To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!

[Frogster]

If you tithe - don't brag about it, don't beat people up with your so called doctrine about it.

However,

If you don't tithe - don't brag about it, don't beat people up with your so called doctrine about it

Be mature enough to state your beliefs and let it rest.

Be loving enough not to cram things down another's throat

Be humble enough to let the Holy Spirit deal with people

yep..if only the tithe teachers did not use fear and guilt, to extract the money, that would be good. The sheep are the ones who get beat up, as people use the beautiful giving of 2 Cor 8-9 about giving to poor people, to get money for themselves, as often alot of them live in mansions......hmmmm..oh well...

 

[haf]

paul working.

2 Cor 6:5, 2 cor 11:23, 11:27, 1 cor 4:12, 1 Cor 9:6, Acts 18, Acts 20, 1 Thess 2, 2 Thess 3.

Paul worked but it is not stated in scripture as a binding law. I don't think there is anything especially holy about ministers working outside the church to support themselves, nor do I think there is anything especially holy about ministers getting paid to be ministers. I think there are good and bad examples of either path.

 

[haf]

Yes there is a blessing for those who give, but not to those who give 10%. According 2 Corinthians 9, those who are blessed are those who give cheerfully, as much as been laid upon their hearts.

My wife and I are pretty poor, as I am in college and only work part time, and she works in education. We generally give around 5% of our income as gifts to the church. This is because if we pay more we will definitely not be able to pay our bills. My last paycheck was a bit more than expected, and the amount laid upon my heart comes out to about 12%. Also, we got an unexpected check in the mail, and the amount laid upon our hearts for this check is right at 10%.

We follow the model of cheerfully giving what the Lord has laid upon our hearts, and God blesses us greatly for it. Not always financially, but financial blessings are the least important kind.

Sounds like you've made conscious decisions after carefully thinking and praying it through. Nothing wrong there, brother.

 

[Frogster]

Paul worked but it is not stated in scripture as a binding law. I don't think there is anything especially holy about ministers working outside the church to support themselves, nor do I think there is anything especially holy about ministers getting paid to be ministers. I think there are good and bad examples of either path.

no, not law, but he told the elders at Ephesus in Acts 20, they should work too, and he said in other passages, for people to imitate him, and he set a really good example.

 

[Frogster]

tithe teachers never say that in 2 cor 8, scripture says, give out of your ABUNDANCE, don't give if you don't have it, and he did not want anyone burdened in 8:12-14...

far cry from the give no matter what teaching. Give out of extra, in other words, if you have it give, not if u don't give.


12 For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have. 13 For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness 14 your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness.

 

[whatfor]

I do not have the answer to this one.
My experience was for one year I tithed 10% before tax, as I still had the same bills , I ended up with $6000 more debt on my credit card.
Maybe I did not give with the right motives, I do not know.
Those who teach tithing seem to get the promised blessings, I know of many, or maybe they manage their money better.

I still give but not a set %, and give my time as well.

I think it is up to the individual or as God leads you.

 

[Strong in Him]

I voted 'other'.
If you really believe that giving 10% of your money is commanded in Scripture; you should do it. If you believe that you are free to decide to give whatever you choose - which might be 10%, or 5%, or 25%; you should do that (2 Cor 9:7). If you believe you should give to the church first, or only, and then give whatever you can to charities; you should do that.

For myself, there is no NT teaching on tithing, and no one has actually explained what is meant by it or how we do it anyway. For example, I spend a lot of money on craft materials, puppets, gospel illusions and so on. Extravagant? Yes, maybe. But I make greetings cards which I make for people who are ill, sad etc or to sell for charity, and all my puppets and Gospel illusions are for my services, all age worship, Messy Church and so on. I do not get paid for being a lay preacher, I do not charge the circuit for any of these things which may benefit others, draw them into the church or help them to understand the Good News a little better, nor do I get a book allowance, or whatever. On top of this I do, or have done, several other things for the church, which had I not, they would have had to pay someone to do.

