Controversial Tithing Debate

[seeker2122]

Some people believe in literal tithing which is to give 10% of your income to God.
Some people believe it's not meant to be literally 10% but meaning simply to give to
God your best and be generous (give with a cheerful heart rather than giving disgruntled).

Then we have to define what does it mean to give to God? How do you give tithing to
God exactly? The church? Missions? Other charitable projects or recipients?

So here is a question I have specifically about giving "tithing" to your church.
Is there anything wrong with giving to your church in the form of "good works/generosity"
and not financially? So for example, let's say I don't want to give the church $200 a month
but I'd prefer to give them $80 a month and the other $120 I'll give to the church in the form
of paying it forward like taking people out for lunches/dinners, treating them with food,
snacks, gifts, and driving people to and from places so spending gas money and time etc.

Would you say this is acceptable form of tithing or do you think tithing should be specifically
monetary and then doing charitable acts is just bonus and out of your own good heart?

Also, I believe the leaders of the church who may be privy to members tithing stats, might
start to judge or develop a reputation around a person who is not tithing and even start
to condemn or resent them. I can sort of understand on the one hand, if you are a member
of a church and use their services such as sunday worship, snack/food time, events, programs
and you don't even give the church offering, you'd be like dead weight or "lazy welfare"
people who just eat up the systems resources without contributing or giving anything back.
In that sense, I can understand why some elders, leaders, (whoever is running the church) might
start to feel a little resentment towards you but may not say it directly because they are "christian"
and don't want to come off as being coercive and bullying.

At the same time, I think it's also a negative sign of a church that treats its members differently
based on how much they tithe or don't tithe. So you know that Johnny here is giving 100% of tithing
each week/month/year but Sally here is being cheap considering she makes good money.

Regardless of how much or how little you tithe, shouldn't a church not judge and treat you differently
because of it? Otherwise it seems like the church is just a business and cares more about your money
than they actually care about your soul.

If I don't trust or agree with the church's way of doing things but still want to be part of the church, isn't
fine for me to limit my monetary tithing and decide instead I'm going to give by doing things personally
for others in the church (lunch, dinner, drives, volunteering, etc.)?

What do you think?

 

[TPop]

Some people believe in literal tithing which is to give 10% of your income to God.
Some people believe it's not meant to be literally 10% but meaning simply to give to
God your best and be generous (give with a cheerful heart rather than giving disgruntled).

Then we have to define what does it mean to give to God? How do you give tithing to
God exactly? The church? Missions? Other charitable projects or recipients?

So here is a question I have specifically about giving "tithing" to your church.
Is there anything wrong with giving to your church in the form of "good works/generosity"
and not financially? So for example, let's say I don't want to give the church $200 a month
but I'd prefer to give them $80 a month and the other $120 I'll give to the church in the form
of paying it forward like taking people out for lunches/dinners, treating them with food,
snacks, gifts, and driving people to and from places so spending gas money and time etc.

Would you say this is acceptable form of tithing or do you think tithing should be specifically
monetary and then doing charitable acts is just bonus and out of your own good heart?

Also, I believe the leaders of the church who may be privy to members tithing stats, might
start to judge or develop a reputation around a person who is not tithing and even start
to condemn or resent them. I can sort of understand on the one hand, if you are a member
of a church and use their services such as sunday worship, snack/food time, events, programs
and you don't even give the church offering, you'd be like dead weight or "lazy welfare"
people who just eat up the systems resources without contributing or giving anything back.
In that sense, I can understand why some elders, leaders, (whoever is running the church) might
start to feel a little resentment towards you but may not say it directly because they are "christian"
and don't want to come off as being coercive and bullying.

At the same time, I think it's also a negative sign of a church that treats its members differently
based on how much they tithe or don't tithe. So you know that Johnny here is giving 100% of tithing
each week/month/year but Sally here is being cheap considering she makes good money.

Regardless of how much or how little you tithe, shouldn't a church not judge and treat you differently
because of it? Otherwise it seems like the church is just a business and cares more about your money
than they actually care about your soul.

