Thoughts ...

Inspired 1

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we tend to execute those who's truth is not ours ...
I agree and this was kind of what I was saying above-- If we get out of the second heavens then we are above the warring and fighting and real eyes that the whole world is full of the Glory of God.
 
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mozo41

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its a left right right left face off ... an opposition ... as in another's left is on your right and your right on their left or Moses sprinkled the blood of beasts to his right side which was the left side of the Ark .... as long as there is division their is conflict this is just how it is within this moment within the perception of these two opposites ...
 
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Inspired 1

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just want to make it clear... so as not to come across as smart donkey, but I am still working this out for myself ...

oh and a donkey just so happens to be my favorite animal ;)
You are loved and appreciated!!
 
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Noxot

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this guy (Christopher Michael Langan) believes in God and might have the highest IQ in the world, they think it's about 190-210 ( which is insane). I dunno if he is legit but he seems to be. his website is Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe nice reading his thoughts. for instance:


Q: Does the CTMU allow for the existence of souls and reincarnation?

A: From the CTMU, there emerge multiple levels of consciousness. Human temporal consciousness is the level with which we're familiar; global (parallel) consciousness is that of the universe as a whole. The soul is the connection between the two...the embedment of the former in the latter.

In the CTMU, reality is viewed as a profoundly self-contained, self-referential kind of "language", and languages have syntaxes. Because self-reference is an abstract generalization of consciousness - consciousness is the attribute by virtue of which we possess self-awareness - conscious agents are "sublanguages" possessing their own cognitive syntaxes. Now, global consciousness is based on a complete cognitive syntax in which our own incomplete syntax can be embedded, and this makes human consciousness transparent to it; in contrast, our ability to access the global level is restricted due to our syntactic limitations.

Thus, while we are transparent to the global syntax of the global conscious agency "God", we cannot see everything that God can see. Whereas God perceives one total act of creation in a parallel distributed fashion, with everything in perfect superposition, we are localized in spacetime and perceive reality only in a succession of locally creative moments. This parallelism has powerful implications. When a human being dies, his entire history remains embedded in the timeless level of consciousness...the Deic level. In that sense, he or she is preserved by virtue of his or her "soul". And since the universe is a self-refining entity, that which is teleologically valid in the informational construct called "you" may be locally re-injected or redistributed in spacetime. In principle, this could be a recombinative process, with the essences of many people combining in a set of local injections or "reincarnations" (this could lead to strange effects...e.g., a single person remembering simultaneous "past lifetimes").

In addition, an individual human sublanguage might be vectored into an alternate domain dynamically connected to its existence in spacetime. In this scenario, the entity would emerge into an alternate reality based on the interaction between her local level of consciousness and the global level embedding it...i.e., based on the state of her "soul" as just defined. This may be the origin of beliefs regarding heaven, hell, purgatory, limbo and other spiritual realms.
 
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Noxot

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just wanted to share this, I thought it was pretty awesome.. it's from that website.

Q: If I have interpreted you correctly, you maintain that the universe created itself. How did this come about? What existed before the Universe and when did the Universe create itself or come into being? - Celia Joslyn

A: You're asking three distinct but related questions about cosmology: how, when and as what did the universe self-create?

The universe can be described as a cybernetic system in which freedom and constraint are counterbalanced. The constraints function as structure; thus, the laws of physics are constraints which define the structure of spacetime, whereas freedom is that which is bound or logically quantified by the constraints in question. Now, since there is no real time scale external to reality, there is no extrinsic point in time at which the moment of creation can be located, and this invalidates phrases like "before reality existed" and "when reality created itself". So rather than asking "when" the universe came to be, or what existed "before" the universe was born, we must instead ask "what would remain if the structural constraints defining the real universe were regressively suspended?" First, time would gradually disappear, eliminating the "when" question entirely. And once time disappears completely, what remains is the answer to the "what" question: a realm of boundless potential characterized by a total lack of real constraint. In other words, the real universe timelessly emerges from a background of logically unquantified potential to which the concepts of space and time simply do not apply.

Now let's attend to your "how" question. Within a realm of unbound potential like the one from which the universe emerges, everything is possible, and this implies that "everything exists" in the sense of possibility. Some possibilities are self-inconsistent and therefore ontological dead ends; they extinguish themselves in the very attempt to emerge into actuality. But other possibilities are self-consistent and potentially self-configuring by internally defined evolutionary processes. That is, they predicate their own emergence according to their own internal logics, providing their own means and answering their own "hows". These possibilities, which are completely self-contained not only with respect to how, what, and when, but why, have a common structure called SCSPL (Self-Configuring Self-Processing Language). An SCSPL answers its own "why?" question with something called teleology; where SCSPL is "God" to whatever exists within it, teleology amounts to the "Will of God".

