To those who don't believe in eternal security...

[razzelflabben]

How did I pretend? I gave a link to another thread.

Do you read your own words and how insulting they are?

you made an assumption over another posters comment...I simply pointed out that the other poster could make his case so your declaration was not as accurate as you might think..nothing more or less...I can't figure out why you would make such a big deal over that....moving on...

 

[razzelflabben]

since some posters on this thread seem unable to keep things in context, let me try another approach to communication here...You asked another poster to evidence his claim and then pointed out that it wasn't as easy as that by siting a thread dedicated to the topic...I said, the claim can be evidenced, posted a passage then said it would be off topic of the thread to try to do more....to which you are apparently upset enough to continue to try to make that an issue all this time later.

Not sure why it upsets you to say, the case can made up but arguing about it would take us off topic, let's stay focused, but it did....that it upset you I am sorry, that I said it, I am not sorry, it needed said, we all need the occasional reminder given how easily things can get off topic with all the different beliefs.

 

[ToBeLoved]

you made an assumption over another posters comment...I simply pointed out that the other poster could make his case so your declaration was not as accurate as you might think..nothing more or less...I can't figure out why you would make such a big deal over that....moving on...

All I did was provide a link so if someone wanted to discuss it they wouldn't disrupt this thread.

I never made any assumption.

I am bringing this to your attention, so maybe you knock it off and start being more like our Father.

 

[ToBeLoved]

since some posters on this thread seem unable to keep things in context, let me try another approach to communication here...You asked another poster to evidence his claim and then pointed out that it wasn't as easy as that by siting a thread dedicated to the topic...I said, the claim can be evidenced, posted a passage then said it would be off topic of the thread to try to do more....to which you are apparently upset enough to continue to try to make that an issue all this time later.

Not sure why it upsets you to say, the case can made up but arguing about it would take us off topic, let's stay focused, but it did....that it upset you I am sorry, that I said it, I am not sorry, it needed said, we all need the occasional reminder given how easily things can get off topic with all the different beliefs.

And just like you brought forward what you feel you are not sorry about that needed to be said, I want to acknowledge your condescending attitude and false accusations.

Maybe the Holy Spirit will change your mind for the future.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Now I am ready to move on.

 

[Bible2+]

razzelflabben said in post 398:

Likewise, as I understand scripture, we will always be His children, but if we are determined to not receive any of the benefits of that, He will not force it upon us.

Many people think that being children of God means once-saved-always-saved.

But while believers are the children of God (Galatians 4:6-7, Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1, John 1:12), they can still ultimately lose their salvation, such as by refusing to repent from a sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46). For under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, a father was commanded to have even his own son stoned to death if his son refused to repent (Deuteronomy 21:18-21). And under the New Covenant, God will ultimately punish unrepentant sin even more sorely than he did under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Hebrews 10:26-29).

 

[Wordkeeper]

For that, you must prove that Judas was saved at all.

Jesus called him a son of perdition, so I think that is a good indication that he was never saved.

Early on, OSAS adherents claimed 'tares' partake of the gifts superficially. How involved should someone be to be considered 'wheat'?

 

[razzelflabben]

All I did was provide a link so if someone wanted to discuss it they wouldn't disrupt this thread.

I never made any assumption.

I am bringing this to your attention, so maybe you knock it off and start being more like our Father.

interesting...very interesting...

 

[razzelflabben]

And just like you brought forward what you feel you are not sorry about that needed to be said, I want to acknowledge your condescending attitude and false accusations.

Maybe the Holy Spirit will change your mind for the future.

websters...condescending... showing or characterized by a patronizing or superior attitude toward others

Now, the last time I checked one was not able to be condescending if they included themselves in the warning...and being that I said we all need warned to not get off topic, that would include me...maybe you need to understand the meaning of words you use to flame others before using them just some friendly advice, nothing more or less. I refuse to bow to such inflammatory and false remarks as you are painting me in here.

 

[razzelflabben]

Many people think that being children of God means once-saved-always-saved.

