Thoughts ...

[mozo41]

another point of interest is that when the body of Jesus was laid in the tomb his hands covering his modesty, it was his left hand which covered his right hand

 

[Noxot]

woman is said to be made in the image of man because the Son of God is both fully human and fully God.

 

[mozo41]

(man)kind is both male and female seeing both genders have a soul and spirit
( albeit not separate in truth ) women/soul came out from mankind which be a separation by perception for reason of comparison so one can come to a knowledge of who they are ...

or as our dear friend put it


"there is no gender in consciousness but gender explains consciousness "

 

[mozo41]

it is the two thieves which hold aloft our perception which be neither here nor there

 

[Noxot]

all I got is

"robed" becomes "robbed" if you add unto the word an extra b

 

[Noxot]

I just wanted to dump this here since I decided not to say it in other parts to other people.

why are you so fearful to have the correct knowledge or why do you feel it necessary to justify your doctrinal beliefs? how is what you are doing any different then all the other christians/religious/non-religious who claim to have the truth and who make war one with another about what is true?

I know that humans have an instinct to cling to what they see as true and that often the very thing that helps them unite is also the thing that makes them hate people that are not like they are.

so what is God going to do to us if we believe the trinity or don't or why exactly does it matter to have correct factual knowledge of the scriptures rather than to live in the spirit of Christ who is the truth? what i'm trying to say is that chiefly God is the truth and only secondarily do doctrines mean anything at all and if you are not in the spirit of the truth then facts are worthless.

humans do not understand the reality of spirit at all and this is why they think truth is what it is. they are lost in an objective world and have not seen any greater truths to reality. they only believe in facts because they don't know that God is the foundation of reality. they wish to believe God is real, so they think that the facts in the bible are true but they don't recognize the the Spirit of God is alive and blows where he wants.

why do most humans think that truth is evidence and facts only rather than right living according to high standards and principles of love and wisdom and all such things that God is shown to be? because the god of this world would be cast out if we lived in the truth rather than just believed it.

Jesus said that his Father is greater than all and himself and Jesus said that he was the Word of God. so since you know this I was wondering why you put so much emphasis on factual knowledge about correct doctrines if truth is in reality a spirit as it is often said to be in the bible?

I think that many humans in our world have no understanding about the reality of spirit. I think that most modern humans have forgotten that truth is deeper than mere facts.

facts are important and having false information is not good but what good does it do you whether you believe the trinity is or is not factual knowledge? what harms will happen to me if I believe the trinity? what good things will happen to me if I believe what you say?

why do so many Christians cling so much to "what is the correct doctrine?" I think it is because they have an easy job when they can just pick something that sounds good, they can feel good that they have the truth. it makes them feel correct because they get a tribal feeling of belonging. but Jesus was the truth because of the life he lived and the things he thought, not because he believed certain things about God even though all he did and think was true.

I think this goes for any religion. people pick something so they feel safe but real religion is about reality and not merely thinking and holding beliefs about it. so many people in religions just do what they do because it makes them feel safe, not because they get it. and worse of all is when they believe their religions tell them to act evil. God is a powerful driving force to justify evil actions to those who don't know the truth.

 

[Noxot]

again I said something that i decided not to post to others so I will post it here.

as far as I can tell humans are very confused about reality and truth. they tend to stick with facts and evidence because fundamentally, conscious or not, the only real thing to them is this objective world. they have not discovered the other world, they have not experienced for themselves this place called "spirit" even though it is always with us since it is fundamental to reality.

there are more meaningful ideas of what truth is that have to do with acting in the world well. facts are so popular in part due to the rising popularity of science and it almost always comes with philosophical presuppositions about reality since we humans don't know everything. evidence is good because correct information means we can attempt to correctly judge a thing. the idea of evidence is usually further invested into atheistic metaphysical beliefs about what reality is based on their understanding and experience of the world. they don't accept some things by default because they don't believe they are real and have not experienced them enough for themselves. often if they did expeirnce them for themselves they would reject them because it does not fit into their total world view of reality. other times they do accept them and so they change.

truth as right living is closer to the reality of spirit than is mere factual knowledge of correct dogmas which no man can understand anyways unless he is awake and has fellowship with God.