If I don't trust or agree with the church's way of doing things but still want to be part of the church, isn't
fine for me to limit my monetary tithing and decide instead I'm going to give by doing things personally
for others in the church (lunch, dinner, drives, volunteering, etc.)?

What do you think?

Tithing is the humility trap for many.

Paul writes, not sure where, Think Corinthians, in many places in Corithians, about supporting teachers, they have a right, that teachers should be paid else they have to work, and if they have to work, what value are they to you as teachers? Where will that leave the students? With a bad teacher. Paul also says he gets to collect on his planting.

Tithing and beyond tithing, like supporting missionaries, is how you gain treasures in Heaven. Every Missionary you support, you share in their work in bringing people to Jesus. If you want no part of that, you will have few to no treasures in Heaven, and you will not be appointed highly in Heaven. You should want to give.

Start giving, and then up it a bit each year. Get used to it. And it is zero pain.

I'll look more tomorrow.
But not tithing leaves you missing out. Not supporting Missionaries on top of that, leaves you missing out on more. Plus, we are commanded to tithe. Paul is pretty clear and even obnoxious about it.

Peace and Blessings.

 

[seeker2122]

Tithing is the humility trap for many.

Paul writes, not sure where, Think Corinthians, in many places in Corithians, about supporting teachers, they have a right, that teachers should be paid else they have to work, and if they have to work, what value are they to you as teachers? Where will that leave the students? With a bad teacher. Paul also says he gets to collect on his planting.

Tithing and beyond tithing, like supporting missionaries, is how you gain treasures in Heaven. Every Missionary you support, you share in their work in bringing people to Jesus. If you want no part of that, you will have few to no treasures in Heaven, and you will not be appointed highly in Heaven. You should want to give.

Start giving, and then up it a bit each year. Get used to it. And it is zero pain.

I'll look more tomorrow.
But not tithing leaves you missing out. Not supporting Missionaries on top of that, leaves you missing out on more. Plus, we are commanded to tithe. Paul is pretty clear and even obnoxious about it.

Peace and Blessings.

So you are a literalist? You believe in monetary / financial giving at 10% and no other forms of giving is considered tithing?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Tithing was basically an old covenant possessions tax for Israelites. The were to set aside a tenth of all that their fields produce each year and new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of their herds and flocks Deuteronomy 14:22-23. The New Testament just says to give. Mainly to the needy. Jesus tells us to "give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing" Matthew 6:3

 

[MForbes]

Yeah, tithing (one tenth of your salary) is a Christian invention, and many try to base it on the bible.

If you want to give, give 'em cash in the offering plate (not in an offering envelope) and they can't track how much you are giving. At least that's what I did when I used to go to church.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Yeah, tithing (one tenth of your salary) is a Christian invention, and many try to base it on the bible.

If you want to give, give 'em cash in the offering plate (not in an offering envelope) and they can't track how much you are giving. At least that's what I did when I used to go to church.

That's what I do because Jesus basically said not to keep track of your giving, and I prefer that. I don't want it to be an expense. The idea is they keep track of it to give you a tax write off. But I just don't like doing it that way. During the lockdown I had to do it by check, so I finally got one of those tax write off sheets. I threw it away.

 

[com7fy8]

You might feed on Deuteronomy 14:22-29. What I get from this is >

The tither, oneself, uses the tithe for food to eat at the assembly of God's people.

And the tithe is used to support the ministerial people to their satisfaction.

And the tithe is for widows and fatherless and strangers who are at the gathering.

Also, the tithe is stored so the ministerial and needy ones may come and get food to their satisfaction.

So, it was food including in a storage location, I would say. And note how Malachi 3:8-10 says >

The tithe is to be brought to a storehouse; so I see it is food for the ministerial Levites and for widows and fatherless and strangers.

But in Malachi, here, it says Israel was robbing God "in" tithes and offerings. It doesn't say they did not tithe. Possibly they had the tithing, but they robbed God by not using the tithe to support the ministerial and the needy people.

And Jesus says what we do to the least of His we are doing to Him, right? So, if "in" tithing we do not support the ministerial and needy people of Christ, we are cheating Jesus by cheating His ministerial and needy people.