Q: Is there a reason for reality to exist? Specifically, some mathematical proof that would prove that a reality must exist? This would of course lead in to the more common type of questions, like "Does *this* reality exist?" Perhaps there's a mathematical or logical proof somewhere that shows that *something* must exist (reality by default), or that total-non-existence can't exist by it's very definition. - Bill

A: See the above response to Celia.

Q
: I think I got clued in by an old Alan Watts text that said (I think) "If you can agree that you are not separated from reality, then you must agree that your 'self'-awareness is also reality's awareness of itself." This is of course continued to "if God exists and cannot be separated from reality, then your awareness is also his awareness of himself, etc etc". I think this approximates some of what you have said, but doesn't require the upper level math(!). - Bill

A: If Watts said these things, then he anticipated the CTMU (loosely speaking, of course). But whereas Watts used conditional (if...then) formulations, similar statements are unconditionally supported by certain elements of mathematical structure that he omitted.

Q: Given my own self-awareness and inability to separate from reality, *I* have no doubt that this reality *does* exist (the proof is in the pudding). So while I do not need "proof" that there is a reality, that I am part of that reality, and that my awareness is reality's awareness of itself - I do not know WHY all of this stuff exists (myself included).

If there *is* a reason that reality MUST exist, then that would also be the reason that *I* exist. Which is probably what I am really wondering. Is the answer that giving myself a reason to exist is the reason for my existence? - Bill

A: The first part of your "why" question is answered at the end of the above response to Celia. Since the meaning of life is a topic that has often been claimed by religion, we'll attempt to answer the second part with a bit of CTMU-style "logical theology".

Within each SCSPL system, subsystems sharing critical aspects of global structure will also manifest the self-configuration imperative of their inclusive SCSPL; that is, they exist for the purpose of self-actualization or self-configuration, and in self-configuring, contribute to the Self-configuration of the SCSPL as a whole. Human beings are such subsystems. The "purpose" of their lives, and the "meaning" of their existences, is therefore to self-actualize in a way consistent with global Self-actualization or teleology...i.e., in a way that maximizes global utility, including the utility of their fellow subsystems. Their existential justification is to help the universe, AKA God, express its nature in a positive and Self-beneficial way.

If they do so, then their "souls", or relationships to the overall System ("God"), attain a state of grace and partake of Systemic timelessness ("life eternal"). If, on the other hand, they do not - if they give themselves over to habitual selfishness at the expense of others and the future of their species - then they are teleologically devalued and must repair their connections with the System in order to remain a viable part of it. And if they do even worse, intentionally scarring the teleological ledger with a massive net loss of global utility, then unless they pursue redemption with such sincerety that their intense desire for forgiveness literally purges their souls, they face spiritual interdiction for the sake of teleological integrity.

Such is the economy of human existence. Much of what we have been taught by organized religions is based on the illogical literalization of metaphorical aspects of their respective doctrines. But this much of it is true: we can attain a state of grace; we can draw near to God and partake of His eternal nature; we can fall from God's grace; we can lose our souls for doing evil. In all cases, we are unequivocally answerable to the System that grants and sustains our existence, and doing right by that System and its contents, including other subsystems like ourselves, is why we exist. Sometimes, "doing right" simply means making the best of a bad situation without needlessly propagating one's own misfortune to others; the necessary sufferance and nonpropagation of personal misfortune is also a source of grace. Further deontological insight requires an analysis of teleology and the extraction of its ethical implications.

Now for a couple of qualifiers. Because we are free, the teleologically consistent meaning of our lives is to some extent ours to choose, and is thus partially invested in the search for meaning itself. So the answer to the last part of your question is "yes, determining the details of your specific teleologically-consistent reason to exist is part of the reason for your existence". Secondly, because God is the cosmos and the human mind is a microcosm, we are to some extent our own judges. But this doesn't mean that we can summarily pardon ourselves for all of our sins; it simply means that we help to determine the system according to whose intrinsic criteria our value is ultimately determined. It is important for each of us to accept both of these ethical responsibilities.
 
