Thoughts on faith or works based salvation?

[friend of]

The ten commandments were given for the sole purpose of confirming the standard that God requires and the fact that nobody can keep them perfectly hence the need for Jesus to keep them perfectly on an individuals behalf. Just because we cannot keep them perfectly doesn't mean we shouldn't try to keep them perfectly

You need to keep the ten commandments perfectly or you will not enter God's presence. As you can't, you have had it my friend. Take Jesus Christ out of the church and all you have the church of satan

You know, I did a quick count of the 10 Commandments just now to see how well I'm holding up to the Law standard. I feel like I'm doing pretty darn good! But... that first Commandment, to love God with all of my heart mind soul strength? I don't think I measure up to that. Does any Christian truly love God as much as He deserves to be loved? I really don't think so, for if we did, we would certainly live a life as sinless as Christ Himself. Obeying the first great commandment is to obey Christ's ministry flawlessly, and I believe we all fall short on that front.

Blessings

 

[sandman]

Not unless you think John Darby is God. His interpretation was unheard for most of the history of the Church.

People are always referencing Darby regarding the “gathering together unto Him” (rapture), but this is the first time I have heard him in this reference …
I’ve never read anything from the person ….so it would be impossible to make Darby my deity. My frame of reference comes strictly from the Word of God... which I use to interpret itself.
If you have biblical proof to refute what I stated ...say on.

 

[Brihaha]

If we understand this distinction then everything in Scripture falls into place. James is not teaching that we must measure up to God and earn our place before God through good works, to be righteous before God by our works. Instead, see how St. James instead teaches how we are to relate to our neighbors. James is not speaking Gospel, how we are reconciled to God; but Law, and the proper place of the Law in our active Christian lives: how we are made right with our fellow human beings made in God's image.

-CryptoLutheran

You make an excellent point about relating to our peers in terms of law rather than scriptures. This social aspect between people took quite a hit during the pandemic. I know I turned to my bible since social activities were decreased. And I can admit I occasionally relate to others in the hopes of being seen as righteous in God's eyes. It's nice to have wisdom from others with more experience to learn from. It's a shame we can't have apostles here in which to be taught in person. Yet people would ignore them now as they did nearly 2,000 years ago.

But since being blessed with faith I want to obey the commandments. I want to be kind to everyone. If we improve our relationship with our neighbors and show them love, doesn't this simultaneously validate the grace we have been given from God? Being a better person and improving myself is exciting. I know this is a gift from God and I truly want to maximize my spiritual potential.

What's more exciting to my imagination is God's plan for eternity. We will be part of something so special I can't even fathom the possibilities lol. At nearly 55 years old, it is fun to feel excited about something again.

 

[Jasper10]

No amount of good works will get you into heaven if you are doing those works and not accepting that Jesus kept the laws perfectly for you because you couldn’t.You should be doing good works AFTER this realisation in gratification otherwise you are rejecting the salvation on offer.God does it all.You are incapable of doing anything to earn salvation.Nothing.

 

[Soyeong]

A sacrifice was given before he did enter.

You cannot enter Gods presence on your own because you are imperfect because you have not kept the laws perfectly.

Don‘t dismiss the whole point of the gospels.

You have completely misunderstood the bibles teachings.

The point remains that he was in the presence of God even though he did not live a sinless life. Likewise, Moses is another example of someone who was in the presence of God who did not live a sinless life. What we do on our own does not depend on anyone else, so you are incorrect to consider depending on the laws that God instructed to be something that we do on our own. I said nothing about dismissing the whole point of the Gospels. It is one thing for you to baselessly claim that I have completely misunderstood the teachings of the Bible and quite another thing for you to show that is the case. I asked you to quote from where the Bible says what you claimed, which you refused to do, so for as long as you continue to refuse to do that, you are admitting through your actions that your claims were mistaken and that you are the one who has misunderstood the Bible, even if you won't admit that through your words, and your actions speak louder than your words.

 

[Jasper10]

The point remains that he was in the presence of God even though he did not live a sinless life. Likewise, Moses is another example of someone who was in the presence of God who did not live a sinless life. What we do on our own does not depend on anyone else, so you are incorrect to consider depending on the laws that God instructed to be something that we do on our own. I said nothing about dismissing the whole point of the Gospels. It is one thing for you to baselessly claim that I have completely misunderstood the teachings of the Bible and quite another thing for you to show that is the case. I asked you to quote from where the Bible says what you claimed, which you refused to do, so for as long as you continue to refuse to do that, you are admitting through your actions that your claims were mistaken and that you are the one who has misunderstood the Bible, even if you won't admit that through your words, and your actions speak louder than your words.

