Thousands of vaccinated people sick, dozens dead

[Jaxxi]

That's cool. The vaccine you don't want will go to someone who does want it.

Very good, and then 5 years down the road when they have perfected it, maybe I will do it then.

 

[Aldebaran]

I wear a mask everywhere I go and like Id said before, I am not saying I will never get it, I am saying its too soon. This is going into my body and once its done I cant undo it! So I want to wait. If all seems good 5 years down the road maybe then.

Same here!

 

[expos4ever]

The point being that experts thought they knew what they were talking about a year ago, and then they flip-flop and say they know what they're talking about now.

Huh? Flip-flop? It is an interesting that you take a situation where very little was known about Covid a year ago, and much more known now, and characterize the change in position on masks over the last year as a "flip-flop".

That is like saying that a change from belief that disease was transmitted by magic to a belief that it is transmitted by viruses and bacteria is a "flip-flop".

 

[Jaxxi]

That's the type of logic that leads to "And therefore, I get to tell you how to live your life!"

Exactly and they dont. Not to mention the " stop with the dishonesty" thing kills me. I waa quoting what they said but the way it is written, you would think I was lying!

 

[expos4ever]

The vaccines just came out, and we're supposed to believe what they tell us now, aren't we?

In saying the vaccines "just came out", you wouldn't be intentionally filtering out the fact that the vaccines were studied for months last year, would you?

 

[Jaxxi]

Same here!

Until then, there is not a single soul on this planet who is going to guilt trip me into getting it. Not one.

 

[expos4ever]

A year from now, what's to prevent the same narrative of, "We know more now than we did a year ago, and that's why we're pulling the vaccines off the market"?

Well, if that happens, then you would have a point.

 

[Aldebaran]

Huh? Flip-flop? It is an interesting that you take a situation where very little was known about Covid a year ago, and much more known now, and characterize the change in position on masks over the last year as a "flip-flop".

They first said that masks weren't effective, and now claim they save lives. At one point, CDC director Robert Redfield even claimed that masks may even be more effective than a vaccine: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/16/cdc...ore-protection-than-coronavirus-vaccine-.html

That is like saying that a change from belief that disease was transmitted by magic to a belief that it is transmitted by viruses and bacteria is a "flip-flop".

Whatever.

 

[expos4ever]

Again, proving they can change their minds about things as time goes by. It would be nice if the vaccine Nazis would remember that.

Your reasoning is obviously incorrect.

First, intentionally no doubt, you characterize a situation where a decision based on almost no information has been reversed based on an avalanche of new information as "changing their minds".

You are, misleadingly of course, trying to paint the change as one of mere whim.

And I will be merciful about the allusion to Nazis.

 

[Aldebaran]

In saying the vaccines "just came out", you wouldn't be intentionally filtering out the fact that the vaccines were studied for months last year, would you?

Studying, and releasing to the general public are two different things. Otherwise the drug companies wouldn't normally take years to study and develop drugs, then get FDA approval, then release it to the public, and then get faced with lawsuits and recalls because people started dying from it. So studying it for months last year means little to long-term effects after being released on a global scale.

 

[Aldebaran]

Well, if that happens, then you would have a point.

And that's why I choose to wait.

 

[Jaxxi]

I heartily agree that I "flame" - no argument from me. If you (or someone) wants to run to daddy and report me, be my guest.

While I respect that the mods are in an impossible position, it is fundamentally not right that dangerous falsehoods propagate like rabbits here. Let me be clear: I think the mods cannot do anything about this without suppressing legitimate freedom of speech.

But you should be able to play your part - stop spreading falsehoods.

Falsehoods? Lets look at some facts.

 

[Aldebaran]

Your reasoning is obviously incorrect.

First, intentionally no doubt, you characterize a situation where a decision based on almost no information has been reversed based on an avalanche of new information as "changing their minds".

You are, misleadingly of course, trying to paint the change as one of mere whim.

And I will be merciful about the allusion to Nazis.

You're being needlessly defensive here. No need for it.
Just because "experts" claim something doesn't mean it's correct. The fact that they make those claims based on what they know at the time doesn't mean new information won't completely make them wrong later. The mask recommendations are an example of that.

 

[Aldebaran]

Exactly and they dont. Not to mention the " stop with the dishonesty" thing kills me. I waa quoting what they said but the way it is written, you would think I was lying!

They like to try smearing a person's character when they don't like what information is presented. Show them something they don't like and the response is inevitably something like, "You're deliberately misrepresenting....." or "Your reasoning is obviously incorrect.", or my favorite, "You are, misleadingly of course....".

Why can't they just have a civil discussion about things?

 

[expos4ever]

Falsehoods? Lets look at some facts

All righty-then, batter up!

Your first point is a strawman - no one ever claimed that getting covid after a vaccine was a myth.

Is the irony of this lost on you? It was you (among others) who insisted that those of us who get vaccinated should not insert our snouts into your business since, after all, we are protected.

 

[expos4ever]

Why can't they just have a civil discussion about things?

You stop mangling the truth - and let's be clear, your rap sheet on this is a mile long - and we will be "civil".

 

[Aldebaran]

You stop mangling the truth - and let's be clear, your rap sheet on this is a mile long - and we will be "civil".

And you stop dancing around calling me a liar.

 

[expos4ever]

Falsehoods? Lets look at some facts.

Your second tidbit is about someone dying from the vaccine.

Well, no kidding. Who ever said otherwise?

And did you not actually read the article - at time of publication they did not know whether the death had anything to do with the vaccine.

But let's assume that she did die from the vaccine - a reader would need to have been struck repeatedly about the head and ears with a blunt object to not realize that what really matters is the benefit-risk tradeoff of the shot, not the risk alone.

 

[expos4ever]

And you stop dancing around calling me a liar.

Who's dancing?

 

[Jaxxi]

In saying the vaccines "just came out", you wouldn't be intentionally filtering out the fact that the vaccines were studied for months last year, would you?

They probably mean in relation to it usually taking 10-15 years to develop a safe vaccine and that is according to the government.

Clinical vaccine development

See for yourself. Its under the " Current clinical" section.