Controversial Tithing Debate

[TPop]

THIS. If I knew a church or pastor that does this, how much would I be fully invested and all in on supporting them with my tithing. The problem is, they are not like this at all. The pastor(s) and the church(es) I know do not give their time to us (me), do not go out of their way for my welfare, do not teach me, I mean nothing other than "maintenance" which is...just making sure the church is running. I still appreciate their efforts in running the basic systems (worship service, sermons) but outside of maintenance, I experience an incredible lack of support and lack of their caring about us (me) as individuals. I know they aren't superman so I can't expect them to do everything and be perfect, but do I feel like they are someone or something I would be willing to give to even after I wasn't there anymore? No. I wish I could feel that way about someone or some church but they are not doing what I believe a church should be doing or "pastors/leaders/called out ones" should be doing. Just a little effort is all I ask....not for perfection. Just show me that Christ lives in you because if He truly did, you would care about me and love me rather than just see me as a number (to the pastors/churches).

How big is the church? They were all very small in early NT times. I don't agree with 500+ member churches. Certainly not with 1k, 5k, 20k churches.

Small churches have more accountability up and down.

Remember, the deacons, which are those that typically provide support to families, can only do so much. They are not full time counselors. And they are not even good counselors/therapists. If one needs therapy, find a good Christian Social Worker. Avoid church counselors for significant concerns. They do not have the training.

And the church is not just leaders. It is you and others like you. Go give support yourself. To others. In the church. You many find what you need through that process. Or you may just be a blessing and that may be of help.

Peace and Blessings

 

[seeker2122]

How big is the church? They were all very small in early NT times. I don't agree with 500+ member churches. Certainly not with 1k, 5k, 20k churches.

Small churches have more accountability up and down.

Remember, the deacons, which are those that typically provide support to families, can only do so much. They are not full time counselors. And they are not even good counselors/therapists. If one needs therapy, find a good Christian Social Worker. Avoid church counselors for significant concerns. They do not have the training.

And the church is not just leaders. It is you and others like you. Go give support yourself. To others. In the church. You many find what you need through that process. Or you may just be a blessing and that may be of help.

Peace and Blessings

Quite a small church actually. Well, the overseeing church is about 250-300 members but the actual ministry/church I'm apart of is only about 15-25 members and if even such a small group like that is not accountable to each other, then I don't know what the excuse is. I noticed people don't even know each other that well or even knew each other's names! How is that possible in such a small group unless each person is only coming for their own personal agenda and just maintenance. A lot of visitors have come and gone and the few that I spoke with gave feedback confirming what I had noticed which was the group is not very welcoming and nobody talks to them. Don't get me wrong, the people themselves are nice for the most part, but as far as what the church is about and the mission, they don't have one. If you're a small group trying to grow, why aren't you focusing on reaching out to others and making them feel welcomed? It seems they are just content with whoever comes and goes. I tried to encourage the "leaders" this ministry needs a mission statement or vision and not just be complacent with playing Sunday church maintenance. It's fallen into the pattern of the 4Ms. Churches start off with a Mission ---> then Ministry --> then it becomes Maintenance ---> then eventually it becomes a Museum ....this seems to be the trend of a lot of churches these days because they are not a Holy Spirit led church but simply doing their own thing. Sorry if I am harsh and I know how I sound but it frustrates me why churches even exist today if we are failing to be effective and missional led by the HS. If we are just running a business and trying to maintain things to meet man-made goals, then this isn't real church and we are just wasting our time.

 

[seeker2122]

You are trying to be in control. But you are not. So don't try to be. It is wasted energy, anxiety, and emotions. If you don't trust them. Find a new one. If there is no other. Do it anyway. Jesus knows why you do it. If you only do it out of trust in other people, that will Always fail you. That is not what He wants. Trust Him. Grow your support. Abort the worry over what they do with it. It is still accounted to you! They did not steal from you. They steal from Jesus. You do the right thing. Regardless of what others do. You'll be much happier in time that way.

Peace and Blessings

It's definitely true.

 

[TPop]

Quite a small church actually. Well, the overseeing church is about 250-300 members but the actual ministry/church I'm apart of is only about 15-25 members and if even such a small group like that is not accountable to each other, then I don't know what the excuse is. I noticed people don't even know each other that well or even knew each other's names! How is that possible in such a small group unless each person is only coming for their own personal agenda and just maintenance. A lot of visitors have come and gone and the few that I spoke with gave feedback confirming what I had noticed which was the group is not very welcoming and nobody talks to them. Don't get me wrong, the people themselves are nice for the most part, but as far as what the church is about and the mission, they don't have one. If you're a small group trying to grow, why aren't you focusing on reaching out to others and making them feel welcomed? It seems they are just content with whoever comes and goes. I tried to encourage the "leaders" this ministry needs a mission statement or vision and not just be complacent with playing Sunday church maintenance. It's fallen into the pattern of the 4Ms. Churches start off with a Mission ---> then Ministry --> then it becomes Maintenance ---> then eventually it becomes a Museum ....this seems to be the trend of a lot of churches these days because they are not a Holy Spirit led church but simply doing their own thing. Sorry if I am harsh and I know how I sound but it frustrates me why churches even exist today if we are failing to be effective and missional led by the HS. If we are just running a business and trying to maintain things to meet man-made goals, then this isn't real church and we are just wasting our time.

Well. Be careful of your thoughts.

They are not necessarily there to minister to your needs. They have needs of their own. I go to a very good church. The Deacons get together with their assigned families monthly and have dinner. But it's not therapy. It's a friendly dinner and conversation.

We have two services. We go early. Sit in the 2nd row. We are a handful of a few. To be honest. Most people don't want to get that involved with others. It is a lot of work. Especially if you live 20 to 50 miles away, have kids, in sports, and other things.

The church's main reason is the gospel. 2ndary is bearing each other's burdens. But the latter does not mean getting together and hanging out regularly or even at all. It means bringing your trials before the church and asking for prayer. That is what we do on Wednesday nights. All prayer and if time, scriptural and teachings.

People have work, mental health problems, and personal trials we do not even know about. The church itself may not become very friendly. But maybe you find a few. My wife and I invite someone to dinner once a month or two. On holidays we invite people looking for those with no family in town or no family for some reason.

You go out and invite people over for dinner. Make the dinner. Do the prep. Put in the work. Maybe others will then reciprocate. Start something.

Peace and Blessings