I have not misunderstood the bible at all.Only perfection can enter Gods presence.Perfection means that you have kept Gods laws perfectly.You haven’t, neither have I and neither has anyone else.You and I have therefore had it.It’s all over for us all.

You can try as hard as you want by doing good works or no works at all if that is your want.It changes absolutely nothing at all

How will you get into heaven if you are imperfect? It’s ok saying you have faith in Jesus but what do you have faith in him for?

What has he done for you?

 

[Jasper10]

Something or Nothing?

 

[ralliann]

There are some passages which emphasise that you only need to accept christ to go to heaven, whereas others emphasise that works are needed also to go to heaven.

I have heard that once you accept christ, he will work in you so that you perform the works needed to go to heaven. So technically both but accepting christ alone is what causes the works to happen.

However, there are people that accept christ but then end up falling off the path, some even dying before they stop backsliding and havent done any works.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

Works of faith vs works of law.

 

[Soyeong]

I have not misunderstood the bible at all.Only perfection can enter Gods presence.Perfection means that you have kept Gods laws perfectly.You haven’t, neither have I and neither has anyone else.You and I have therefore had it.It’s all over for us all.

You can try as hard as you want by doing good works or no works at all if that is your want.It changes absolutely nothing at all

How will you get into heaven if you are imperfect? It’s ok saying you have faith in Jesus but what do you have faith in him for?

What has he done for you?

If it were true that you have not misunderstood the Bible, then you would have not have this great difficulty of quoting where the Bible says what you claim, but you continue to refuse to quote the Bible precisely because it does not say what you claim, and you refuse to be informed by where the Bible says the opposite of what you claim. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven and that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, but said nothing to suggest that there is no one who does the will of the Father or that he considers everyone to be workers of lawlessness. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to think that faith in God's word made flesh is the way to heaven while faith in God's word is not. Jesus spent his ministry teaching us to obey God's law by word and by example and he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works in obedience to it (Titus 2:14).

No amount of good works will get you into heaven if you are doing those works and not accepting that Jesus kept the laws perfectly for you because you couldn’t.You should be doing good works AFTER this realisation in gratification otherwise you are rejecting the salvation on offer.God does it all.You are incapable of doing anything to earn salvation.Nothing.

The connection between doing the will of the Father and entering the Kingdom of Heaven has nothing to do with the amount of works that we do, but with the fact that it is only those who do the will of the Father who have faith in Him to rightly guide us, and it is by that same faith that we enter. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so obeying God's word is the way to accept him. We don't need to accept that Jesus kept God's law perfectly for us because you refuse to quote where the Bible says that, so it is something that you've made up. God's law came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so it did not require perfect obedience.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so it is neither the case that our salvation is the result of our obedience nor is our obedience the result of our salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to do these works is itself the content of His gift of salvation, and this training absolutely involves our participation, which has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation.

 

[Jasper10]

Works of faith…Works of Law…..Works…Works….Works!!!

What has Jesus Christ done for you personally?

 

[Jasper10]

If it were true that you have not misunderstood the Bible, then you would have not have this great difficulty of quoting where the Bible says what you claim, but you continue to refuse to quote the Bible precisely because it does not say what you claim, and you refuse to be informed by where the Bible says the opposite of what you claim. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven and that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, but said nothing to suggest that there is no one who does the will of the Father or that he considers everyone to be workers of lawlessness. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to think that faith in God's word made flesh is the way to heaven while faith in God's word is not. Jesus spent his ministry teaching us to obey God's law by word and by example and he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works in obedience to it (Titus 2:14).



The connection between doing the will of the Father and entering the Kingdom of Heaven has nothing to do with the amount of works that we do, but with the fact that it is only those who do the will of the Father who have faith in Him to rightly guide us, and it is by that same faith that we enter. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so obeying God's word is the way to accept him. We don't need to accept that Jesus kept God's law perfectly for us because you refuse to quote where the Bible says that, so it is something that you've made up. God's law came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so it did not require perfect obedience.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so it is neither the case that our salvation is the result of our obedience nor is our obedience the result of our salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to do these works is itself the content of His gift of salvation, and this training absolutely involves our participation, which has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation.

So you don’t think Christ has done anything for you personally then.He hasn’t taken the punishment for all your sins and you think that you can sneak into heaven over the fence and not enter in by the correct route. Many do think that.You are not saved then.As suspected.So Matthew 22:11-13 is your fate then.

 

[Soyeong]

So you don’t think Christ has done anything for you personally then.He hasn’t taken the punishment for all your sins and you think that you can sneak into heaven over the fence and not enter in by the correct route. Many do think that.You are not saved then.As suspected.So Matthew 22:11-13 is your fate then.

I said:

"Jesus spent his ministry teaching us to obey God's law by word and by example and he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works in obedience to it (Titus 2:14)."

