To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!

[ByronArn]

Is the tithe applicable to the New Covenant? Should Christians give 10% of their income to their church?

Or should we just give whatever is placed upon our hearts for that week, whether that be 7% or 35%?

 

[Faulty]

Is the tithe applicable to the New Covenant? Should Christians give 10% of their income to their church?

No.

Or should we just give whatever is placed upon our hearts for that week, whether that be 7% or 35%?

Yes.

 

[ByronArn]

My view is that the tithe was a part of the Old Covenant, much like sacrifices and festivals, that does not apply to Christians. It was given to the Children of Israel to support the Levitical priesthood.

We should give to our church whatever we are led to give, as the tithe is nowhere commanded of Christians in the New Testament.

 

[Frogster]

My view is that the tithe was a part of the Old Covenant, much like sacrifices and festivals, that does not apply to Christians. It was given to the Children of Israel to support the Levitical priesthood.

We should give to our church whatever we are led to give, as the tithe is nowhere commanded of Christians in the New Testament.

And when paul talked the most about money, in 2 Cor 8-9, it wasn't even for his ministry, it was for the poor church in jerusalem, 8:4, 9:1, 9:12, the saints.

And in 2 Cor 8:8, he even said, not by command.

 

[DMW]

This debate will go no where fast, but it's always worth pointing out that the principle of tithes and first fruits preceded the law, and Abraham, the father of faith paid tithes.
Hebrews 7:8 lets us know that Jesus still receives tithes.
It's the wisdom of the internet that tithing is bondage from the law. But its a blessing intended for the church.

 

[Frogster]

This debate will go no where fast, but it's always worth pointing out that the principle of tithes and first fruits preceded the law, and Abraham, the father of faith paid tithes.
Hebrews 7:8 lets us know that Jesus still receives tithes.
It's the wisdom of the internet that tithing is bondage from the law. But its a blessing intended for the church.

Abraham gave once, in a 175 year lifespan, and it was not even his money, it was from a slaughter of kings.

besides, u can't ignore history, it became a law for the levites, it says so in heb 7:5, that priesthood is over, and those ordinances.

hebrews was just showing subordination to melchizedek, the lesser is blessed by the greater 7:7, even the mighty Abraham tithed to Mel 7:4, it was just showing how great mel was, it was not a teaching about how the church tithes.

 

[ByronArn]

This debate will go no where fast, but it's always worth pointing out that the principle of tithes and first fruits preceded the law, and Abraham, the father of faith paid tithes.
Hebrews 7:8 lets us know that Jesus still receives tithes.
It's the wisdom of the internet that tithing is bondage from the law. But its a blessing intended for the church.

Well, let's look at the story you mentioned. I will quote some notes I found on another site (I will post the source afterward):

Gen 14:11-24 Abrams nephew Lot was carried off with his possessions along with the people of Sodom and Gomorrah
Abram rescued Lot and the spoils and the other people .... and was blessed by Melchizedek on his return
Abram gave him a tenth of 'everything' (vs 16 gives the context of 'spoils'). This was NOT something God ever commanded him to do.
NOTE As Abram was on a war/rescue mission he did not have any of his own wealth with him. Hebrews 7:5 makes it clear that all he gave was a tenth of the PLUNDER. He therefore gave only of that which was not his own and returned the rest to the King of Sodom to give to Lot and those it was stolen from!
NOTE The bible does not say that Abram/Abraham ever ‘tithed’ or ‘gave a tenth’ again ...or EVER gave any of his own wealth!
NOTE Abram was rich long before he encountered Melchizedek (Gen 13:2).....so it was NOT a blessing for tithing
NOTE Abram had not yet believed and been 'credited as righteous' ... and his name was not yet changed to Abraham.
(ie Is this not an illustration of the actions of an 'unrighteous' man?)
NOTE The narative of this event is descriptive and not prescriptive. It is NOT presented as a command or even suggested anywhere in the bible that it is an example of an action which we should follow (all we are to follow is the FAITH of Abraham).
The tenth he gave is not as significant as the remainder he also gave back because Abram says ... in vs 22-23... "I have raised my hand to the LORD, God Most High, the Possessor of heaven and earth, 23 that I will take nothing, from a thread to a sandal strap, and that I will not take anything that is yours, NKJV (This proves that Abraham never took ownership of the plunder!)