So, if a church tithes but does not use it to supply the ministry and needy people - - "in" how they handle the tithes they could be robbing God, right while they say non-tithers are robbing God!

There is more to learn about this, I would say. So, God bless you to grow in how He has you giving and sharing. I think of how the tithe was used to feed the tither at the assembly of God's people. I see, then, it was used for opportunity for loving.

There is God's love meaning for all He has us doing.

 

[ARBITER01]

Some people believe in literal tithing which is to give 10% of your income to God.
Some people believe it's not meant to be literally 10% but meaning simply to give to
God your best and be generous (give with a cheerful heart rather than giving disgruntled).

Then we have to define what does it mean to give to God? How do you give tithing to
God exactly? The church? Missions? Other charitable projects or recipients?

So here is a question I have specifically about giving "tithing" to your church.
Is there anything wrong with giving to your church in the form of "good works/generosity"
and not financially? So for example, let's say I don't want to give the church $200 a month
but I'd prefer to give them $80 a month and the other $120 I'll give to the church in the form
of paying it forward like taking people out for lunches/dinners, treating them with food,
snacks, gifts, and driving people to and from places so spending gas money and time etc.

Would you say this is acceptable form of tithing or do you think tithing should be specifically
monetary and then doing charitable acts is just bonus and out of your own good heart?

Also, I believe the leaders of the church who may be privy to members tithing stats, might
start to judge or develop a reputation around a person who is not tithing and even start
to condemn or resent them. I can sort of understand on the one hand, if you are a member
of a church and use their services such as sunday worship, snack/food time, events, programs
and you don't even give the church offering, you'd be like dead weight or "lazy welfare"
people who just eat up the systems resources without contributing or giving anything back.
In that sense, I can understand why some elders, leaders, (whoever is running the church) might
start to feel a little resentment towards you but may not say it directly because they are "christian"
and don't want to come off as being coercive and bullying.

At the same time, I think it's also a negative sign of a church that treats its members differently
based on how much they tithe or don't tithe. So you know that Johnny here is giving 100% of tithing
each week/month/year but Sally here is being cheap considering she makes good money.

Regardless of how much or how little you tithe, shouldn't a church not judge and treat you differently
because of it? Otherwise it seems like the church is just a business and cares more about your money
than they actually care about your soul.

If I don't trust or agree with the church's way of doing things but still want to be part of the church, isn't
fine for me to limit my monetary tithing and decide instead I'm going to give by doing things personally
for others in the church (lunch, dinner, drives, volunteering, etc.)?

What do you think?

A lot of Christian denominations call it tithing, but that is part of the law of Moses, and I think it had more to do with food and such. As a Christian, I give around 10% or more of my earnings because Abraham gave 10% of his spoils. We are children of Abraham, so I follow his pattern.

If you wish to do it a different way, then talk with GOD about it, see what He says.

 

[returntosender]

Some people believe in literal tithing which is to give 10% of your income to God.
Some people believe it's not meant to be literally 10% but meaning simply to give to
God your best and be generous (give with a cheerful heart rather than giving disgruntled).

Then we have to define what does it mean to give to God? How do you give tithing to
God exactly? The church? Missions? Other charitable projects or recipients?

So here is a question I have specifically about giving "tithing" to your church.
Is there anything wrong with giving to your church in the form of "good works/generosity"
and not financially? So for example, let's say I don't want to give the church $200 a month
but I'd prefer to give them $80 a month and the other $120 I'll give to the church in the form
of paying it forward like taking people out for lunches/dinners, treating them with food,
snacks, gifts, and driving people to and from places so spending gas money and time etc.

Would you say this is acceptable form of tithing or do you think tithing should be specifically
monetary and then doing charitable acts is just bonus and out of your own good heart?

Also, I believe the leaders of the church who may be privy to members tithing stats, might
start to judge or develop a reputation around a person who is not tithing and even start
to condemn or resent them. I can sort of understand on the one hand, if you are a member
of a church and use their services such as sunday worship, snack/food time, events, programs
and you don't even give the church offering, you'd be like dead weight or "lazy welfare"
people who just eat up the systems resources without contributing or giving anything back.
In that sense, I can understand why some elders, leaders, (whoever is running the church) might
start to feel a little resentment towards you but may not say it directly because they are "christian"
and don't want to come off as being coercive and bullying.

