way to salvation, but God saves.

We might teach the Bible, but we don't preach the Bible. We are telling people about Jesus Christ, and that they too can get to know Him. If my focus changes to saying the Bible is one with God, then people have a right to expect their knowing the Bible should save them, but Jesus explained that they search the Scriptures thinking in them they have life instead of coming to Him.

Paul and others God used to write the Scriptures often reffered back to the Scriptures as proof for what they were saying. Yet where in the Bible to you see old Scriptures written word for word, over and over with Chapter and verse number attached?

So perhaps I needed to add chapter and verse to my reference about Jesus explaining that they searched the Scriptures thinking in them they had eternal life, but perhaps my audiance show have already known that?
Perhaps 20 Scriptures printed in a row is the way to go, or perhaps we all read them and should know that it is not Father, Son, Spirit, and Holy Scriptures. God is One, but the Scriptures are not God! They are writtings God inspired and are able to lead you to God, but are not God. Let us not make them so.

Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

Preaching that the Scriptures are God is preaching another gospel, though the Scriptures are not another gospel. So evil spirit (our battle is with powers and principalities) want to distort the gospel of Christ. One way to distort the gospel of Christ is to give people the impression that knowing the Scriptures gives them salvation, instead of knowing Christ. That is what happened to the Galatians, and why they turned back from hearing with faith to works of the law. They were given the impresion that the Scriptures are God, and not that the Scriptures are trying to tell us to seek God.

give me credit please. I know God is not on india paper with ink, between leather, or fake leather covers.

But bottom line, text is text, and the Spirit bears witness with text.

u mentioned the getting of the Spirit in Gal 3 like that was it, but I handily showed text used from paul, and the promised Spirit is outta the text.

alrighty now....

 

[Frogster]

anywhooo lets keep the thread on tithing.

 

[MikeBigg]

anywhooo lets keep the thread on tithing.

Is there anything more to say on tithing?

84 pages of posts - I think everyone has posted their positions. Some have reviewed their initial understanding and stayed with it, some have reviewed and changed, some have become much firmer in their position.

The discussion bits of this thread have been good - I for one have never looked at the arguments against tithing, just accepted the biblical basis as presented to me by the church I was in when I first became a Christian - the personal attacks which always seem to occur when two opposing viewpoints are expressed have not been good.

Mike

 

[Frogster]

Is there anything more to say on tithing?

84 pages of posts - I think everyone has posted their positions. Some have reviewed their initial understanding and stayed with it, some have reviewed and changed, some have become much firmer in their position.

The discussion bits of this thread have been good - I for one have never looked at the arguments against tithing, just accepted the biblical basis as presented to me by the church I was in when I first became a Christian - the personal attacks which always seem to occur when two opposing viewpoints are expressed have not been good.

Mike

I understand.

Yes, alot had been said, I meant it to say, more of a stay on the issue kinda thing, not to go off on a Spirit vs text type of discussion.

Be blessed, frog.

 

[K2K]

give me credit please. I know God is not on india paper with ink, between leather, or fake leather covers.

But bottom line, text is text, and the Spirit bears witness with text.

u mentioned the getting of the Spirit in Gal 3 like that was it, but I handily showed text used from paul, and the promised Spirit is outta the text.

alrighty now....

Yeah - I didn't think you thought God was ink on paper, but the bottom line is not "text is text, and the Spirit give witness to Jesus Christ as the text does also. So you seem to be making it about the text, where both the text and the Spirit make it about Jesus Christ. Perhaps I am understanding you wrong, but you might want to test it.

1 Jn 4:1,2 Beloved, do not believe very spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God... By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh in from God.

Saying the text is one with God is not the same. Saying the promis is outta the text and not from God is not the same. Jesus explained that He came down from heaven, not out of the text.

Jesus told the Jews, "You search the Scriptures thinking in them you have eternal life, it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life" (Jn 5:39)

Studying the Bible is good, but if we start think it is our studying the Scriptures that gives us life, and stop turning to our Lord Jesus Christ, then we have a problem!!

The Spirit once put it to me like this, "WE DO NOT USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES, WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD."

So we are not promoting the text, but using the text to promote the Lord.

Those writing the Bible did not right prior scriptures verse after verse but told us about the Lord Jesus Christ and referenced a prior scriptures. And their reference was usually made with the understanding that we either knew the prior scriptures or could look it up. That is why we tend to have all these little references in the margins of out Bibles about where to look for a corresponding verse, but it usually doesn't correspond word for word.

So I think you for all the scriptures showing that it is not about following the Lord and not following the Law, but if they turn to the Lord and listen to Him, won't that become obvious to them?

So thoses following the Law will find their verses, and you will find your verses, but we all need to find the Lord!!