THIS EXAMPLE CANNOT LEGITIMATELY BE ARGUED TO CONSTITUTE A PRE-MOSAIC SPIRITUAL PRINCIPLE OR TITHING AS IT IS TAUGHT IN THE CHURCH TODAY (except if we should have a magnificent victory in war and recover spoils from which we freely give 10% to a king and a priest...and then give the remainder back to those it was taken from)


Source: Tithing Truth | Tithing Truth

 

[tturt]

Some things were established in the OT and meant to carry on. Musical instruments aren't mentioned in the NT and we don't have discussions about whether to play them in worship or not.

 

[FlowerGirl18]

Yes, we should give to God. I am completely sure about that. Wasn't Jesus himself looking at how people gave, noticing that poor widow give all she had? That is one proof that even in the New Testament, after God has made a new covenant with us, giving is still important. You can't just go on living however you want, spending all you want to and knowing that God forgives you no matter what if you repent. Yes he does, there's no doubt about that, but it's not like you don't have to obey Him. Yes God has made a new covenant with us by dying for our sins on the cross, but it does NOT mean that the entire Old Testament is somehow canceled. It only means that now, you don't have to obey the Law brought to the people by God through Moses, to be saved. Just think about it. Because there's New Testament... it doesn't mean you don't have to obey the Ten Commandments, does it? Do you say it's ok to murder or to covet what's no yours because it was said in the Old Testament? I don't think so.
Now more on the giving part. I firmly believe there are two parts of that. There's tithing, which is giving God 10 percent of everything you have, and then there is the seed. Which is your freewill offering if you may. It's something that God places on our hearts to give. I believe we should tithe, for the 10 percent of what you own does not belong to you - it is God. Just think about it. The Earth and everything in it belongs to Him. Every gift you have in your life comes from above, from His generous hands. Nothing is yours, but this 10 percent is special. It is something that you use to show God your obedience, humility, and thankfulness for what He is doing in your life. This money is simply not yours. It belongs to the Lord. It is up to you to honor this or not.
Now about the seed that you are planting. It's your freewill offering to God, which can be given to your church or any other ministry/church that God places upon your heart. It's how you honor God and the work He is doing with His people in any given church.
These are simple ways to honor God. These teach you humility, these teach you to say no to some of your own passions, and finally, these help you to find financial favor with the Lord. Many a time in my life I was completely broke but somehow still managed to fulfill my duty to God by tithing and giving, and He has come to my rescue when I thought there was no way out. I am by no means saying God will not uphold you if you do not tithe and/or give, it is just my testimony. God has provided for me miraculously in my life as I tried to stay faithful to him with my finances.
By posting this, I am not forcing my beliefs on anyone. It is up to you how you do this. But it's my testimony and my firm belief. I hope it helps somebody else on here.

 

[jamadan]

Abraham gave once, in a 175 year lifespan, and it was not even his money, it was from a slaughter of kings.

besides, u can't ignore history, it became a law for the levites, it says so in heb 7:5, that priesthood is over, and those ordinances.

hebrews was just showing subordination to melchizedek, the lesser is blessed by the greater 7:7, even the mighty Abraham tithed to Mel 7:4, it was just showing how great mel was, it was not a teaching about how the church tithes.

Thanks for responding, Frogster, saved me the effort. Tithers have no case Scripturally. It only survives because pastors are afraid to teach the truth lest they have less money.

 

[jamadan]