At the same time, I think it's also a negative sign of a church that treats its members differently
based on how much they tithe or don't tithe. So you know that Johnny here is giving 100% of tithing
each week/month/year but Sally here is being cheap considering she makes good money.

Regardless of how much or how little you tithe, shouldn't a church not judge and treat you differently
because of it? Otherwise it seems like the church is just a business and cares more about your money
than they actually care about your soul.

If I don't trust or agree with the church's way of doing things but still want to be part of the church, isn't
fine for me to limit my monetary tithing and decide instead I'm going to give by doing things personally
for others in the church (lunch, dinner, drives, volunteering, etc.)?

What do you think?

I think all options are good.

Then they have the other two
I've forgotten their names. Alms? And ?

 

[Sabertooth]

Is there anything wrong with...

Within the Grace of Salvation, there are two levels of "right & wrong."
They are,

1. ultimate right & wrong which will become clear to us when we finally arrive at 1 John 3:2, and
2. an incomplete, but progressive, understanding of right & wrong that we receive from the Holy Spirit according to John 14:26 (if we are Born-Again believers).

Though I have been to churches that overemphasize financial teachings at the expense of other worthwhile topics, I have found that God has honored His promises in Malachi 3:10-11 in our home/finances.

We are not rich. I am retired and on the poverty line, but God has helped the finances that we do have go farther.
We filed for bankruptcy in 2004.
Within ten years, we attained an 800+ credit score.

 

[seeker2122]

You might feed on Deuteronomy 14:22-29. What I get from this is >

The tither, oneself, uses the tithe for food to eat at the assembly of God's people.

And the tithe is used to support the ministerial people to their satisfaction.

And the tithe is for widows and fatherless and strangers who are at the gathering.

Also, the tithe is stored so the ministerial and needy ones may come and get food to their satisfaction.

So, it was food including in a storage location, I would say. And note how Malachi 3:8-10 says >

The tithe is to be brought to a storehouse; so I see it is food for the ministerial Levites and for widows and fatherless and strangers.

But in Malachi, here, it says Israel was robbing God "in" tithes and offerings. It doesn't say they did not tithe. Possibly they had the tithing, but they robbed God by not using the tithe to support the ministerial and the needy people.

And Jesus says what we do to the least of His we are doing to Him, right? So, if "in" tithing we do not support the ministerial and needy people of Christ, we are cheating Jesus by cheating His ministerial and needy people.

So, if a church tithes but does not use it to supply the ministry and needy people - - "in" how they handle the tithes they could be robbing God, right while they say non-tithers are robbing God!

There is more to learn about this, I would say. So, God bless you to grow in how He has you giving and sharing. I think of how the tithe was used to feed the tither at the assembly of God's people. I see, then, it was used for opportunity for loving.

There is God's love meaning for all He has us doing.

Awesome thank you so much for those references! Really helpful!

 

[seeker2122]

A lot of Christian denominations call it tithing, but that is part of the law of Moses, and I think it had more to do with food and such. As a Christian, I give around 10% or more of my earnings because Abraham gave 10% of his spoils. We are children of Abraham, so I follow his pattern.

If you wish to do it a different way, then talk with GOD about it, see what He says.

I think he cares more about the attitude of my heart when giving than how much I give (%). If I give 10% right on, but do it with a begrudging heart, he probably doesn't accept the tithe as genuine. If I give him 2% but with a cheerful and glad heart, he will accept it as sincere, but He still would expect me to put more faith in Him through tithing.

 

[seeker2122]

I think all options are good.

Then they have the other two
I've forgotten their names. Alms? And ?

Oh I just looked it up and I read about tithing vs offering vs alms (almsgiving). Hmm very interesting...I always just looked at them as all the same. Seems they are distinctly separate.

 

[Sabertooth]

You seem to not make the distinction between tithing & giving.
The latter is highly encouraged, but it is not part of the Malachi 3 promises.

