Time for the truth 7

[listed]

I'm still waiting for proof of a Sabbath command in the New Testament.

We might turn blue. I think we are on ignore.

 

[VictorC]

Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man! JESUS!! Mark 2:27.

Yep!
That's the reason Jesus declared His sovereignty over the Sabbath, as it wasn't made for God.

You think God made the Sabbath for Himself to rest?

Nope!
That notion exists nowhere in the Biblical record.

Your post outlines the proof that the Sabbath didn't originate in the creation account recorded in Genesis chapter 2. Even Exodus 20 records the seventh day God rested and the Sabbath as distinct and separate entities, and you quoted some of that, too.
so....
Quit with the unBiblical notion the Sabbath existed prior to the manna experience. Repeating said notion would only prove you don't believe your own posts.

 

[VictorC]

I'm still waiting for proof of a Sabbath command in the New Testament.

Now, wouldn't that demand that God's redeemed children depart from God's "My rest" the Sabbath didn't provide?
And become circumcised to adhere to the annual Sabbaths included when God charged the children of Israel to keep His Sabbaths in the plural?
And perform the burnt offerings necessary to keep the Sabbath holy?
And procure the Levitical priesthood exclusively authorized to perform those burnt offerings?
Burnt offerings the Lord isn't authorized to perform?
Burnt offerings the Lord has no pleasure in?

Wouldn't doing all the things necessary to keep the Sabbath HOLY according to the Law that ordained it DEMAND that you dump Jesus our High Priest in order to replace Him with the Levitical priesthood? Essentially reject Christianity in order to revert to Judaism?

The answer to all of these is "yes".
Reverting to the old covenant that ordained the Sabbath denies God's redemption of transgressions under it, and denies His mediation of a new covenant that replaced the former shadow with His permanent rest.
The reason He took away the old covenant.

There's a lot more entailed in your request of proof of the Sabbath in the new covenant than meets the eye. As you've learned by experience already, such proof doesn't exist.
Nor can it.

For Elder111: read the citations affirming the above points:
Hebrews 4:6-11
Exodus 12:48
Exodus 31:13
Numbers 28:9-10
Hebrews 7:11
Hebrews 7:14
Hebrews 10:8
Hebrews 9:15
Hebrews 10:9

Nowhere in Scripture is there anything to prevent you or others from assembling on any day of the week as a matter of tradition. However, plenty of quotes outlining Adventism's soteriology have been provided to show that they don't assemble on the Sabbath as a matter of traditional choice, and they do not extend us the liberty Christ gave to us to choose another day of the week.
Galatians 5:1-4 is the final citation offered for your edification.

 

[Elder 111]

I hope that all can see that the real problem with the ten commandments is the Sabbath and nothing else. All this talk about the law being abolished or not for Christians today is a smoke screen to get at the removal of the Sabbath. This tread is about the 7th command of the ten but the posts are all about the Sabbath now. Why??
If God put all the law together and we can not find any reason to violate the tenets of the law, such as stealing , adultery or idolatry, why do we think it is OK to remove one?
Satan has gotten us again, there was only one tree in the garden of Eden now there is only one law of the ten and we just have to fail at the one again. Can we not learn!!!

 

[Sophrosyne]

I hope that all can see that the real problem with the ten commandments is the Sabbath and nothing else. All this talk about the law being abolished or not for Christians today is a smoke screen to get at the removal of the Sabbath. This tread is about the 7th command of the ten but the posts are all about the Sabbath now. Why??
If God put all the law together and we can not find any reason to violate the tenets of the law, such as stealing , adultery or idolatry, why do we think it is OK to remove one?
Satan has gotten us again, there was only one tree in the garden of Eden now there is only one law of the ten and we just have to fail at the one again. Can we not learn!!!

Hogwash, nobody here is removing the Sabbath from the New Testament at all, we have acknowledged properly when it was mentioned AND the reasoning for its mention. It is you and others here that constantly accuse and condemn us for not accepting blindly your assertion that 9 equals 10 and that in the midst of YOUR smoke screen the Sabbath was commanded of Christians.... especially NON Jewish NON Israeli Christians.
Satan has nothing to do with us rejecting your ploy unless of course you ARE listening to him in your efforts to bind us to commandments even Jesus himself in person never asked for.

Show me where Jesus in his 3 year ministry ever commanded Sabbath keeping of us while he walked the earth and was bound to keep the Sabbath himself he never once instructed anyone to keep it that we can ascertain.

