Time for the truth 7

[listed]

Originally Posted by mmksparbud

some things are just plain self-explanatory.

(Rom 7:22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

(Rom 7:23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

(Rom 7:24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

(Rom 7:25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
​

Because of the obvious rejection of the truth that will be only conclusion. The above is not an opinion but scripture.

So is 7:6 and 10:4

 

[mmksparbud]

I keep forgetting to figure out who can or can not post on some of these forums and I get into trouble for posting on orthodox only forums---I will unsubscribe to this one also. I will say this---there are some people on here that I quite simply will try to no longer communicate with as they know full well what our real position is and it has been posted over and over and over and over and they still refuse to acknowledge what we have said and ask the same stupid questions and demand an answer they've heard many times before. It gets boring and I only occasionally answer them in case others are looking. It's not possible to have communication with someone who refuses to acknowledge what you've stated and pretends you have said nothing! I will try to stay with the unorthodox forums as we apparently are not allowed to contradict (even with scripture) on here and someone ends up reporting us---goodbye.

 

[Elder 111]

That doesn't answer anything I posted.
It seems that this question I posed has been floated for years now, and neither you nor mmksparbud can ante up an answer to it:

Both of you should furnish an answer to this.
One of you floated the idea that you aren't saved, and you need to substantiate Adventism as a valid religious paradigm. Otherwise, it doesn't deserve any acceptance from anyone.

If you are going to reject what is said then of course you will never have an answer to your satisfaction. But I intend to look at the Sabbath more closely in a separate treat for I have not dealt with truth 4.

 

[Elder 111]

Why would a Christian need to be commanded not to worship idols? From what I have seen all throughout the Bible that commandment is the most useless of them all because it is the one most disobeyed. One could equate your exalting the 10 commandments over Jesus own commandments as a form of idolatry as you aren't choosing to love your neighbor instead you choose to not murder.

You can not exalt Jesus over Himself. Jesus gave the commandments so how can doing what Jesus commands be idolatry? To advocate the worship of God alone as in the first is idolatry!

 

[Elder 111]

I will say on and on in endless threads here Christians are being accused of idolatry, murder, adultery, and other sinful actions because instead of agreeing with keeping the 10 commandments for our standard of righteousness we obey Jesus and the Apostles when they tell us we will be ok to just plainly love our neighbor. How simple can loving your neighbor be that it has to be tossed under a screaming bus like a rotten sandwich and replaced by a piece of stone that says don't murder or commit adultery?

It is not replaced! it is a part of!

 

[Elder 111]

You keep forgetting this 1 small detail -

And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

That has nothing to do with it. Did He not take on flesh? " Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

 

[VictorC]

Why would a Christian need to be commanded not to worship idols? From what I have seen all throughout the Bible that commandment is the most useless of them all because it is the one most disobeyed. One could equate your exalting the 10 commandments over Jesus own commandments as a form of idolatry as you aren't choosing to love your neighbor instead you choose to not murder.

You can not exalt Jesus over Himself. Jesus gave the commandments so how can doing what Jesus commands be idolatry? To advocate the worship of God alone as in the first is idolatry!

Read the observations that were pointed out to you again. Why is it that you simply don't understand the posts you reply to? When someone points out that worshipping a created thing over the Creator is a form of idolatry, you apologize for your habit of worhipping a created thing over God by claiming that worshipping a created thing over the Creator is idolatry. The end result is that you openly admit that you're practicing idolatry.

 

[VictorC]

It seems that this question I posed has been floated for years now, and neither you nor mmksparbud can ante up an answer to it:

Now look at the post times. Neither one of you considers the Sabbath holy, and neither one of you keep it holy. Neither one of you can show where God ever conveyed it to the Gentile nations. And yet, Ellen White wrote "It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord". How can you claim salvation in light of this soteriology of works both of you fail to satisfy?

Both of you should furnish an answer to this.
One of you floated the idea that you aren't saved, and you need to substantiate Adventism as a valid religious paradigm. Otherwise, it doesn't deserve any acceptance from anyone.

If you are going to reject what is said then of course you will never have an answer to your satisfaction. But I intend to look at the Sabbath more closely in a separate treat for I have not dealt with truth 4.

It's pretty hard for me to reject something that isn't written, don't you think?
The validity of your whole church fell onto your shoulders, and it became your responsibility to rescue the SDA church from the annals of rejection as an error that doesn't deserve acceptance from anyone.
Your response?
That you can't rescue your church, because you need to wander off and redefine the Sabbath elsewhere in the future.
I don't think that's going to fly.

Truth be known, you provided an answer on a parallel thread this morning:

In other words one who refuses to keep the 10 has their salvation ripped from them.

Unless you are going to tell me that we can lie and steal etc. and still be at one with God, you agree with me that the answer is yes!

Everyone here knows that the Sabbath was codified in the covenant from Mount Sinai that Moses named the Ten Commandments. Above, you admitted your 'salvation' is determined by your own compliance with the old covenant. On this thread, you proved that you don't consider the Sabbath to be Holy and you don't keep it.

You sure didn't rescue your church.
Your own words condemn only yourself and beg for the rest of us to dismiss the SDA church as a weird phenomenon promising salvation for no one.

 

[VictorC]

I keep forgetting to figure out who can or can not post on some of these forums and I get into trouble for posting on orthodox only forums---I will unsubscribe to this one also. I will say this---there are some people on here that I quite simply will try to no longer communicate with as they know full well what our real position is and it has been posted over and over and over and over and they still refuse to acknowledge what we have said and ask the same stupid questions and demand an answer they've heard many times before. It gets boring and I only occasionally answer them in case others are looking. It's not possible to have communication with someone who refuses to acknowledge what you've stated and pretends you have said nothing! I will try to stay with the unorthodox forums as we apparently are not allowed to contradict (even with scripture) on here and someone ends up reporting us---goodbye.