Yes, we should give to God. I am completely sure about that. Wasn't Jesus himself looking at how people gave, noticing that poor widow give all she had? That is one proof that even in the New Testament, after God has made a new covenant with us, giving is still important. You can't just go on living however you want, spending all you want to and knowing that God forgives you no matter what if you repent. Yes he does, there's no doubt about that, but it's not like you don't have to obey Him. Yes God has made a new covenant with us by dying for our sins on the cross, but it does NOT mean that the entire Old Testament is somehow canceled. It only means that now, you don't have to obey the Law brought to the people by God through Moses, to be saved. Just think about it. Because there's New Testament... it doesn't mean you don't have to obey the Ten Commandments, does it? Do you say it's ok to murder or to covet what's no yours because it was said in the Old Testament? I don't think so.
Now more on the giving part. I firmly believe there are two parts of that. There's tithing, which is giving God 10 percent of everything you have, and then there is the seed. Which is your freewill offering if you may. It's something that God places on our hearts to give. I believe we should tithe, for the 10 percent of what you own does not belong to you - it is God. Just think about it. The Earth and everything in it belongs to Him. Every gift you have in your life comes from above, from His generous hands. Nothing is yours, but this 10 percent is special. It is something that you use to show God your obedience, humility, and thankfulness for what He is doing in your life. This money is simply not yours. It belongs to the Lord. It is up to you to honor this or not.
Now about the seed that you are planting. It's your freewill offering to God, which can be given to your church or any other ministry/church that God places upon your heart. It's how you honor God and the work He is doing with His people in any given church.
These are simple ways to honor God. These teach you humility, these teach you to say no to some of your own passions, and finally, these help you to find financial favor with the Lord. Many a time in my life I was completely broke but somehow still managed to fulfill my duty to God by tithing and giving, and He has come to my rescue when I thought there was no way out. I am by no means saying God will not uphold you if you do not tithe and/or give, it is just my testimony. God has provided for me miraculously in my life as I tried to stay faithful to him with my finances.
By posting this, I am not forcing my beliefs on anyone. It is up to you how you do this. But it's my testimony and my firm belief. I hope it helps somebody else on here.

Your understanding of the tithe is very off, even by Old Covenant standards. It was never ever 10% of all your own. If tithers want to teach the Law, they should at least teach it correctly and live by that. Money was never tithed, just crops and animals, what the Lord provides. Abraham never tithed - he gave 10% of the spoils he took when he attacked and killed someone, that's not a tithe. Jesus never tithed or received tithes. The Apostles never tithed or received tithes. The early church never tithed or received tithes.

And it was always 10% of the increase, not all you own. So if you have 100 cattle at the beginning of the year, and they have 30 calves that year and you eat and trade for a series of exchanges of cows during the year ending the year with 120, you would give 2 cows or 10% of the increase. Your method would have them tithing 12 cows, a six fold greater burden than the Lord ever required. Speaking of which, did you know a major portion of the tithe was to be eaten by the family that gave the tithe? That's the truth. So according to the Old Covenant, even if the tithe included monetary income, which it didn't, it would have required the givers of the money to take and use it for whatever they wanted, not give it to the priests. There are so many ways in which modern tithers rip off the flock it's unbelievable.

 

[FlowerGirl18]

Jamadan, I thank you for your post which was meant, or so I hope, to correct me in Christ's love. I appreciate that and I definitely appreciate your opinion.

My understanding might be 'off', but I do that in mere love, caring for God's people and God's church. I don't see any point in judging anyone or anyone's opinion, especially those anointed by God to be pastors and leaders. I don't care if my pastor/leader sins or not, it is their personal problem and responsibility they will be held accountable for. What I consider important is to humbly submit to spiritual authorities and bless them in love. What I am afraid of is, by trying to grow excellent in knowledge, to miss the point of Christianity, which is love.

I am not trying to condemn you or argue your opinion. I just wanted to make my point clear. Lots of love to you in Christ.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Is the tithe applicable to the New Covenant? Should Christians give 10% of their income to their church?

Or should we just give whatever is placed upon our hearts for that week, whether that be 7% or 35%?

These threads become very confusing and heated - even more so when the OP does not provide which definition of "tithe" they are using . There are at least a half a dozen definitions christians use when thinking of a "tithe" . When one person is reading a post with one definition and responds with another , it is difficult many times to understand how the reply deals with the previous post .

With regards to "shoulds" ... there are no shoulds in Christianity except that which the Lord specifically tells His child .

 

[jpcedotal]

Christians should give 10% minimum. The first 10% isn't really giving, it is paying what we owe God. It is only what is given after the 10% that "counts" as true charity. Now, God doesn't need our money...we need to give for personal Christian training.

Does it have to be to a church? No, but it should be given to a Christian organization and the giver should not get ANYTHING in return.

Now the next question is always: Should it be from one's net or gross income? To be safe, use your gross...simple. The reason using your net is more like getting around the 10% is because:
(1) most of us get tax breaks because of charity giving
(2) most claim ZERO or 1 and get a big refund every year. Unless you give 10% of the refund, you are not really giving what is required by God.
(3) other things like insurance child support direct drafts to saving come out...none of these are exempt from the 10%

All in all it comes down to this: Do you trust God to make sure you have exactly what you need to survive and be a light to the world? If you do then the 10% thing is a complete non issue.