 

[listed]

I hope that all can see that the real problem with the ten commandments is the Sabbath and nothing else. All this talk about the law being abolished or not for Christians today is a smoke screen to get at the removal of the Sabbath. This tread is about the 7th command of the ten but the posts are all about the Sabbath now. Why??
If God put all the law together and we can not find any reason to violate the tenets of the law, such as stealing , adultery or idolatry, why do we think it is OK to remove one?
Satan has gotten us again, there was only one tree in the garden of Eden now there is only one law of the ten and we just have to fail at the one again. Can we not learn!!!

The problem is not the Sabbath. The problem is which covenant 1 wants to submit to and the requiring of others to submit to a covenant that has no jurisdiction.

Elder what is your real goal? Is it not to get (convert) others to keep your version of the law? You say over and over we are not to commit adultery, steal, lie or be involved in idolatry. Because we do not do these things you claim we are keeping the law anyway, so why not just do more of it. Grace does not give permission to sin. Sin was before the law.

I wonder if anyone besides me notices which of the commandments Elder leaves out and his not participating much in certain numbered truth threads.

 

[VictorC]

I hope that all can see that the real problem with the ten commandments is the Sabbath and nothing else. All this talk about the law being abolished or not for Christians today is a smoke screen to get at the removal of the Sabbath. This tread is about the 7th command of the ten but the posts are all about the Sabbath now. Why??
If God put all the law together and we can not find any reason to violate the tenets of the law, such as stealing , adultery or idolatry, why do we think it is OK to remove one?
Satan has gotten us again, there was only one tree in the garden of Eden now there is only one law of the ten and we just have to fail at the one again. Can we not learn!!!

You have never honestly confronted your performance against the Holiness of the Law, as has been pointed out many times to you. The result is that Christianity remains offensive to you. Ellen White attributed the Gospel to satan, and your comments are so much like hers that it isn't hard to see the source of your pathetic theology.

Fact: You were never given the covenant from Mount Sinai Moses named the Ten Commandments.
Fact: You were never given the Sabbath. You're a Gentile living in a foreign land.
Fact: God's rest we are encouraged to enter into is met with uniform disdain in each and every one of your posts.

Now, if Christianity offends you, what does this say about the belief system you've embraced?

 

[Sophrosyne]

The problem is not the Sabbath. The problem is which covenant 1 wants to submit to and the requiring of others to submit to a covenant that has no jurisdiction.

Elder what is your real goal? Is it not to get (convert) others to keep your version of the law? You say over and over we are not to commit adultery, steal, lie or be involved in idolatry. Because we do not do these things you claim we are keeping the law anyway, so why not just do more of it. Grace does not give permission to sin. Sin was before the law.

I wonder if anyone besides me notices which of the commandments Elder leaves out and his not participating much in certain numbered truth threads.

Actually the problem is the Sabbath in that if the Sabbath command is NOT THERE for us to keep then the 10 become.... NOTHING because 9 doesn't equal 10 and never will regardless of how much one tries to hoodwink Christians into thinking 9 equals 10 some people do know how to add here.

 

[VictorC]

Actually the problem is the Sabbath in that if the Sabbath command is NOT THERE for us to keep then the 10 become.... NOTHING because 9 doesn't equal 10 and never will regardless of how much one tries to hoodwink Christians into thinking 9 equals 10 some people do know how to add here.

I must object to dissection of the singular covenant from Mount Sinai into constituent components that don't reflect the singularity of the covenant. The Ten Commandments is a proper name, and not a number that can be divided.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I must object to dissection of the singular covenant from Mount Sinai into constituent components that don't reflect the singularity of the covenant. The Ten Commandments is a proper name, and not a number that can be divided.

It has been systematically divided into parts in these "Time for truth" threads and each part is supposed to show we are bound to 10 but in the end we see only bad math skills in the effort.

 

[VictorC]

It has been systematically divided into parts in these "Time for truth" threads and each part is supposed to show we are bound to 10 but in the end we see only bad math skills in the effort.

That's been done by someone who has already shown us all he has no idea what the Ten Commandments was. I don't think we need to devolve to his level of incompetence; an appeal to the lowest common denominator just doesn't work in this case.

He would leave the apostle Paul out of God's solution to transgression of the Law all the recipients were (and are) guilty of. Paul's zeal for the Law turned him into a murderer, and he openly confronts his condition, as well as God's solution provided to all who have faith in His provision.