 

[ARBITER01]

I think he cares more about the attitude of my heart when giving than how much I give (%). If I give 10% right on, but do it with a begrudging heart, he probably doesn't accept the tithe as genuine. If I give him 2% but with a cheerful and glad heart, he will accept it as sincere, but He still would expect me to put more faith in Him through tithing.

Just talk to Him, see what He wants you to do.

 

[seeker2122]

Just talk to Him, see what He wants you to do.

He has not told me specifically to give 10% or 50%. I have not received any specific direction to do so. He probably hasn't told me because He already knows that I am not a big giver and wouldn't follow through. This leads me to a more massive theological issue that I raised up earlier in a past post. Does God only ask people whom He knows will have the faith to obey and follow through? Why would he even bother to ask someone something when He already knows they wouldn't follow through.

The question I asked somewhere a long time back was about Abraham and his calling. The Bible of course doesn't mention how many attempts God made to call someone out to start the Great Nation. Our assumption is God only asked 1 person and that person was Abram and Abram responded in faith so God was 1 for 1 (100% batting average). This then posits the question, why wouldn't God have asked 150 other men before asking Abram? Because God must've known that those 150 other men he could have asked would not have obeyed and did not have the faith to follow through so did God actually spend time contacting each of the 150 men before Abram and letting them decide and let a lot of time pass before he finally got to Abram? Or did God simply know that Abram was the one because he already predestined and chose Abram and knew Abram would respond in faith?

 

[ARBITER01]

He has not told me specifically to give 10% or 50%. I have not received any specific direction to do so. He probably hasn't told me because He already knows that I am not a big giver and wouldn't follow through. This leads me to a more massive theological issue that I raised up earlier in a past post. Does God only ask people whom He knows will have the faith to obey and follow through? Why would he even bother to ask someone something when He already knows they wouldn't follow through.

The question I asked somewhere a long time back was about Abraham and his calling. The Bible of course doesn't mention how many attempts God made to call someone out to start the Great Nation. Our assumption is God only asked 1 person and that person was Abram and Abram responded in faith so God was 1 for 1 (100% batting average). This then posits the question, why wouldn't God have asked 150 other men before asking Abram? Because God must've known that those 150 other men he could have asked would not have obeyed and did not have the faith to follow through so did God actually spend time contacting each of the 150 men before Abram and letting them decide and let a lot of time pass before he finally got to Abram? Or did God simply know that Abram was the one because he already predestined and chose Abram and knew Abram would respond in faith?

You're letting your mind ask too many questions.

Just tell him what you want to do then, let him know respectfully and if He disagrees He'll let you know, otherwise carry on. That's about the best way to handle it.

 

[MForbes]

……. because Abraham gave 10% of his spoils. We are children of Abraham, so I follow his pattern.

Abraham gave 10% of his SPOILS only ONE time. SPOILS of war.

I reckon if all of us get any “spoils” from a war, maybe as “children of Abraham” we can do that. ONE TIME just as Abraham did.

Then us men can grab us a concubine and get her pregnant if our wife can’t have a kid.

 

[ARBITER01]

Abraham gave 10% of his SPOILS only ONE time. SPOILS of war.

I reckon if all of us get any “spoils” from a war, maybe as “children of Abraham” we can do that. ONE TIME just as Abraham did.

Then us men can grab us a concubine and get her pregnant if our wife can’t have a kid.

Hey,...by all means, follow the law of moses tithing requirement, but let me know when you your get levitical priesthood together and start sacrificing animals also.

My suggestion was what The Holy Spirit showed me to do and the reasonings behind it, if you don't wish to do it that way, that's perfectly fine with me, I was just answering his post.

 

[MForbes]

Hey,...by all means, follow the law of moses tithing requirement, but let me know when you your get levitical priesthood together and start sacrificing animals also.

My suggestion was what The Holy Spirit showed me to do and the reasonings behind it, if you don't wish to do it that way, that's perfectly fine with me, I was just answering his post.

Nah…ain’t gonna follow Moses either. I don’t think the Holy Spirit showed you a thing….because the reasoning behind it don’t make a lick of sense.

I know one thing…there’s a lot of church pastors trying to convince there flock to cough up 10% of their spoils because Abraham did the same thing ONCE.