I am not saying all this to brag in any way, or justify my giving. I think there are many other Christians who also give freely of their time and possessions to the church and to their neighbours. All of this is important and comes very much under the banner of giving. Yet some Christians seem to ignore this kind of giving completely and get hung up on the fact that Christians have to, in their opinion, give 10% of their cash to the church because we all have to tithe.

 

[Frogster]

I do not have the answer to this one.
My experience was for one year I tithed 10% before tax, as I still had the same bills , I ended up with $6000 more debt on my credit card.
Maybe I did not give with the right motives, I do not know.
Those who teach tithing seem to get the promised blessings, I know of many, or maybe they manage their money better.

I still give but not a set %, and give my time as well.

I think it is up to the individual or as God leads you.

yeah, and they keep saying every year, is "your blessing", denying the fact, that in that audience, there are those who did not get 'the blessing' last year, even though they heard the same generic blessing promised to them.

 

[Frogster]

Whatfor, I am sure your heart is just fine, it's not your fault.


they also omit, that just because one gives cash, does not mean a guaranteed material return, here we see that even though the corinthians were going to, and did give, they might still be broke one day, no money return, even though they gave.




Amplified 2 cor 8:14 But to have equality [share and share alike], your surplus over necessity at the present time going to meet their want and to equalize the difference created by it, so that [at some other time] their surplus in turn may be given to supply your want. Thus there may be equality,


NLT14 Right now you have plenty and can help those who are in need. Later, they will have plenty and can share with you when you need it. In this way, things will be equal.

 

[GaryArnold]

Appears that many of you are living under Old Testament laws and rules. Very sad.

OLD TESTAMENT
Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) “Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:”

NEW TESTAMENT
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) “The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.”

1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV) “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”

Using the above principles, the New Testament makes it clear that we are to use the FIRST of our income to take care of ourselves and our family. We are talking about needs, here, not just anything we want. Then we should give generously from what is left.

 

[Svt4Him]

Some food for thought for you as well: they were an agricultural society, so their crops were their income. The implication is still a portion of income. The point of the tithe was to support the priesthood, since they weren't apportioned their own share of land.

As I already indicated, i don't see a commandment to tithe in the new testament, but I do see a promise of blessing that is no where invalidated in scripture.

This is false, as evidenced by the various professions used in building the temple. Not everyone was into agriculture.

As I already indicated, I don't see the current tithe anywhere in the Bible. It was the 3-4 century where the church made it about money. Even then there were abuses and that ordinance was changed.

 

[jamadan]

Jamadan, I thank you for your post which was meant, or so I hope, to correct me in Christ's love. I appreciate that and I definitely appreciate your opinion.

My understanding might be 'off', but I do that in mere love, caring for God's people and God's church. I don't see any point in judging anyone or anyone's opinion, especially those anointed by God to be pastors and leaders. I don't care if my pastor/leader sins or not, it is their personal problem and responsibility they will be held accountable for. What I consider important is to humbly submit to spiritual authorities and bless them in love. What I am afraid of is, by trying to grow excellent in knowledge, to miss the point of Christianity, which is love.

I am not trying to condemn you or argue your opinion. I just wanted to make my point clear. Lots of love to you in Christ.

Hi FlowerGirl,

I appreciate your response and would clarify that in a topic like this, my post was more directed at the purveyors of tithing in general and not you specifically. View what I said like Paul, who addressed the same group of people (the Judaizers) with his rant that concluded with "I wish you would go all the way and emasculate yourselves" The tithers are in the same camp as the circumcision group, teaching from the Law written in stone when the Law written in our hearts is the new Law of the Kingdom. There are so many churches that use this teaching to put burdens of obligation and guilt if they don't comply when they just hope to get by on their monthly social security check - burdens that, once again, far exceed that of the Old Covenant Law which only required the wealthier land holders to tithe from their crops and livestock. The average carpenter and fisherman did not tithe. So when these pastors stand in the pulpit and teach Sunday after Sunday that the reason his poor congregation is poor is because they aren't giving enough, heaping guilt onto them, like coming in on a Sunday to hear a collection agency berate them for not paying their bills, I do indeed get riled up a bit. It's okay to do that, by the way. A shepherd is allowed to get angry when the wolves approach the flock and start picking them off.