Your comment that I bolded above provided the answer I sought. Thank you for your reply.

 

[listed]

I keep forgetting to figure out who can or can not post on some of these forums and I get into trouble for posting on orthodox only forums---I will unsubscribe to this one also. I will say this---there are some people on here that I quite simply will try to no longer communicate with as they know full well what our real position is and it has been posted over and over and over and over and they still refuse to acknowledge what we have said and ask the same stupid questions and demand an answer they've heard many times before. It gets boring and I only occasionally answer them in case others are looking. It's not possible to have communication with someone who refuses to acknowledge what you've stated and pretends you have said nothing! I will try to stay with the unorthodox forums as we apparently are not allowed to contradict (even with scripture) on here and someone ends up reporting us---goodbye.

We certainly acknowledge your position. We do not accept it for ourselves. We do not find your position to be Scriptural. We do not refuse to accept the Scripture. So what exactly is or was the reason for your appearance here? Was it to change our beliefs? If we want to investigate your religion we can go to the SDA forums. You guys and gals can not even agree among yourselves enough to have a single united forum.

 

[Sophrosyne]

You can not exalt Jesus over Himself. Jesus gave the commandments so how can doing what Jesus commands be idolatry? To advocate the worship of God alone as in the first is idolatry!

When you advocate keeping the Sabbath as mandatory for Christians then it must be elevated beyond the simplest of instructions which are required of us to be saved. If one is saved by faith in Jesus, then demanding the Sabbath in the mix and focusing solely on it and the 10 commandments is essentially exalting it above the simple commandment to believe and accept the gift of salvation. Whatever you put ahead of God (Jesus) is an idol simply put.

 

[Sophrosyne]

It is not replaced! it is a part of!

Jesus never said believe AND keep the 10 commandments and you will be saved.

 

[Elder 111]

When you advocate keeping the Sabbath as mandatory for Christians then it must be elevated beyond the simplest of instructions which are required of us to be saved. If one is saved by faith in Jesus, then demanding the Sabbath in the mix and focusing solely on it and the 10 commandments is essentially exalting it above the simple commandment to believe and accept the gift of salvation. Whatever you put ahead of God (Jesus) is an idol simply put.

How can one exalt God above God? For the Ten commandments is of God! Where did you think it came from?

 

[Elder 111]

Jesus never said believe AND keep the 10 commandments and you will be saved.

Did He say believe and don't keep the ten commandments? If you love me keep my commandments He said. Don't you know the ten commandments are His?

 

[Sophrosyne]

How can one exalt God above God? For the Ten commandments is of God! Where did you think it came from?

I'm sorry but God isn't Law, the pharisees worshiped the Law instead of the creator of the Law.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Did He say believe and don't keep the ten commandments? If you love me keep my commandments He said. Don't you know the ten commandments are His?

I tire of this endless stupidity where commandments only has YOUR definition that is always equated ONLY with the 10 written on stone and NO other commandments EVER given by Jesus OR any other author of the Bible. You have such tunnel vision that I wonder if you have the hubble telescope in place of reading glasses that won't allow you to see the commandments written in ONLY the New Testament are excellent and more than adequate to replace the Mosaic Law. I follow the commandment to love because it is far superior that the 10 which only strive to keep people from ACTING upon their carnal nature. I contest that someone could absolutely HATE God in their heart but be seen by those around them as in perfect compliance with the 10 commandments.

 

[listed]

Did He say believe and don't keep the ten commandments? If you love me keep my commandments He said. Don't you know the ten commandments are His?

By what means?

 

[Cribstyl]

Thou shalt not commit adultery.
How come we as Christians can advocate that the ten commandments are not applicable to us yet when we look at the individual tenants of the law no one says that it is not for us to keep.
If we are not required to fulfill or do the things the Ten commandments call for then there should be no condemnation for something such as adultery. As simply as that. So that preachers that live with all the women they could in they congregations can not be condemned by God if the law does not apply.
The idea now is that some apply, some of the ten. But God wrote them with His own hand as one unit on two tablets. Where is it stated that they can be separated? As a matter of fact James says they can not be. James 2:
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James Here quotes the Ten, didn't he? So what does he say. Break one of the ten is the same as breaking all of the ten. What God has put together let no man put asunder!

Sorry Elder, but this is a con job. If our brand of christianity teach that anything ungodly is sin, this includes acts not written in the ten. Sin does not to be defined to be a sin. Which of the ten speaks of gossipping, complaining, homosexuality, ungreatfullness........
My #1 issue with you is about how you have to misrepresent what others christians believe, and to portray your group as following the righteous path.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Sorry Elder, but this is a con job. If our brand of christianity teach that anything ungodly is sin, this includes acts not written in the ten. Sin does not to be defined to be a sin. Which of the ten speaks of gossipping, complaining, homosexuality, ungreatfullness........
My #1 issue with you is about how you have to misrepresent what others christians believe, and to portray your group as following the righteous path.

Big con job.... as the Sabbath command is NEVER quoted by James or Jesus where they quote other commandments so we have at best 9. I find is funny that these adventists never learned to count to 10

 

[Elder 111]

Big con job.... as the Sabbath command is NEVER quoted by James or Jesus where they quote other commandments so we have at best 9. I find is funny that these adventists never learned to count to 10

Did you not hear that Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man?