I said nothing about thinking that I can sneak into heaven over the fence and not enter in by correct route. Following God's word is the correct route and you have give no justification for thinking otherwise. In Revelation 19:8, the wedding clothes are the righteous deeds of the saints, so Matthew 22:11-13 is speaking against those who have no righteous deeds.

 

[Jasper10]

I said:

"Jesus spent his ministry teaching us to obey God's law by word and by example and he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works in obedience to it (Titus 2:14)."

I said nothing about thinking that I can sneak into heaven over the fence and not enter in by correct route. Following God's word is the correct route and you have give no justification for thinking otherwise. In Revelation 19:8, the wedding clothes are the righteous deeds of the saints, so Matthew 22:11-13 is speaking against those who have no righteous deeds.

If you followed Gods word you would do as it says.You definitely are not doing that.You are putting your own interpretations on it.

 

[Jasper10]

I know a few catholics that came to theire senses by God’s good grace.

Wow! the joy and utter relief and thankfulness to God that pours out of them.

You are lost my friend.Stop kidding yourself.

 

[Soyeong]

If you followed Gods word you would do as it says.You definitely are not doing that.You are putting your own interpretations on it.

In John 10, it does not deny that anyone follows God's word. Jesus spent his ministry teaching his people to obey God's law by word and by example, yet for some strange reason you think that following what he taught is going over the wall rather than through the gate.

 

[Jasper10]

In John 10, it does not deny that anyone follows God's word. Jesus spent his ministry teaching his people to obey God's law by word and by example, yet for some strange reason you think that following what he taught is going over the wall rather than through the gate.

How many times do you have to be told? You cannot keep the laws perfectly but they need to be kept perfectly on your behalf and put to your account so that your sins have been paid for.Just be thankful that Jesus did that for you because believe me you can’t do it because it is impossible for you to do it.Just accept with a genuine heart that he died for all your sins and then chill and be so so thankful.

 

[Soyeong]

How many times do you have to be told? You cannot keep the laws perfectly but they need to be kept perfectly on your behalf and put to your account so that your sins have been paid for.Just be thankful that Jesus did that for you because believe me you can’t do it because it is impossible for you to do it.Just accept with a genuine heart that he died for all your sins and then chill and be so so thankful.

The Bible does not say that we need to keep God's law perfectly or that we need someone to keep it perfectly on our behalf, so those are all things that you have made up full cloth, and I'm not interested in you telling me things that you have made up in your imagination, but am only interested in what the Bible says. In Titus 2:11-14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to accept what he accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

 

[Jasper10]

The Bible does not say that we need to keep God's law perfectly or that we need someone to keep it perfectly on our behalf, so those are all things that you have made up full cloth, and I'm not interested in you telling me things that you have made up in your imagination, but am only interested in what the Bible says. In Titus 2:11-14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to accept what he accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

The law was given to prove to you that you can’t keep it perfectly, that was it sole purpose.To prove to you that you are imperfect.

If you think imperfection is going to enter Gods presence you are gravely mistaken.

 

[Soyeong]

The law was given to prove to you that you can’t keep it perfectly, that was it sole purpose.To prove to you that you are imperfect.

Of course you are completely unable to quote where the Bible says that precisely because it is not something said in the Bible. I've supported what I've said by quoting from the Bible while you have refused to do that, so it is strange that you claim that I have misunderstood the Bible because what I've said is contrary to what you've made up. Earthly fathers know how to give rules to their children for their own good in order to teach them how to rightly live and this is that much more true of our Heavenly Father. It doesn't even make sense to think that God would give commands for the sole proving that we can't keep it perfectly. That would be just as pointless as commanding someone to jump to the moon for the sole purpose of proving that they can't do that. If that were the case, then it would have been better for God to not have given any commands in the first place.

 

[Jasper10]

Of course you are completely unable to quote where the Bible says that precisely because it is not something said in the Bible. I've supported what I've said by quoting from the Bible while you have refused to do that, so it is strange that you claim that I have misunderstood the Bible because what I've said is contrary to what you've made up. Earthly fathers know how to give rules to their children for their own good in order to teach them how to be blessed and this is that much more true of our Heavenly Father (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13). It doesn't even make sense to think that God would give commands for the sole proving that we can't keep it perfectly. That would be just as pointless as commanding someone to jump to the moon for the sole purpose of proving that they can't do that. If that were the case, then it would have been better for God to not have given any commands in the first place.

But you ain’t God are you? So why reject his plan for salvation.If he didn’t provide the law how would you know that you were a sinner In need of saving?

Read your bible and make proper sense of it.I suggest that you stop making it up to suit yourself and pray with a genuine heart that God will reveal what he actually means by what he says.