 

[jamadan]

Some food for thought for you as well: they were an agricultural society, so their crops were their income. The implication is still a portion of income. The point of the tithe was to support the priesthood, since they weren't apportioned their own share of land.

As I already indicated, i don't see a commandment to tithe in the new testament, but I do see a promise of blessing that is no where invalidated in scripture.

Don't forget, only the land owner was required to tithe, not the thousands of field workers he used to sow, irrigate and harvest his crops. So the average wage earner never tithed, only the wealthy.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Really? my apologies. By tithe I meant the giving of 10% of your income to your local church. That is the only definition I have ever heard of the tithe in my entire Christian life.

Would you be so kind as to show me some of the other "half dozen" definitions people use? Thank you.

Absoluetly !!
Off the top of my head - most likely will not remember all of them right now ..
a) what you just wrote
b) giving ( just giving - no 10% - no "to the church" - nothing additional )
c) The Biblical command as is - no adjustments to a "New Testament" way of doing things .
d) Huge adjustments in every way to the commands given to the Israelites to fit into some "equivalent" to today's groups
e) any giving to their local group ( no minimum or maximum )
f) following the recording of Abraham's tithing after one situation and applying it as a command in some way for today

 

[GaryArnold]

Different definitions of what the tithe is:

1 - A tenth of the increase FROM THE LAND (crops) and every tenth animal in herds and flocks. That is GOD'S definition as given in Leviticus 27:30-33.

2 - A tenth of your gross income. That is a definition made up by church leaders.

3 - A tenth of your net income. That is a definition made up by church leaders.

4 - A tenth of ALL your "increase," meaning a tenth of your income, gifts, inheritances, and any other "increase" you may have. That is a definition made up by church leaders.

In the scriptures, Abram tithed from the NET war spoils, not the gross. In the scriptures, the Israelites tithed from the NET increase of crops and animals, not the gross. In the scriptures, the tithe never came from anyone's income, and was never money.

 

[DMW]

Just pay your tithes......so you can go to heaven.

 

[GloryBe!]

Is the tithe applicable to the New Covenant? Should Christians give 10% of their income to their church?

Or should we just give whatever is placed upon our hearts for that week, whether that be 7% or 35%?

To the first: No. Since the tithe wasn't even originally for an entity such as our present day "churches".

To the second: yes, but you're only thinking of money, and seemingly only thinking of Christian groups and corporations like the typical "church." We are to give our time to a lost woman of another race, food and fellowship and teaching to friends, a ride to the girl who's broke down, a hug to a hurting person, care and a place for a beaten stranger on the road, etc. The real "church" is PEOPLE, and giving comes in all shapes and sizes.

 

[GaryArnold]

Just pay your tithes......so you can go to heaven.

Have any scripture to support your claim? If not, you are spreading lies.

 

[DMW]

Show me a denarius.

 

[DMW]

I think I'm going to start my own Tither's denomination. Oh wait.... I don't have to! Virtually every denomination in existence believes and teaches tithing already. But all the armchair theologians of the internet know better than their pastors or thousands of years of church history can tell us.
With the overwhelming consensus of leadership proclaiming tithing as valid for the New Testament church, an honest believer should do so out of submission if nothing else. Unless of course, its about the money. Hmmmm.
Why take a chance on being wrong, since all the non-tithers insist it's not about the money, and they all give more than ten percent anyway?
A faithful steward should be pushing well past ten percent and encouraging others to do so, not waging small wars about farmers, slaves, law, and every other non-sensical thing to make the word of God of none effect.