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Noxot

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now for a trading of thoughts from this video

in the comments section:

it depends on what you mean by jesus.png
 
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mozo41

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It would be elementary to conclude that we are all part of the whole or GOD having one son/soul who we all are ... time being but a perception of a beginning and end and therefor needful oppositions for comparison which is not separate from self awareness in relation to thought/reasoning which be our consciousness/soul ... the language of which is measurement/judgement .... we are being defined to our selves both individually and collectively in this moment by a gendering/separation/division/scattering or to say this another way we are being defined by who we are not in relation to who we perceive ourselves to be by our flesh/five senses ..... a measurement within measurement

we are life being spirit which gives light/life to our soul which mirrors this light/life back which be a measuring without measurement ...


everything comes from GOD our Father, when we try define ourselves by what came out we fall short seeing this be a akin to measuring the immeasurable by the measurable ( albeit this not out of order seeing this points us in the right direction, there being no other )

The absolute defines the absolutes within it :)

to quote a dear friend

"Evolution is the a/effect life has on matter"

I have found that to measure such a statement and understand it to the degree one sees from is one thing, but to measure out such a statement is something quiet different...

I find it quiet telling that GOD destroyed the first world as there be much evidence to suggest/conclude they had defined GOD by His creation ....
 
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mozo41

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"The universe can be described as a cybernetic system in which freedom and constraint are counterbalanced. The constraints function as structure; thus, the laws of physics are constraints which define the structure of spacetime"

not attempting to nail anything down but merely stressing my humble opinion on the matter ( pun not intended :) )

the creation being controlled by its design and therefor conforms to the pattern set by its designer has no e/affect on that which it came out from ... space/time being a perception of separation which be a finite which defines the infinite and this proses/time being itself finite ... I fail to see how the laws of physics defined as constraints act as a counterbalance to freedom seeing freedom is ( a being) without constraint ...

to use another "stolen" one liner :D

"it takes two points of reference to get somewhere, but to get there you must leave the two"

I find it somewhat amusing that we always leave ourselves/GOD out of equations and then see things in a binary logic ... I asked my son the other day ... what has more power you or the sun ... he pondered the matter deeply and could not drew an answer so I asked him ... can the sun see you which he answered no ... so I asked him again which has more power the sun or you ... his face lit up as he answered me ( I am )
 
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FanthatSpark

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Therein (post #1969) what is time in thought? To write that post out is time. Yet, that and further thought that may take a book of sons to manifest a creative, moment, in a construct of words.

God consciousness, imagination are terms of defining ethereal that has no time in measurement to the size of the creative moment imho.
 
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Noxot

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something measured has no life within it ....

if I wanted to be disagreeable with you I would say "it depends on what you mean by measured". I guess the "within it" makes it trickier to disagree.

measured and life seem like the same thing to me. I took a measurement but it was from within.

just trying to test the axioms. if they can't hold up then they deserve to die, which would be to give them true life. but if this all comes from the soul then what am I trying to test?

how can the soul state the truth with mere words and axioms? it's some kind of miracle. it must be that the most fundamental reality is mind. have I now killed the truth by saying this? I don't know. I can't even separate freedom from mind, and certainly not love or wisdom. if you say "bliss" well, that appears to suppose mind as well.

but some try to make a separation between mind and this other thing they keep saying is real. is it because i'm a mind that i can't know something greater than me? I would say that what I came out of and never left is the way it is because I want it to be. I don't think anyone could say what is beyond mind because there is nothing beyond mind. someone prove me wrong.

after a while you just shrug and see that they will see later. words are a fun game and so is art, time, visions, and all the other spirit of spirit. things are ordered so well because they were ordered so well and it's in our universe where we would marvel at what is quite easy to achieve. "God mind" yeah that sounds right.

the rejection of something is just as important as it's acceptance.
 
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Noxot

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I know that the video above says all of what I was again trying to say here as I stumble around and answer something I don't fully grasp and that has always been somewhat dark to me - the first chapter of genesis. a guy asked me about the meaning of evening and morning if the days do not refer to days that God made the world in and so i tried best I can to give a spiritual understanding of things which I claimed is the main purpose of that book, rather than it describing a historical scientific account of how God made the universe.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



the quick answer is in this color, scroll down.


there is more hidden wisdom than revealed in the bible and it's hard to speak about what i want to say because so many things are being said. I'm trying to find a way to express this simple part that you ask about. it's hard for me. i'm going to ramble best I can. it's not like I fully grasp the Nature of the Trinity and this is what it's ultimately about, though I understand that the Trinity is how God acts within himself to create and to commune with himself. remember that all things are inside of God, there is no where to be but God because only he IS... in the ultimate sense of the meaning of reality. but he afforded an space for creation to be within himself... as the jews say, God empties himself in order to create.

the creation myth trys to sum up reality and vaguely describes something that the original Word, that created the universe, is the original image of. and so it is a revelation of God from the second or the soul rather than the first or spirit because the soul is wedded to the spirit and the soul is like the woman of the spirit who is the man. the souls nature is feminine because when God takes the woman out of man from his rib, it shows the spirit is the macro reality and the soul is the micro reality even though they are the same adam before God put him in a slumber. so in the heavenly marriage the woman and man are reunited which is like a symbol of the universe becoming fully conscious again and its purpose for going to sleep ( the universe in it's current state) was to dream of it's perfect counterpart (we being conscious creatures and the universe at large being fundamentally proto-consciousnesses).