 

[Noxot]

I got triggered by some kind of poltical post... did not wanna say anything there but will dump my thoughts here cause this is the thoughts thread. i'm just trying to figure things out.

people are not very capable of caring about others if those people live across a giant ocean because that is not how humans are designed to be. sin is in some way creature-finitude and ignorance or mechanical limited behaviorally existence. humans have a mind and a heart and when they don't use it well they are going to lack the very things they need in order to exist well. multiply that by billions and mix it with all the goodness in people too and you have the world you have. evil is so utterly worthless and only puts more of a burden on goodness.

it's easy to endlessly say "this politician is doing that right or wrong". it completely takes away our responsibility and puts it into the hands of people that are going to force others to do things that some people think are right or good. why would you want to bare the whole weight of a burden when you know that so many things would be against you after you decided to think things through and came to such conclusions? and besides how could you possibly know what each individual person needs, are they some kind of mentally disabled helpless drooling baby? why do people not want to take responsibility for their own actions in the world? and why do we think that no one is going to help those in need but by putting a burden upon and forcing everyone into a burden? taking away a persons responsibility for themselves and those they say they love is one of the worse possible things you can do to a human being.

most of us are very ignorant when it comes to why we have what we have and we certainly don't want things to change because change would mean possible suffering for us and what we have seems like a stable enough system compared to what could be if so many changes occur.

 

[Inspired 1]

again I said something that i decided not to post to others so I will post it here.

as far as I can tell humans are very confused about reality and truth. they tend to stick with facts and evidence because fundamentally, conscious or not, the only real thing to them is this objective world. they have not discovered the other world, they have not experienced for themselves this place called "spirit" even though it is always with us since it is fundamental to reality.

there are more meaningful ideas of what truth is that have to do with acting in the world well. facts are so popular in part due to the rising popularity of science and it almost always comes with philosophical presuppositions about reality since we humans don't know everything. evidence is good because correct information means we can attempt to correctly judge a thing. the idea of evidence is usually further invested into atheistic metaphysical beliefs about what reality is based on their understanding and experience of the world. they don't accept some things by default because they don't believe they are real and have not experienced them enough for themselves. often if they did expeirnce them for themselves they would reject them because it does not fit into their total world view of reality. other times they do accept them and so they change.

truth as right living is closer to the reality of spirit than is mere factual knowledge of correct dogmas which no man can understand anyways unless he is awake and has fellowship with God.

Agree, and yet in a dark time, I was told to follow the evidence as it always leads to the truth and evidence does not lie, though someone speaking can. There are many truths and probably most things are true to one extent or the other, yet there is one truth for me that leads back to the source, which is spirit. So guess, I am learning to not care whether I am right or wrong, but instead being pure. If the pure love that I behold is that answer then what can come against it?

 

[Aseyesee]

... why do so many Christians cling so much to "what is the correct doctrine?"

Doctrine and perception are inseparable; like the blood of the vine, it's a narrative we drink of, a well we draw from, which goes through its process just as a seed does )all things being relative to each other).

More often then not we drink of another's well and not our own, having not dug deep enough to find the waters freely given. Here doctrine becomes no less an issue of blood then it was when the Pharisees questioned Jesus over where he got his.

Doctrine is no less common to man then sin is.

God causes us to wander, or to fall into a deep sleep when it is a truth less than us, or something that doesn't flow out of us.

 

[Inspired 1]

Doctrine and perception are inseparable; like the blood of the vine, it's a narrative we drink of, a well we draw from, which goes through its process just as a seed does )all things being relative to each other).

More often then not we drink of another's well and not our own, having not dug deep enough to find the waters freely given. Here doctrine becomes no less an issue of blood then it was when the Pharisees questioned Jesus over where he got his.

Doctrine is no less common to man then sin is.

God causes us to wander, or to fall into a deep sleep when it is a truth less than us, or something that doesn't flow out of us.