Litmus Test: When you set down every week or month and put your bills in order of importance, where does give to God rank? Is it first or is it on the "if I got some left over" list?

I have heard all the arguments against giving 10% and they sound like "I love my money too much" or "I don't fully trust God on my day-to-day activities."

 

[Faulty]

Christians should give 10% minimum. The first 10% isn't really giving, it is paying what we owe God. It is only what is given after the 10% that "counts" as true charity. Now, God doesn't need our money...we need to give for personal Christian training.

Does it have to be to a church? No, but it should be given to a Christian organization and the giver should not get ANYTHING in return.

Now the next question is always: Should it be from one's net or gross income? To be safe, use your gross...simple. The reason using your net is more like getting around the 10% is because:
(1) most of us get tax breaks because of charity giving
(2) most claim ZERO or 1 and get a big refund every year. Unless you give 10% of the refund, you are not really giving what is required by God.
(3) other things like insurance child support direct drafts to saving come out...none of these are exempt from the 10%

All in all it comes down to this: Do you trust God to make sure you have exactly what you need to survive and be a light to the world? If you do then the 10% thing is a complete non issue.

Litmus Test: When you set down every week or month and put your bills in order of importance, where does give to God rank? Is it first or is it on the "if I got some left over" list?

I have heard all the arguments against giving 10% and they sound like "I love my money too much" or "I don't fully trust God on my day-to-day activities."

Well, since the actual command is to give what each has decided in their heart to give, I hope you are doing what you say in your own personal life.

That said, your requirement isn't in scripture, and therefore isn't a command from God, but rather a command from men, should one try to impose it on another then attempt to judge them by it.

 

[jpcedotal]

Well, since the actual command is to give what each has decided in their heart to give, I hope you are doing what you say in your own personal life.

That said, your requirement isn't in scripture, and therefore isn't a command from God, but rather a command from men, should one try to impose it on another then attempt to judge them by it.

I am not judging anybody. I am just laying out the way in my personal walk with God give what is required...by Scripture.

My warning is that most arguments against the 10% has more to do with the love of money or the lack of trust in God taking care of His own than it does about doing what the Good Book says.

Be careful not to judge me

 

[ByronArn]

I have heard all the arguments against giving 10% and they sound like "I love my money too much" or "I don't fully trust God on my day-to-day activities."

Really? That seems kinda harsh and judgemental. Me, I get my scriptural guidance on giving from 2 Corinthians 9:7:

Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. (World English Bible)

It seems to me, after reading this verse, that we are to give whatever the Holy Spirit lays upon our hearts. Sometimes that may be 7% or 35%. Since the New Covenant no where requires 10%, this is the only requirement we are given in the New Covenant.

Here's how I think of it. The tithe of the Old Testament was to support the Levitical priesthood. The Levitical priesthood was a part of the Old Covenant which was done away with at the Cross. Today, we are under a greater law, of cheerful giving guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[jpcedotal]

I am not poor with only 2 bits to my name, which is the case for 95% of Americans...so we are not talking about giving instead of feeding our family...we are talking about giving instead of eating out or that extra trip to Wal-Mart or that cell phone.

 

[jpcedotal]

Really? That seems kinda harsh and judgemental. Me, I get my scriptural guidance on giving from 2 Corinthians 9:7:

Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. (World English Bible)

It seems to me, after reading this verse, that we are to give whatever the Holy Spirit lays upon our hearts. Sometimes that may be 7% or 35%. Since the New Covenant no where requires 10%, this is the only requirement we are given in the New Covenant.

Here's how I think of it. The tithe of the Old Testament was to support the Levitical priesthood. The Levitical priesthood was a part of the Old Covenant which was done away with at the Cross. Today, we are under a greater law, of cheerful giving guided by the Holy Spirit.

I still think the 10% is the minimum and one is not giving to God, but paying what one owes God already.

 

[ByronArn]

These threads become very confusing and heated - even more so when the OP does not provide which definition of "tithe" they are using . There are at least a half a dozen definitions christians use when thinking of a "tithe" .

Really? my apologies. By tithe I meant the giving of 10% of your income to your local church. That is the only definition I have ever heard of the tithe in my entire Christian life.

Would you be so kind as to show me some of the other "half dozen" definitions people use? Thank you.