1 Timothy 1
12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.​

 

[Sophrosyne]

That's been done by someone who has already shown us all he has no idea what the Ten Commandments was. I don't think we need to devolve to his level of incompetence; an appeal to the lowest common denominator just doesn't work in this case.

He would leave the apostle Paul out of God's solution to transgression of the Law all the recipients were (and are) guilty of. Paul's zeal for the Law turned him into a murderer, and he openly confronts his condition, as well as God's solution provided to all who have faith in His provision.

1 Timothy 1
12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.​

Paul has to be dismissed because he is the ultimate example of where the Law in the end takes us as Saul he was on top of the "game" doing everything "right" according to the Law but God sees things not through the eyes of the Law but through faith and God had to strip Paul of the Law entirely and start him over from nothing but faith in him. The Law itself doesn't care about mercy.... the humans who are in charge of it have to make sure to include it otherwise it is nothing but death and slavery. I would equate the Law as a stumbling block between us and God always showing up and tripping people into sin while Christ has us bypassing the Law altogether making him the stumbling block of offense to those who exalt the Law ahead of him.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That's been done by someone who has already shown us all he has no idea what the Ten Commandments was. I don't think we need to devolve to his level of incompetence; an appeal to the lowest common denominator just doesn't work in this case.

He would leave the apostle Paul out of God's solution to transgression of the Law all the recipients were (and are) guilty of. Paul's zeal for the Law turned him into a murderer, and he openly confronts his condition, as well as God's solution provided to all who have faith in His provision.

1 Timothy 1
12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.​

Praise God for His grace. I will take my stand with Paul any day of the week (including Saturday).

 

[Elder 111]

Is it that these thing belong to Israel alone? God only love Israel? Deut 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
13 To keep the commandments of the Lord, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

Are we not called to love the Lord also? Do we not receive and needed the rain in dew seasons?
Deut 11: 13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the Lord your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.
15 And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full.

 

[Elder 111]

Hogwash, nobody here is removing the Sabbath from the New Testament at all, we have acknowledged properly when it was mentioned AND the reasoning for its mention. It is you and others here that constantly accuse and condemn us for not accepting blindly your assertion that 9 equals 10 and that in the midst of YOUR smoke screen the Sabbath was commanded of Christians.... especially NON Jewish NON Israeli Christians.
Satan has nothing to do with us rejecting your ploy unless of course you ARE listening to him in your efforts to bind us to commandments even Jesus himself in person never asked for.

Show me where Jesus in his 3 year ministry ever commanded Sabbath keeping of us while he walked the earth and was bound to keep the Sabbath himself he never once instructed anyone to keep it that we can ascertain.

Mat 24: 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Why did Jesus told us to pray that our flight be not on the Sabbath? Because He expected that we will still be keeping it even when He returns the second time!!!!

 

[Elder 111]

Paul has to be dismissed because he is the ultimate example of where the Law in the end takes us as Saul he was on top of the "game" doing everything "right" according to the Law but God sees things not through the eyes of the Law but through faith and God had to strip Paul of the Law entirely and start him over from nothing but faith in him. The Law itself doesn't care about mercy.... the humans who are in charge of it have to make sure to include it otherwise it is nothing but death and slavery. I would equate the Law as a stumbling block between us and God always showing up and tripping people into sin while Christ has us bypassing the Law altogether making him the stumbling block of offense to those who exalt the Law ahead of him.

The God who saves us gave us the law. Is the above what you think of God?

 

[listed]

Is it that these thing belong to Israel alone? God only love Israel? Deut 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
13 To keep the commandments of the Lord, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

Are we not called to love the Lord also? Do we not receive and needed the rain in dew seasons?
Deut 11: 13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the Lord your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.
15 And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full.

Oh my!!! unbelievable confusion.

 

[listed]

Mat 24: 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Why did Jesus told us to pray that our flight be not on the Sabbath? Because He expected that we will still be keeping it even when He returns the second time!!!!

Jesus is not talking to Gentiles here, nor are they included in His meaning. You come to that conclusion only by misapplying the pronoun, us.

 

[listed]

The God who saves us gave us the law. Is the above what you think of God?

God did not give the gentiles the law.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Mat 24: 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Why did Jesus told us to pray that our flight be not on the Sabbath? Because He expected that we will still be keeping it even when He returns the second time!!!!
​

Jesus is not talking to Gentiles here, nor are they included in His meaning. You come to that conclusion only by misapplying the pronoun, us.

Hold up there buddy! So none of what Jesus said was for us?