I had to stop and think about some things of the late, and when we have a river flowing then why are we not drinking from that, as it is always fresh, instead of drinking from a well, which is something that man has dug, yet God gives freely. So I guess we have a choice between living water flowing and a well for healthy/sound doctrine/teaching. So I have noticed, in my encounter with some one a few days back, that the best way to end a debate etc, is just to agree with them, and then it shuts things down, and takes the argument out of them, otherwise I am picking a side which leads to war, and is of the second heaven, instead of going above it, where there is no war or sides to pick.

 

[Aseyesee]

I had to stop and think about some things of the late, and when we have a river flowing then why are we not drinking from that, as it is always fresh, instead of drinking from a well, which is something that man has dug, yet God gives freely. So I guess we have a choice between living water flowing and a well for healthy/sound doctrine/teaching. So I have noticed, in my encounter with some one a few days back, that the best way to end a debate etc, is just to agree with them, and then it shuts things down, and takes the argument out of them, otherwise I am picking a side which leads to war, and is of the second heaven, instead of going above it, where there is no war or sides to pick.

The digging of the well is process ...

This symbolism begins with God calling light good, just as agreeing with your adversary ends it (the strife), which is twofold, a within and a without..

God appears to be Israel's adversary in the wilderness, yet professes he has found no iniguiity in Jacob.

From one view, Jacob was a thief who stole a birthright, inheriting the blessing by deception, which drove him back to Abraham's kindred) no less then what Abel was to Cain; yet Christ was crucified from the foundation of the earth, which is the process we see, until for the individual the truth of self hidden is found, and this as where we are.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

when we have a river flowing then why are we not drinking from that, as it is always fresh, instead of drinking from a well, which is something that man has dug, yet God gives freely. So I guess we have a choice between living water flowing and a well for healthy/sound doctrine/teaching.

there is no war or sides to pick.

Beautiful!

Everything is as it should be, in perfect order...

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper."

"And wherever the river goes, every living creature that swarms will live, and there will be very many fish. For this water goes there, that the waters of the sea may become fresh; so everything will live where the river goes."

 

[Inspired 1]

The digging of the well is process ...

This symbolism begins with God calling light good, just as agreeing with your adversary ends it (the strife), which is twofold, a within and a without..

God appears to be Israel's adversary in the wilderness, yet professes he has found no iniguiity in Jacob.

From one view, Jacob was a thief who stole a birthright, inheriting the blessing by deception, which drove him back to Abraham's kindred) no less then what Abel was to Cain; yet Christ was crucified from the foundation of the earth, which is the process we see, until for the individual the truth of self hidden is found, and this as where we are.

Yeah-- calling those things that are as thought they are not. Even Paul who participated in the killing in one way and was going after more to persecute them, said in the end that he was innocent? So all are righteous.

 

[Aseyesee]

When we reason with God we become clean ...

 

[Inspired 1]

When we reason with God we become clean ...

I reckon as otherwise we could serve swine/unclean things to the King-- yet supposedly all things are made clean...

 

[Aseyesee]

I reckon as otherwise we could serve swine/unclean things to the King-- yet supposedly all things are made clean...

God is an absolute, and this absolute is what he fills all things with.

 

[Inspired 1]

God is an absolute, and this absolute is what he fills all things with.

If all things are clean then why worry about what somebody else thinks or says-- then we limit them, and yet we are to be unlimited and unconditional with etcc. Thee seems to be a geometric shape with words, in that a change of one word as stated above can make a difference as to what is being conveyed to either curse or bless someone.. Sacred word geometry..absolute/pure/perfect...

 

[Aseyesee]

If all things are clean then why worry about what somebody else thinks or says-- then we limit them, and yet we are to be unlimited and unconditional with etcc. Thee seems to be a geometric shape with words, in that a change of one word as stated above can make a difference as to what is being conveyed to either curse or bless someone.. Sacred word geometry..absolute/pure/perfect...

To be taught of the father is an inward truth for everybody, bar none; and to limit them is to number them ... (in bible vernacular).

It's what comes out of us (specifically the soul) that makes us clean or not clean, no less then the shame of Adam.

One thing I adhere to is that we cannot add to ourselves by thought, which in the same sense, we cannot take away from ourselves by thought either, though it be the content of the table we eat from, which (in one form) is the truth of the field in relationship to harvest.

 

[mozo41]

we tend to execute those who's truth is not ours ...