But while believers are the children of God (Galatians 4:6-7, Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1, John 1:12), they can still ultimately lose their salvation, such as by refusing to repent from a sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46). For under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, a father was commanded to have even his own son stoned to death if his son refused to repent (Deuteronomy 21:18-21). And under the New Covenant, God will ultimately punish unrepentant sin even more sorely than he did under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Hebrews 10:26-29).

as I was thinking and praying about this discussion last night, it struck me that maybe we need for the sake of communication define what we are saved to or from.

In my understanding we are saved from sin and death to life eternal....that being said, as our son is an example, we can have all the privileges of sonship, all the power to be without sin and still refuse to accept it. So, yep, that is how I understand scripture as well. I have yet to find one OSAS er who has offered anything resembling true challenge of that understanding from scripture.

 

[razzelflabben]

Early on, OSAS adherents claimed 'tares' partake of the gifts superficially. How involved should someone be to be considered 'wheat'?

lol...I tried that one with the question of what does a regenerated believer look like and didn't get anything but a slight of hand....hope you have better "luck"

 

[ToBeLoved]

And under the New Covenant, God will ultimately punish unrepentant sin even more sorely than he did under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Hebrews 10:26-29).

That is not what the Hebrews 10:26-29 is talking about.

It is talking to the Hebrews telling them that their is no more sacrifice for sin (by the Levitical priesthood) who made temporary atonement for sin.

 

[ToBeLoved]

websters...condescending... showing or characterized by a patronizing or superior attitude toward others

Now, the last time I checked one was not able to be condescending if they included themselves in the warning...and being that I said we all need warned to not get off topic, that would include me...maybe you need to understand the meaning of words you use to flame others before using them just some friendly advice, nothing more or less. I refuse to bow to such inflammatory and false remarks as you are painting me in here.

I don't want you to bow to anything. Chip on shoulder.

 

[razzelflabben]

That is not what the Hebrews 10:26-29 is talking about.

It is talking to the Hebrews telling them that their is no more sacrifice for sin (by the Levitical priesthood) who made temporary atonement for sin.

yet as pointed out, the context says it's about salvation...so we have to decide if we will take your word or it or what scripture tells us....

 

[razzelflabben]

I don't want you to bow to anything. Chip on shoulder.

I don't know what you are so upset about, no one did anything to you except challenge your ideas, did you come here thinking that you would not be challenged and that is what you are upset about?

 

[Bible2+]

razzelflabben said in post 410:

. . . it struck me that maybe we need for the sake of communication define what we are saved to or from.

What saved people are saved from, whether initially or ultimately, is eternal punishment in hell (Matthew 25:41,46). Initial salvation does save people from hell, initially. For an initially saved person will end up in hell ultimately only if he wrongly employs his free will subsequent to his initial salvation in such a way that he ultimately loses his salvation (e.g. Hebrews 10:26-29, Hebrews 6:4-8, Matthew 25:26,30).

 

[razzelflabben]

What saved people are saved from, whether initially or ultimately, is eternal punishment in hell (Matthew 25:41,46).

yep...Heb. 10:5-10 and Romans 8:2...we are set free from sin and death.

Initial salvation does save people from hell, initially. For an initially saved person will end up in hell ultimately only if he wrongly employs his free will subsequent to his initial salvation in such a way that he ultimately loses his salvation (e.g. Hebrews 10:26-29, Hebrews 6:4-8, Matthew 25:26,30).

You and I both see it that way, but that does not answer the question you quoted as being willing to answer.

So, second part of the question asked, what are we saved to? If we are saved from sin and death, what are we saved to...then we will talk about the saved from sin part as it applies to both sides of the OP question.

 

[ToBeLoved]

yet as pointed out, the context says it's about salvation...so we have to decide if we will take your word or it or what scripture tells us....

Why don't you show me the part about salvation?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't know what you are so upset about, no one did anything to you except challenge your ideas, did you come here thinking that you would not be challenged and that is what you are upset about?

I told you exactly what I was upset about. You don't like the answer so you are trying to make it about theology.

That's really sad. On a Christian Forum.

 

[razzelflabben]

Why don't you show me the part about salvation?

I did, highlighted and everything...are you not reading my posts? is that why you are so bent out of shape, because you are responding but not reading?