Gen 1:1-5 (YLT)
In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth-- the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters, and God saith, `Let light be;' and light is. And God seeth the light that it is good, and God separateth between the light and the darkness, and God calleth to the light `Day,' and to the darkness He hath called `Night;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning--day one.


this entire chapter seems to be about the soul being made in the image of God who is a Trinity. the first letter of the bible is a beth. that is the 2nd letter. it means house. the soul is Gods temple/home. also of note, the Son of God is the second person of the Trinity.

some dualities in here that are unified to make a whole are:
heavens and earth
waste and void
light and darkness
day and night
evening and morning


the Father and the Son go together and that is the kingdom of God which is the third person called the Holy Spirit. two always imply a third if they are in union.

there is not a heavens apart from an earth, they imply one another.

waste and void defines what the earth was so that is another 3.

light and dark go together as well. God calls the light good, and it is the symbol of the Sons divinity, though the darkness is too the Son but the darkness expresses the freedom of the humanity of Jesus rather than the freedom of the divinity (light) of Jesus. in Christ humanity is perfected but in the process of the development of the soul there is a duality until God saves us and completes us and we freely go to him. so God called the light out and called it good but does not do such with the darkness for this reason that will follow... for though God has command of the light he can not dominate the darkness and the Son too though freely picking God in his divinity seeing that he is called by God and then named good and is thus already one with his Father seeing that they are both light... the darkness must also freely pick God with the darkness part of his nature which is humanity and creation and of which is totally other than the nature of God. and yet in the Son those two are in that most profound and perfected state and the entire process of the creation of our soul and of all of reality is inside of this mystery that the Trinity is having.

so in each of us there is a part that God calls and that answers to God but we as darkness must also cast ourselves to God fully for though God gave us those divine potentials to be his child, which the light is a symbol of the divine seed, that darkness is our own freedom that must also freely give itself to God, it is the hope of God when he said "our whole eye should be single" and that the seed of light fill the fullness of the darkness least we remain separated from God and cut off from that higher revelation of Gods light that is in us, so it is not good to remain separated from the darkness and originally the light and darkness were one.

so the light is like a tree of life and if it sprouts in the darkness then the darkness too performs it's proper place but if this dark ground of our freedom does not have a light sprout up and grown to God then it remains darkness and God does not call us, for we have not given ear and therefore light does not go out, but remains hidden. and yet in the calling out of light from darkness, the darkness is not annihilated but it performs it's own actions in relation to the light because the Son of God is fully human and fully God and this is his nature forever.

or another way of looking at the darkness and light is that the darkness is Gods other but the power of the holy spirit overshadows this mary the virgin and this darkness called mary the virgin gives birth to the light. so Gods wholly other is that which God uses to give birth to his Son and the father is like the son being a blinding light and the son like the father, being a light. yet the Father is always greater than or transcended to the Son because he is the Father of the Son but in that union they have always had, they gave birth to themselves. for the son reveals the father and the father reveals the son.

day and night make a total day and they seem like opposites but then further it is said

"evening and morning the first day"... and evening and morning imply either an going down of the sun when light turns into darkness and of a coming up of the sun which is darkness turning into light. and this signifies the profound union of what at first would appear to be a separation. it is both a separation and a union, it is both because of the preservation of the mystery of the Trinity.... for the yin and yang have doors in one another and flow into one another.

for the 6 days it is said "evening and morning the X day" because at the end of each day of creation it is complete and whole in itself though at the first it appears to be a duality/seperation. yet evening and morning are darkness and light together.


thats the best i can do for now, sorry.
 
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mozo41

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"if I wanted to be disagreeable with you I would say "it depends on what you mean by measured". I guess the "within it" makes it trickier to disagree"

great observation :oldthumbsup: having read what I wrote I saw this to and edited the "with" onto the "in" ... my thought being there can not be life ( as something existing in/of itself ) if it is caught between the boundaries of having a beginning and an end

My understanding of this "trinity" or these three that testify as one ... being our spirit, soul and flesh is but a means of teaching ( raising up ) through separation-division for reason of coming to a knowledge of this truth/life we are and therefor a necessity whilst we walk in the womb of our mother ...
 
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